FLYING MOUNTIE

I just need to know how many of us are using synthesized modules like spectra or other aftermarket brands with Futaba etc. any problems?

strato911

To many - it's illegal to use with anything it's not certified for.

I.E. - Hitec Spectra module is only certified for use with Hitec products.

Since the Futaba radios are NOT certified for use with any modules other than their own, using any non-Futaba module with a Futaba transmitter would be an infraction of the FCC rule 95.645.b in the US, and Canada has the same laws in it's books (sorry, I don't have the source handy).

For the reasons stated above, both Hitec and Futaba have placed notices on their respective web-sites to advise R/C enthusiasts not to use this type of combination together.

http://www.futabarc.com/faq/faq-9c-q504.html
http://www.hitecrcd.com/Accesories/spectra72.htm

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

And I sure ain't gonna tell no flyin mountie about it!

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

Four star, that is a good observation!

Break the law and run and tell a cop!

W9NM

I used the Hitec synthesized module with my Futaba 8 and Super 8 for years. I fly sailplanes and never had any problems. Before I had the courage to use it, I think I spent a week with range checks and measurements to make sure I was on freq and not generating out of spec spurs.

There is wire that needs to be cut in the TX... article is on the web.

Only problem I had is when I used an FMA rx in a HGL. Just didn't work reliability with some of the FMA receivers... that caused some lingering doubt in the back of my mind whenever I used the Hitec synthesizer.

With 2 and 3 meter ships I used the Hitec Super Slim or Futaba 148 FM.

Never lost a plane due to radio problems... only the thumb/brain link has ever proved to be the cause.

Bought a 9Z a couple of months ago and the Futaba synthesizer... NICE... and I feel better.

Emil
W9NM

visioneer_one

My Feedback: (506)

I recall reading about an interface which allows one to use the Spectra module with a JR 10X. Pretty intriguing.

strato911

Allows? or do you mean Enables?

There's a big difference. I find it hard to believe JR would go through the expensive process of having their transmitter certified with a Hitec product.

FLYING MOUNTIE

Thanks for the response so far, I am trying to see how these units made it onto the market as sold for use in futaba etc. and now we are told we cannot use them. My point that I am trying to make with MAAC is what's the differenc using this module or using aftermarket recievers / crystals with futaba or any other brand?
Any comments?

visioneer_one

My Feedback: (506)

Enables. AFAIK the adapter board isn't FCC-certified.
Pardon my grammar.

I remember where I read the info - on the RCSE list a couple of months back. One of the fellows advertised his personal 10X w/ Spectra module for sale, some of us expressed some interest in the adapter, and the seller gave some details. Apparently the adapter enables you to select pos or neg shift, so you can fly any plane with any FM rx.

Then the FCC debate started...

strato911

Several online RC suppliers who were advertising the Spectra for use with Futaba have changed their advertising as soon as I pointed out to them that it was against FCC regulations to use that way. One changed their website within 6 hours of receiving my email...

By the way, as I understand it, using any crystal other than the manufacturer's crystal also violates the FCC regs, and strongly frowned upon from the manufacturer, since your receiver may end up slightly more out of tune than using theirs.

The biggest point about using the Spectra in non-Hitec equipment is that it is in the transmitter. They don't really care what the receiver does, since it isn't transmitting anything.

In the US, this is contrary to the FCC regulation 95.645.B. In Canada, this is contrary to RSS-210 Section 5.7, according to Michael Tremblay from the Spectrum Engineering Branch of Industry Canada ([email protected]). However, RSS-210 has no Section 5.7, but Section 5.18.H (which I think Mr Tremblay meant) states that "(h) The host device and all the separately certified modules it contains jointly meet the safety requirements of RSS-102, if applicable."

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/pics/sf/rss210.pdf

Lynx

This is however extreme paranoya on the part of the FCC. It's akin to using after market parts in a car.

strato911

I never said I agree with it... nor do I agree with certain other laws, but I still try to obey them.

MustangFan

What about AMA insurance coverage under these circumstances?
Thats very important !

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

One would have to guess that if you were operating a model in violation of the FCC reg (ie breaking the law), that could be considered a violation of rule #3 prohibiting flying in a wreckless or dangerous manner.

dant-RCU

My Feedback: (3)

MustqngFan:

The AMA has formally addressed this situation more than once including an article in, I believe (and this comes from memory), the March 2002 (2001?) issue of the magazine. Their position is that this scenario will void the AMA insurance.

You can probably get a specific answer to this by contacting Carl Maroney at headquarters.

Also, this issue has already been beaten to death in this (and other online forums) so a search will give you a lot more information.

By the way, if you choose to use a Spectra module in another radio you need to be aware that there are many Contest CD's that will not allow the radio to be used in an AMA Sanctioned event and I happen to be one of them.

Just my .02 on this one.

Dan

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Yes I remember the artical well and it included an opinion statement from the FCC and I just want to state that I fully agree with Dan. It is odd Nobody seems to remember this full page statment of opinion from the AMA. It also included the use of crystals of another brand in a TX.

like Dan I to will not allow the use of wrong/brand crystals or the use of a synthesized module in a tx for which it was not certificated at any event which I am performing the CD duties.

Its time we all show a little responsibilty! If you want a synth Hitec then get a Prism or Eclipse, If you want a fully synth system then bite the bullit an get an expensive Futaba 9z synth or the inexpensive but nifty Seeker 11 system.

John

FLYING MOUNTIE

I agree totally that if we are not to use them then don't. I would never do anything to violate fcc or any other organization. I was given the transmitter and module together on a trade and assumed this was ok but obviously not.
I guess I will see if anyone has a futaba they want to trade for the hi-tech.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

FM check and post on the crystal exchange forum on this board. I am sure some one will swap you for an appropriate module. There are quite a few users out there of both module type Futaba/Hitec Tx's.

John

RiffRaff

My Feedback: (16)

Interesting thread.

What about receivers like the Hobbico Command series?

i.e. CMND 7CH FM D/C RX.

I just irdered on from Tower

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...98&FVPROFIL=++

and now I am worried. Hobbico does not even make their own TX, do they? Where else is someone going to use a product like this if not with another manufaturers TX?

strato911

As I mentioned earlier, they don't care about your receiver setup because it doesn't transmit anything.

You may legaly use any receiver with any transmitter. Functionally however, not all will work together, like Futaba Tx will not work with Airtronics Rx in North America, due to differences in frequency shift.

RiffRaff

My Feedback: (16)

Ahh,

Okay, got ya.

Excuse my ignorance, but I am just getting back into the hobby after about a 15 year hiatus.

Thanks

MustangFan

Thats what I thought I would hear concerning insurance.
So it just doesn't matter if it works or not.

I also am just getting back into the hobby after a 15 year layoff.

Thanks for the insight gentlemen !

The PIPE

Dear Dant:

The PIPE Here yet again-and even though I'm a HAM flyer (my callsign is in the sidebar of this reply) I ALSO fly on 72 MHz, with Ace RC FM RF decks-and soon TWO of these, one Ham (Ch.03) and one 72 MHz (Ch.47) will be in my first MicroStar owner built radio!

As far as I know, the ONLY TX RF decks that ARE certified narrowband ALL ON THEIR OWN-regardless of what transmitter they're in-are the Ace RC "11G9CD" AM deck, the Ace RC "11G9FMCD" FM deck, and the FMA "RFD1FM" deck, ALL DESIGNED by one FRED MARKS-the "brain trust" behind most of the great radios Ace RC used to offer (Digital Commander, Silver Seven, Olympic, Nautical Commander and MicroPro 8000) AND the founder of FMA himself! (He did NOT design the MicroPro's encoder, but his RF decks sure were in them...! )

It IS true the Silver Seven needed a change to its "C11" capacitor from 2,000 pF to 22,000 pF to be easily certified as a narrowband unit...I did this MYSELF in Y2K on my now soon-to-be-retired Silver Seven single stick radio...but Fred himself has stated repeatedly that the RF decks he's designed for Ace RC and FMA ARE narrowband on their own-especially the FM units for Ace and FMA, as these are ELECTRONICALLY IDENTICAL in every respect, down to their need for a 39 inch long collapsible Tx antenna, like the Futaba "ANT-6" (part number "FUTM5050") antenna, just like I'm using on my first MicroStar radio that DOES have the two Ace RC FM decks in it! [I'm going to be REALLY stocking up on those Futaba 39 inchers, as the Ace RC antenna is not easily available anymore!!!]

It IS also very likely that the programmable Ham frequency RF deck created by GORDON ANDERSON, designer of the MicroStar encoder at the heart of my very first single stick computer radio, that was created for use especially for his MicroStar computer encoder, will also be the creator for a possible programmable 72 MHz deck for use with FMA's upcoming line of computer radios, which are most likely ALL going to be using a MicroStar encoder as the "guts" in each and every one of them! Just check the green text at Gordon's site, at http://mstar2k.com/ , about how Gordon has linked up with FMA.

For my needs "for the present", and for my first two MicroStar owner built single stick "knobby" radios, that quartet of Ace RC FM RF decks-two Ham and two on 72 MHz-will do very nicely, but I STILL forsee the very likely possibility of the next THREE MicroStars I'll build for my future needs (beyond the first pair of them)-all to be installed in older, "gutted-of-electronics" ProLine "Competition Six" single stick transmitters-each having both Gordon's own Ham band programmable RF deck, AND an FMA 72 MHz programmable RF deck, based on Gordon's Ham band unit-IN those three future, owner-built single stick "super scale special" transmitters! That would make EVERY SINGLE 50, 53, AND 72 MHz frequency aircraft channel available to fly on (one-at-a-time, of course)-and Gordon's MicroStar encoder even remembers, in each model's set of memory settings, what frequency the model is to be flown on, and even if it's an AM or FM signal, and if FM, the polarity OF that signal with his Ham RF deck!

Now, Fred IS a person that REALLY takes his own time in getting something ready for market-that's why his "future" computer radios are "still in the future" as of now-but we Hams that are building our OWN MicroStar radios ARE getting a taste of what Fred should have on the market "for everyone else" already, and the MicroStar HAS been used for RC model flyin' with a great deal of SUCCESS on Ham and 72 MHz frequencies, with Ace RC, FMA, and Gordon's own Ham deck!

Just wondering WHAT your opinion is, Dant, on the fact that the FMA "RFD1FM" FM RF deck-the only Fred Marks designed RF deck generally available on the market right now-is CERTIFIED narrowband ON ITS OWN, and IS being used in both Ham and 72 MHz versions by MicroStar owners RIGHT NOW???

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE!

strato911

When read a statement dated August 2001 saying something will be available that fall, but still doesn't exist June 2003, I have a hard time beleiving anything else from the same source.

Aside from that, the rest sounds great - when will it REALLY make it to the market for those of us without a Ham license?

FLYING MOUNTIE

Thanks JohnBuckner I'll do that.