newflyjfl

My Feedback: (4)

Well I am thinking about switching to 2.4 due to a plane that I am having trouble with glitching. The plane is a wild stick 120, setup with a SPE 26cc gas engine, and Hitec 5645 on all surfaces. Also it has a drop box for a parachute. I am using a Futaba PPM receiever, and my 9Z WCII transmitter. I was wondering if 2.4 would elimintate engine caused glitches. I cannot get more than 25 feet from the model with the engine running. I have moved all the electronics around, and isolated the ignition from the RX. The system I am looking at is a Futaba 6X 2.4. I have also considered getting a Spektrum 2.4 Module for my 9Z WCII. Any help or suggestions about 2.4 would be great. Thanks, Jared

onewasp

Entirely possible but NOT guaranteed!
The better fix is to "fix" your ignition system or replace it.

To be certain you would have to have a pretty decent profile of the ignition's spurious output. I feel fairly certain that you do not (nor would many) but the problem seems to be clearly the ignition.

While 2.4GHz may operate in that environment it really would 'mask' the problem rather than fix it.

You really need to find and correct the problem because to my knowledge others operate the SPE26 normally.

Send a PM to [email protected] .
Bob has first hand experience with your engine and ignition system as well as plenty of 2.4GHz experience to go with it.

codimasta

My Feedback: (89)

[8D] Going to 2.4 GHZ will get rid of electric noise...since 2.4 is above the noise level...electrical noise has no effect.
I am using a 50cc gas engine, with direct throttle connection..steel rod with metal clevis...no problems...

Codimasta
AMA 11269

mtwister

2.4 will NOT "fix" glitching, it will only band aid it. You will still have a potential failure there. It's not the recommended way of "fixing" a glitch.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Light is simply a higher frequency radiation. Have you ever seen an RF glitch? You see the results of the glitch but not the RF that causes it. Its the same with 2.4ghz, it can't see the RF that causes it. You don't need to fix a glitch that it can't see. Its not a potential failure.

3D_Junkie

Switching to 2.4 will not fix a noisy ignition or make it safe to fly. I had problems with my ignition running a spektrum DX7/AR7000; the plane would not respond in certain orientations at 1/4 - 1/2 Throttle.
The solution was to replace the ignition. Works great now.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

There is always an exception, but it will fix the problem in 99.9% of the time. A bad ignition can throw RF all over the place. But if you make a simple check with the engine running you will find it before you fly. The probability that it will occur in flight without previous symtoms is very slight.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

There are many causes for RF noise. I have had to deal with it over the years. I lost one airplane because I thought that PCM fixed a problem with RF noise that only manifested itself when my Cheetah 25 was running (electronic ignition). The glitch was just less noticable. Make sure you are using a Resistor plug and use Shielded wire or a Fiber Optic kill switch. When gas engines run, you have vibration and that can cause things to rub together and generate RF noise. Electric motors can cause RF noise.

On my H9 P47-150, I was getting glitching when the Fuji32ei was running. I rerouted the antenna away from servos and other wires and bundled up the wiring and kept the Rx away for pushrods and other wires.

I have never had a problem with RF noise since I switched to 2.4.

newflyjfl

My Feedback: (4)

Well it seems that there is a difference of opinions on 2.4 fixing my problem. I should also mention that the engine is new, purchased this spring at the Toledo show. I have encountered ignition related glitches in the past, but I have always been able to solve them by seperating the RX and ignition systems. No matter what I try I cannot seem to fix the issues with this plane. I was hoping for a quick fix with 2.4, but now I am unsure that it is the answer. I was also wondering about range checking 2.4 systems? How does it work? Does anyone ever have range issues? Jared

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I am sure that if you go to 2.4 it will fix your problem and it will not recur. If I was your dealer I would give you an ironclad guarantee.
The system I use has a button on the RF module that you push. For a range check you remove the antenna and push the button. You should get 50 ft range.I checked my system in the begining at all 360 degree positions around the airplane. It exceeded 50 ft in all cases. I have had it a year and 1/2 and flown it in airplanes from a 60 in glow powered P51 to a 77" gas biplane powered by a BME100. I have never had a glitch that was not my own fault.
If you have a friend that has a 2.4 borrow it and try it. You don't have to fly it, just range check it. You will be convinced.
2.4 is simply a better system than the 72MHZ systems we had.

3D_Junkie

I will also tell you that my "glitching" problems did not occur during a ground range check (both with the engine running and not, also engine running at different power levels.) The interference I was getting would only manifest during flight.
Switching to 2.4 is not the cure for RF interference, reducing the RF output is. Switching to 2.4 only covers up the problem so that 99.9% of people don't realize there is a problem.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I am not saying that your problem cannot occur but I will say it is very unlikely. I can think of a number of things that could cause your problem that are not related to the system used. Antenna orientation is one. There are others.
2.4 ghz is much higher frequency than 72mhz. This makes the RF interference much easier to shield. Capacitive reactance of a capacitor is inversely proportional to the frequency. Every conductor has some capacitance. It don't take much to short out a frequency of 2.4GHZ. This make it almost immune to generated interference of the kind existing in our aircraft. Its not just covering up the problem its grounding it out.
Every innovation has its detractors. I can remember when the reed fliers would not use proportional systems.
Some have a financial interest, some are stubborn, and some just cannot grasp new ideas.

mtwister

Well I fly 2.4, so I do grasp the new ideas, but I will tell you that you still CAN get interference when running 2.4. How hard is it really to actually fix the problem correctly, and having a completely assured state of mind when you do fly it, as compared to band aiding it and being in fear? Your choice.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I mentioned that I have an H9 P47-150, Fuji 32 gas engine, XP9303 with Spektrum module, and AR9000 receiver with one Remote receiver.

I was flying it recently and it suddenly rolled rapidly to the Right. It is the first time I have encountered a suspected glitch with 2.4. No wind or other weather factors that might have caused the aircraft to roll like that. I rolled back to level, dropped the gear, and landed. I forgot to connect the Flight Log before turning off the radio. I did range checks, on the ground, and hooked up the Flight Log. I had over 720 fades on one antenna, over 200 fades on the other antennas, and 5 holds. The AR9000 was in the belly of the plane and the Remote receiver was on the side of the fuse. The antennas of the main receiver were crinkled and there were Aileron, Flap, and Gear extension cables laying on top of the main Rx. I remounted the main Rx vertically on a bulkhead, with the antennas on top, just below lthe canopy. I put a 36" extension on my Remote Rx and mounted it to the top of the fuse in back of the canopy. I repeated the Rante checks and not only got further Range, but I only had 1 fade each, on two antennas, and 7 fades on another. I had 40 frame losses, which is odd considering the definition of a Frame Loss is simultaneous fades on All antennas. If I add up the total number of Fades on all antennas, I get 8, so how can I get 40 frame losses? Anyway, I have flown the plane 3 times since then with not a hint of a Glitch.

By the way, RF interference is not the same as loosing the signal due to something blocking out the antenna, like a big gas engine or carbon fiber fuse.

From all that I have read and from talking to fellow modelers who have had many hours of 2.4 experience and contacts either with tech people for companies who service and sell 2.4 radios or modelers who are Communications engineers, there is very little chance that a 2.4 radio will be affected by RF interference.

Rodney

2.4 is not a guaranteed fix. We had one system at our field that clearly interfered with a Spectrum on 2.4GHz. Unusual but it did happen. A different ignition system eliminated the problem. Yes, 2.4 is more immune to RF interference than 72 MHz and 6 meteres but is NOT totally immune.

mtwister

Guys, the question is " Will 2.4 fix a glitch problem?"

I think everyone knows the answer ( no it wont fix it, it just operates above it), so why keep arguing? The answer is simple.

No, it wont FIX it.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I guess I just like to argue but:
The initial poster had a problem that he called a glitch. He tried the mandated 72mhz fixes to no avail and asked if going to 2.4ghz would fix his problem.
His problem is RF radiated from his ignition system with the engine running interfered with his radio and caused a visible reaction with one or more servos.
The 2.4 system will operate above the frequency of the ignition generated interference so the visible reaction is no longer there.
There is no danger of it returning in the air.
So yes I say going to 2.4ghz fixes his problem(or 99.9% of the time Rodney)

There is another consideration.
Since Tesla proposed the spread spectrum transmission system, it has been known that it is capable of better delivery af a message in a high noise environment. The military has used it because they determined it to be more resistant to jamming. Jamming is nothing more than deliberate noise generation. Generated ignition noise is the same as jamming.
We have never been able to use SS because we didn't have the necessary hardware and the bandwidth required. Now 100 years after Tesla we do. We would be dummys not to take advantage of what it gives us.
Now I know Heddy Lamar had the initial patent but Tesla was first.

Kometfreak

I am new to the gasoline powered models. My last experience with gas power was 30 plus years with a chainsaw motor in an R/C boat. Between the CBer's with the illegal 1000 watt boosted signal, vibration, poor batteries and ignition noise, one out every five runs would result in a total loss of control and runaway.

I have just finished a Balsa USA DR-1 with a Fuji BT24EI for power. Using a Spektrum AR7000 and hitec servos. During ground runs the throttle was jittery periodically, with the very occasional twitch of the rudder and elevator. After speaking to tech support at Horizon, I decided to install the ferrite magnetic rings on all my servos. Probably overkill, but I had them laying around. After a five minute test run, I have no jittery servos.

I am appalled by the manufacturers putting out these gas engines with out a shielded ignition system like on a real aircraft. A search on Google revealed a metal plug cap is available. A small aluminum box to shield the ignition module and along with a short section of ignition lead from a retired Bendix harness, I hope to eliminate at least 95% of the ignition noise.

Roy

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I am flying a H9 P47-150 with a Fuji32ei. I ran into problems with my 72Mhz JR649 PCM receiver. I was using an Expert reversing Y harness on Flaps. One Flap would jitter. I replaced the servos and the Y and still had the problem. I set the Flaps up with a Matchbox, and while it cured the jittery Flap, I now noticed that there were some jitters elsewhere. I rerouted the Rx antenna directly out behind the canopy and bundeled all the extension cables away from the Rx. The problem disappeared. I have since replace the 649 Rx with an AR9000.

I have had the AR9000 for a year. Suddenly, in the last 2 weeks, I will be flying, in light wind, and suddenly, the plane will roll to the Right, violently, to the Inverted position. No other hint of Elev, Throt, Rud, Gear, Flaps. No change in heading or altitude. I rolled back to level, dropped the gear, and landed without incident. I had the main Rx on the belly of the plane and the Remote Rx on the side of the Fuse. I switched to a different AR9000, put a 36" extension on the Remote and mounted it to the Inside, Top of the fuse, behind the canopy. I mounted the main Rx vertically, on a bulkhead, just below the canopy. I ranged checked and flew 2 more flights, on another day. The first flight was without incident. On the 2nd flight, the plane rolled Right, again, to the inverted position, violently, but I was able, once again, to roll back to upright, drop the gear, and land.

I am suspecting either the Ail servos or the extensions used with them. I do not think this was a Glitch in the sense that I got RF noise. I will replace the servos and extensions and see what hapens.

outssider

My Feedback: (23)

i had a plane roll on it's own before. when i got it down i put it in the engine tune up stand and worked the throttle. as the throttle increased, the left airleron wing servo started to deflect. the higher the throttle/vibration, the more the deflection. at idle/low throttle it acted normal. turned out to be the pot in that servo causing the problem.....

check the servo, gassers have a lot of vibration that damage servos electronics..

Ed

" I was wondering if 2.4 would elimintate engine caused glitches. "

Mine did/

... zak