ShadowGator

I am new to the hobby and currently only have radios which came with my kits, all 4 channel variety...

I would like to plan ahead for a quality system. I have two EDF planes, a Haoye F-18 and a HET F-18, in my garage as future projects once I get better at flying. Eventually I would like to go to a bigger twin EDF F-18 from EJF or Yellow Aircraft so I can have retracts.

With those two planes in my garage, and a future plane down the road, in mind, which is the better way to go, a 6 channel 2.4ghz or 7 channel 2.4 ghz?

Also, I see somewhat of a trend for Spektrum, but I grew up with Futaba controls for my rc cars. Outside of looks, and a small price difference, is there any quality, customer support, or other issues that make one better than the other?

Thanks for the help!

Dave

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

Futaba or Spektrum, JR, one isn't really any better than the other. The more channels the better all things considered. With Futaba you can use a Campac module to add more planes to the radio's memory, nice feature. The DX7 has Model Match which is a good feature. It's really a matter of what fits your budget and has the most features that you want. Buy the best one you can afford.

carlosponti

My Feedback: (1)

I would say get 7 channel because the extra channels come in handy later on even though you dont need them now. this i am sure will spawn a long drawn out debate about the two. but in essence futaba is fhss and spectrum is dsss aside from that you wont notice much difference. even when it comes to bugs both have had them. I have a futaba but fly with people of spectrum. comfort is going to be a big key. programming features that you are comfortable with using is what i mean. I had JR 72 mhz stuff before , well still do, I am in the process of converting. features will draw you as well. some people seem to think the model match feature(spectrum) is just awesome but i like to share receivers between models. Both are going to have good customer service. Futaba initially had problems with some of their 6 and 7 channel radios where the guid that syncs radio to receiver were set at zero but that has been worked out. some are upset they cant put their receiver in 100 degree weather under a bubble canopy focusing heat on to the receiver. all that said 2.4 is where its going so bugs will get worked out and technologies will continue to improve on both companies systems.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The Spektrum is more of a first generation 2.4 system whereas the JR and Futaba are second generation so to speak. There's a difference in price also.

Don't forget to look at the Airtronics 8 channel.

js3862

My Feedback: (4)

How is Spektrum more first generation when they are in second generation release? DSRM2 < 2 being the key and they released the DX6 and DX7 prior to the Futaba 7C and JR's 2.4 kits if my reading has served me well. In any regard, and release dates aside, I have read nothing but good about the Spektrum system save the low voltage lockout issue which has been addressed.

The frustrating part for myself and many others it seems, is that where Futaba and Spektrum both have good features Futaba has the 'quality' brand recognition and Spektrum definitely seems to have some advantages in the price to value arena so you can never really make an apples to apples comparison. No matter what you do you always seem to be comparing apples to say peaches. For me the frustrating part has been Futaba's perceived lag in innovativeness with regard to value. Namely, Futaba while being quality minded doesn't let your 6 and 7 channel FASST radios work with 8 or more channel receivers where the Spektrum DSRM2 receivers at 6, 7, 9 channels and up are all supposed work with the DX6i and DX7 radios *PLUS* are cross compatible with JR DSRM2 radios. Did I also mention that Futaba won't make any downward compatibility guarantees concerning their 9+ channel radios (not modules) working with current receivers? Actually, they have a problem with telling anybody just about anything that hasn't hit an official press release. Not that I'm expecting them to give away the store but a nice, "don't worry sir any new devices in the FASST line will be backwards compatible because we've planned it out that way" would be a real bonus.

I personally have the 7C and haven't used it yet and am just about ready to return it due to the price and inflexibility of the 6 and 7 channel receivers. Yeah I know, I should have looked harder before I lept. The new R607FS is $100 for a 7 channel receiver, not horrible comparatively, but look at that in conjunction with the fact that since the R606FS is now discontinued the only six channel receiver currently available is the R616FFM for $60 which in and of itself isn't a horrible price either except for the fact that it uses Futaba's ridiculous micro connector (aka molex pico) and not a standard JST. So, you get the R616FFM and then you're either tied into Futaba servos, which are ok but they don't have any sub micro servos down at the 3 - 5 gram size, or you pay $6 a piece for micro plug leads from tower (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXGVD6&P=SM) to get your third party servos connected and there's another $24 to get your four channel plane working or you pay the additional $40 to use the R607FS. Plus why do I want to solder connectors onto perfectly good servos? Blah, I'm making myself more fed up with Futaba just writing this.

Each company's products seem to have their perks and their shortcomings but, even given the amount of R&D that Futaba is supposed to be putting into their products and some differing feature sets, I would have to say that Spektrum is out pacing them in both the number and usefulness of features and are definately winning in the heads not up their own butts arena by supporting standards and at least some level of compatibility with upgraded radio systems. Be it that they're in bed with JR or not it's nice to know that if you upgrade your radio your receivers can just follow you.

Just my 2 cents... ok it was more like 18 cents but now you have my take on it. Thanks for reading.

Jerry

superdave01

Been in the hobby for 28 years, always a Futaba guy till about 3 years ago...... JR all the way now.

With loyalty aside ALL 2.4 systems have had there problems....... I believe JR is past theres but i also believe Futaba 2.4. is relaible too.

Model match, price, features and price of recievers is why im JR now.

You can get a Spektrum DX6i with a 6 channel reciever for $150, I use a X9303 but use very few of its features and of 11 planes, 3 gliders and 3 helis i dont use more then 7 channels.

Dave

ShadowGator

Hmm, some great information guys, thanks! I think what I will have to really do is go get my hands on both at a hobby shop and just see which one I like the "feel" of best. I had a JR controller for an old gas plane I never got around to flying before for various reasons. Now with the electrics being so good, I want back in the hobby! Currently I have a bunch of the cheap controllers that come with various kits, but I want to get that one all around controller to use for my next generation (ie: non-trainers) of planes.

Flyfalcons

Nice first post Jerry. Unfortunately not terribly accurate but at least you did come out swinging.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I am happy with the 7c dedicated 2.4 system. I now have it on 4 planes and it meets my needs. My primary driver for this was the receiver size, it is very small and works great in my pylon planes, and is very small. Prior to that I was using PCM 9 channel receivers which were big, heavy, and expensive.

I hooked a plane up over the weekend with futaba, jr, and a hitec servo into the futaba R606FS receiver and it works fine. No special connections or soldering required.

I really wished they had come out with a 2.4 dedicated 9 or 10 channel transmitter rather than using a module though. Thankfully, the 7c has enough options to keep the pylon fleet in action.

1Eye

My Feedback: (2)

What? "So to speak," with the exception of the new 12-channel JR stuff aren't the Spektrum and JR 9- and 7-ch receivers essentially the same electronics? And the non dedicated 2.4 gig stuff (i.e., transmitter modules) among JR and Spektrum are the same ... ? Wrt Futaba, they have been doing spread spectrum in the industrial world for some time so, compared to JR and Spektrum I would have to agree Futaba is 2nd gen by comparison.

js3862

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks but, where would I have been inaccurate? If you're talking about the release dates I'll go dig them out if I have to but, the fact the the DX7 was out before the 7C really wasn't the main point of my post anyway. I did notice the flagrantly wrong use of the letter R as for some reason DS'R'M2 just looked right at 2:30 a.m. when I posted.

Other than those two items if there are any inacurracies in the rest of my post please point them out. I'd rather be wrong and educated about it than blissfully ignorant. For an example of the selection and innovation I referred to lets take a look at 6 and 7 channel receivers currently available from both Spektrum and Futaba:



6 Channel Receivers:

Spektrum

SPM6100 Microlite $49.99
Proprietary servos required = 0
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SPM6100
-
SPMAR6100E Microlite End-Pin $49.99
Proprietary servos required = 0
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...dID=SPMAR6100E
-
SPMAR6200 Ultralite $79.99
Proprietary servos required = 0
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SPMAR6200
-
SPM6300 Nanolite $59.99
Proprietary servos required = 0
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SPMAR6300

Futaba

R616FFM Micro Parkflyer $59.99
Proprietary servos required = 3-6 x $15 and up
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXUDS7&P=ML

R606FS - Discontinued Replaced by R607FS (see 7 Channel Receivers)
(although still available from retailers)
Discontinuation notice: http://2.4gigahertz.com/faq/faq-6ex-2_4ghz-q925.html


7 Channel Receivers:
(none requiring proprietary connectors)

Spektrum

SPM6070 $99.99
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SPM6070

Futaba

R607FS $95.99
Replacement for R606FS
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXRTS5&P=ML



6 Channel Receivers Total

Spektrum 4
Futaba 1

7 Channel Receivers Total

tie

So, as you can see, unless you want to use the Futaba micro connector pigtails at $6 a pop or buy their servos you are going to always spend at least an extra $20 on the receiver and up to an extra $50 when using a FASST 7 channel receiver over a Spektrum in a 6 channel application, assuming you can use the 7 channel Futaba in your application given its size (no I'm not saying it's big just not tiny). If you're putting a receiver in an ARF or PNP the extra cost of buying the Futaba servos might just make a difference if you already have servos or you don't want to replace the ones that came with the plane.

Then, go look at the 9 channel receivers that work with the DX6i and DX7 and all the JR equipment that will also use these receivers and you can see you have quite a few more options. Notice that I'm not saying Futaba sucks or their equipment isn't any good, on the contrary my argument is primarily from a value perspective. Capabilities for dollars I believe Spektrum has Futaba beaten on just about all counts that would be important to a person buying in the 6 or 7 channel market that might want to move up later.

If I'm wrong, educate me.

Thanks,

Jerry

dribbe

All Spektrum air systems on the market today use the same up to date 2.4 technology as JR.... DSM2.
The one air product that was gen 1 DSM (DX6) is discontinued from a sales standpoint.

David

js3862

My Feedback: (4)

By the way, I exchanged the 7C today for the DX7. As I drove away from the store I felt better just knowing it wasn't going to cost me $100 for a receiver every time I wanted to fly a 3 - 6 channel plane with standard servos.

Jerry

DougV

Yup, one of the reasons why I still own a DX7 is because of those small and cheap spektrum receivers which I'm using in my foamies.
I hope Futaba comes out with some small receivers soon

Everything else I fly FASST.

Doug.

Flyfalcons

Jerry, without quoting your entire post, the bit about 9+ channel Futaba transmitters not working with current receivers is incorrect.

js3862

My Feedback: (4)

I understand your reasoning but, given that line of thought Panasonic, Linksys, and Cisco would all be huge players in the RC world if they also decided to manufacture a 2.4 GHz radio given their experience in consumer, commercial and industrial markets with 2.4 GHz technologies. My point being just because you have experience with 2.4 GHz tech. doesn't mean that your application of it in RC will be better than someone else's. I don't think there is any definitive benchmark that has been established that shows there is any advantage of FHSS over DSSS or the underlying encoding but, I haven't gone looking for it. The fact that I haven't seen anyone discussing it makes me believe it doesn't exist. Nor have I seen anyone running around screaming about how either system is glitchy or has reliability problems so, the generation a particular manufacturer is at in their 2.4 GHz implementation is really a moot point unless there is also something to factually put 'their' version at a disadvantage.

js3862

My Feedback: (4)

The only reference I have seen to any Futaba transmitters above 7 channels using the 6 and 7 channel receivers is listed on http://2.4gigahertz.com/receivers/index.html at the bottom of the page and the only ones listed there are modules and not full radios. I spoke with a rep at Futaba/Hobbico who couldn't tell me whether there would be any downward compatability between the higher end FASST radios and the 6 and 7 channel receivers.

Now, I went tower's site and this is the information I found:

R606FS:

"This is the Futaba R606FS 2.4GHz FASST 6-Channel Park Flyer to Giant Scale Aircraft Receiver. Compatible with the Futaba 6EX, 12FG, 12Z and 14MZ 2.4GHz systems. NOT compatible with the Futaba 7U, 8U, 9C or 9Z systems."

R607FS:

"This is the Futaba R607FS 2.4GHz FASST 7-Channel Park Flyer to Giant Scale Aircraft Receiver. **Additional Technical Info Will Be Added When It Becomes Available.**"

R617FS:

No relevant information

R616FFM

"This is the Futaba R616FFM 2.4GHz FASST 6-Channel Receiver. Compatible with the following FASST transmitters; 6EX, 7C, and the following transmitter modules; TM7, TM8 (on 7 channel mode), TM10 (on 7 channel mode) and TM14 (on 7 channel mode)."

So, other than the R606FS (which is discontinued) the other three receivers Futaba currently has out (compatible with the 7C) do not specifically list other FASST transmitters as compatible, at least not on the tower site. I don't know they will work because there isn't anything that I have found on the Futaba or tower sites that says they will. That and the reps unwillingness to commit to their higher channel radios being downward compatible. If it turns out they are compatible, that would be sweet for those who buy the 10C, 12FG, 12Z or 14MZ. Theough I have come to the conclusion that you can't use the Futaba web site as a good source of information on compatibility concerning their own 2.4 GHz products.

There is a mistake I just caught with my last post in that I missed the R617FS is an additional 7 channel receiver that Futaba has and is $99.99 at tower.

Jerry

js3862

My Feedback: (4)

Have you had bad experiences with the Spektrums in larger planes?

Jerry

Flyfalcons

Jerry, all the Futaba FASST systems above the 7-channel range have 7-channel and multi-channel transmitting capability. There is a compatability chart on 2.4gigahertz.com. Also just because the higher end radios use modules does not mean they are not "full" 2.4 systems. That is a misconception based on information given to you by Spektrum, where using a module will increase response time versus their "native" systems. Futaba FASST systems do not have that issue with their modules. Trust me, I have a 9C and 14MZ with modules, no problems with receiver compatability.

DougV

[/quote]

Have you had bad experiences with the Spektrums in larger planes?

Jerry
[/quote]

Hi Jerry:

Yes...More than once, about a year ago; like many other pilots that I know, when Spektrum came out with the DX7 we jumped all over the new technology (waiting for Futaba[]) I had some lock-out issues using 6 volts batts, except one of the lock-outs was on a Avistar airplane using the battery (4.8) that came with the DX7, the other two Raptor 50 and a 60 size pattern ship using 6 volts 1900 mah batteries. (Of course, for some, it’s always the users fault.)

But the good thing is that I went and purchased a FASST 6EX and the lock-outs magically went away. All I did was change the receiver.

Now I own 2 7C’s, one TM-8 and some 72Mhz Futaba/JR Tx’s, I’m now debating between the 10C or the 12Fg so I can then sell the other radios.

All my airplanes (except 3 foamies) including 2 Jets are now on FASST (not one issue)

This is just base on my experience.

Regards,
Doug.

js3862

My Feedback: (4)

So did you ever determine what the cause of the problems were? Was it a bad radio or batch of receivers? Did Horizon have any answers?

Also, just curious, why do you own two 7Cs?

togatoga

My Feedback: (42)

I was deciding on getting the new JR12x or 9303 2.4 but am put off by the fact that there's 2 receivers to contend with and the additional wires. I have noticed that if any one of the wires to the satellite rx gets cutoff the whole system will fail.
I have decided to stick to converting my 12z and 14mz to 2.4 as having one receiver in a plane is bad enough let alone two or more!

daven

My Feedback: (1)

The 7c only has 10 model memory and I don't believe that is expandable via compac.

DougV

After the first lock-out, I sent the DX7/AR7000 to Horizon, they called me and said that they couldn’t find anything wrong with the system, but they went ahead and replaced the rx, that is the rx I used in the Raptor 50.

Two 7C’s; one Airplane one Heli. My hangar keeps growing!

Regards,
Doug.

js3862

My Feedback: (4)

Unless you have problems with wires being cut in mid flight I don't see the downside. If you had a cut wire I would want the system to not operate so that I didn't get in the air before finding out about it. Besides, they sell replacement wires and I wouldn't think you would be any more likely to cut a wire attached to the satellite than you would be to cut a servo wire. I'm not really in a position to defend the system because I just got it but, the satellite doesn't seem like a big deal to me for non park flyer size planes. In 72 MHz you have an antenna lead so it isn't like an extra wire (or a few wires in a little bundle) coming off of a receiver is a foreign concept.

As for the satellite receiver itself, I just picked up the DX7 and the satellite for the AR7000 is about the size of a postage stamp. Since the AR7000 is supposed to be for larger planes I wouldn't think the satellite should be that big of a deal to fit in. According to Spektrum the addition of the satellite is supposed to help in removing potential blind spots, that exist in all 2.4 GHz implementations, caused when the receiver is oriented parallel to the transmitter. This is because when you mount it you do so at a 90 degree angle from the primary receiver. Given the little bit of RF knowledge I have picked up working with wifi equipment for my work this configuration seems to make good sense as it's similar to the antenna setups we use for network connectivity.

If you're flying smaller planes they have the smaller receivers like the AR6100, that I also picked up, which doesn't require a satellite. These are marketed for park flyers and take standard servo connectors and while they don't specify what the actual range is on the 6100 the statements I have seen on their website indicate the practical range to be 'out to the limits of sight'. However, they advise not to use this receiver in large gas or glow planes.

I believe if you wanted to you could still use the Spektrum receivers with the Futaba 12z and 14z by using the antenna modules from Spektrum. Although, if you are flying only glow or gas this may not make any sense as the receivers cost about the same for that size.


Jerry