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11-19-2009, 10:12 PM
#2
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RE: deleted
sounds like your stuff had to get in line and wait like life in general. hitec will def let u know something in the coming days or maybe u might even just find out from the mail arriving as i have seen this in my case.....
sorry for your loss
sorry for your loss
11-19-2009, 10:30 PM
#3
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RE: deleted
Most of the 2.4 issues that have popped up at the field have been antenna related. And, I'm going to say it, you should have done a proper range check.
Receiver antenna placement is something that requires close attention. I haven't read Hitech's instructions, but they will usually say to keep them away from metal and carbon fiber, metal landing gears, etc. If it is a two antenna receiver, they need to antenna ends need to be at a 90 degree angle to eacy other. Remember, the antenna is the little stub sticking out of the coax, not the whole coax
We had a guy that would get hits on area of the field. You could hear him,"OHNO, a hit in the same place" Turned out that at that point in his flying pattern, the antenna that hadn't broken off the receiver was in a dead zone, and all radio was lost. If the plane happened to be in a condition to survive the brownout, he would get it back, It even survived, sort of, a crash and after that one was when we found the broken at the PC board antena and the other broke off in our hand was we were inspecting the plane.
Some 2.4 are slow to boot up, so an undervoltage"hit", or monentary loss of signalcan cause the receiver to go though a boot up and loose control while it is doning it. Somerespond faster than others.
Last, on your battery, Iwas flyingwith a newer Futab 6V pack (72mhz). One day,my plane went nuts on take off, and I lost all control, Ichopped throttleand nothing,It is in a nose down atatude cutting grass and heading for the barbed wire fence. Suddenly, it answered both up elevator and throttle cut and went deadstick and got enough air to clear the fence and make it to the wrong edge of thepond. When I got it back to the pits, and turned it back on, the volt watch was showing an almostdead battery and ithad come off the charger about an hour before. I got it home and cleaned thingsand checked the battery again and now it is showing a full charge. I replaced the switch, pulled the skin off the battery and checked theweld joints, put thing back and cycledit a number of times and couldn't find a thing wrong. It took me a wyile to get the wingrepaird, and when I did, Iput the same battery back in. After a couple weeks of flying, one day, it just quit answering the raido. It was in a gentle left hand turn at mid throttle and it just kept on turning and flying for what seemed like a half hour until it finally lost enough altitudethat it hit a bush. Ichecked the battery and 0V. Ipulled the new skin off and Iended up with a pack in three pieces in my hand, two of the weld jointshad let go. My first check must have pulled them back in place,but the welds were bad. Isoldered the tabs to thecels and am still filying that battery.The point it that even though your battery checked with the load,and you can't find another acceptable casue for loss of signal, it may be a good idea to skin the battery and to a reallygood inspection of the tab welds.
Good luck.
For what it's worth, I sent a reciver into Futaba a month back and the comunications from them were less than adiquate also. It could be that end of hte season,guy are sending in a lot of stuff for checkup in prep for next season. I'll givethem a pass for nowas it's the first less than satsifactory experiece with there service department.
Don
Receiver antenna placement is something that requires close attention. I haven't read Hitech's instructions, but they will usually say to keep them away from metal and carbon fiber, metal landing gears, etc. If it is a two antenna receiver, they need to antenna ends need to be at a 90 degree angle to eacy other. Remember, the antenna is the little stub sticking out of the coax, not the whole coax
We had a guy that would get hits on area of the field. You could hear him,"OHNO, a hit in the same place" Turned out that at that point in his flying pattern, the antenna that hadn't broken off the receiver was in a dead zone, and all radio was lost. If the plane happened to be in a condition to survive the brownout, he would get it back, It even survived, sort of, a crash and after that one was when we found the broken at the PC board antena and the other broke off in our hand was we were inspecting the plane.
Some 2.4 are slow to boot up, so an undervoltage"hit", or monentary loss of signalcan cause the receiver to go though a boot up and loose control while it is doning it. Somerespond faster than others.
Last, on your battery, Iwas flyingwith a newer Futab 6V pack (72mhz). One day,my plane went nuts on take off, and I lost all control, Ichopped throttleand nothing,It is in a nose down atatude cutting grass and heading for the barbed wire fence. Suddenly, it answered both up elevator and throttle cut and went deadstick and got enough air to clear the fence and make it to the wrong edge of thepond. When I got it back to the pits, and turned it back on, the volt watch was showing an almostdead battery and ithad come off the charger about an hour before. I got it home and cleaned thingsand checked the battery again and now it is showing a full charge. I replaced the switch, pulled the skin off the battery and checked theweld joints, put thing back and cycledit a number of times and couldn't find a thing wrong. It took me a wyile to get the wingrepaird, and when I did, Iput the same battery back in. After a couple weeks of flying, one day, it just quit answering the raido. It was in a gentle left hand turn at mid throttle and it just kept on turning and flying for what seemed like a half hour until it finally lost enough altitudethat it hit a bush. Ichecked the battery and 0V. Ipulled the new skin off and Iended up with a pack in three pieces in my hand, two of the weld jointshad let go. My first check must have pulled them back in place,but the welds were bad. Isoldered the tabs to thecels and am still filying that battery.The point it that even though your battery checked with the load,and you can't find another acceptable casue for loss of signal, it may be a good idea to skin the battery and to a reallygood inspection of the tab welds.
Good luck.
For what it's worth, I sent a reciver into Futaba a month back and the comunications from them were less than adiquate also. It could be that end of hte season,guy are sending in a lot of stuff for checkup in prep for next season. I'll givethem a pass for nowas it's the first less than satsifactory experiece with there service department.
Don
11-20-2009, 10:21 AM
#5
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RE: deleted
ORIGINAL: Indiomike
I've had it with Hitec. I wasted $129 on their 2.4 MGz module and two 7 channel receivers. I installed the gear in a plane and did the bind in the ''normal'' mode. The LED's indicated the bind was proper. I did a range check at full power from about 125 feet . The controls responded correctly. Now, I realize I did not do the range check in the suggested ''power down mode'' as described in the instructions. That was an oversight on my part as I am new to 2.4 technology. And before you detractors jump all over me for not doing this, I could have lied and said it was done. At any rate, both the controls and the LED's indicated all was okay. The plane taxied out okay and the take off was without incident. It was when the model was about 400 feet away and 200 feet in altitude that all response from Tx to Rx was lost. The model crashed and was a total loss. Post crash examination was done. The switch harness was checked along with the receiver battery under a 500 mAh load. Both were in excellent working order. And I did not ''dumb thumb'' the model. It was a stable flying model and I'm a very competent flier (23 plus years on airplanes and helicopters).
After a conversation with Mike Mayberry on the Hitec Support Forum I was told to send in the gear for inspection. Now this brings me to Hitec's customer service. I live less than 100 miles from the service center in Poway, Ca. I mailed the package at about noon on Friday, November 6th along with a letter explaining the whole thing. I heard nothing from Hitec so on Nov. 16th I called them to see what was going on. The tech verified they had received my package on Nov. 9th but had not gotten around to it yet. He thought they would check it out that day. Again, I got no calls from them or anything until the package was returned to me on the 18th. A note included with the gear said the module had a ''intermittant setup button dirty contact'' that was cleaned and retested. Otherwise everything checked out okay. So was that the reason why the Tx lost contact with the Rx?
So I still don't know the exact reason for the crash. Hitec's customer service was horrible in the amount of time it took them to inspect the gear (sat there for over a week before it was even looked at) and lack of communication with their customer. I have no confidence in this module and receiver and certainly won't risk putting it in another model. The least they could have done was sent a replacement. How can I trust this module and receiver. Would you?
I've wasted my money and lost a model. Thanks Hitec.
I've had it with Hitec. I wasted $129 on their 2.4 MGz module and two 7 channel receivers. I installed the gear in a plane and did the bind in the ''normal'' mode. The LED's indicated the bind was proper. I did a range check at full power from about 125 feet . The controls responded correctly. Now, I realize I did not do the range check in the suggested ''power down mode'' as described in the instructions. That was an oversight on my part as I am new to 2.4 technology. And before you detractors jump all over me for not doing this, I could have lied and said it was done. At any rate, both the controls and the LED's indicated all was okay. The plane taxied out okay and the take off was without incident. It was when the model was about 400 feet away and 200 feet in altitude that all response from Tx to Rx was lost. The model crashed and was a total loss. Post crash examination was done. The switch harness was checked along with the receiver battery under a 500 mAh load. Both were in excellent working order. And I did not ''dumb thumb'' the model. It was a stable flying model and I'm a very competent flier (23 plus years on airplanes and helicopters).
After a conversation with Mike Mayberry on the Hitec Support Forum I was told to send in the gear for inspection. Now this brings me to Hitec's customer service. I live less than 100 miles from the service center in Poway, Ca. I mailed the package at about noon on Friday, November 6th along with a letter explaining the whole thing. I heard nothing from Hitec so on Nov. 16th I called them to see what was going on. The tech verified they had received my package on Nov. 9th but had not gotten around to it yet. He thought they would check it out that day. Again, I got no calls from them or anything until the package was returned to me on the 18th. A note included with the gear said the module had a ''intermittant setup button dirty contact'' that was cleaned and retested. Otherwise everything checked out okay. So was that the reason why the Tx lost contact with the Rx?
So I still don't know the exact reason for the crash. Hitec's customer service was horrible in the amount of time it took them to inspect the gear (sat there for over a week before it was even looked at) and lack of communication with their customer. I have no confidence in this module and receiver and certainly won't risk putting it in another model. The least they could have done was sent a replacement. How can I trust this module and receiver. Would you?
I've wasted my money and lost a model. Thanks Hitec.
11-20-2009, 11:12 AM
#7
Senior Member
RE: deleted
My experience with Hitec over the last 20 some years has been very satisfactory, in fact better than I have had with any other company. Of course this was not with 2.4GHz gear. Anyway, I have found their service to be far above and beyond the normal service I've gotten else ware.
11-20-2009, 11:26 AM
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RE: deleted
Your receiver and module setup was tested over a period of several days and by several of us techs to make sure it was functioning properly. I dont know what caused you to crash, all I can do is check the equipment to see if it performs how it's supposed to which it did. The only issue we found was listed on the service order. If you read Mikes post on range testing the new 2.4 receivers in powerdown mode, your "crashed" receiver was one we used in that test. As what was stated, we got 1/4 mile in power down mode.
11-20-2009, 04:15 PM
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RE: deleted
ORIGINAL: Indiomike
Brendan can you answer these questions as it appears Mike Mayberry doesn't want to speak to me any more.
Mike is out of the office with the flu. I'm not sure when he'll be back in the office or be back online.
1. ''module has a intermittant setup button-dirty contact-cleaned and retested''. Does that comment mean something that was pre or post crash. If ''pre'', could that have caused the loss of connection between Tx and Rx?
I don’t know if it existed before or not. I noticed when I tested the equipment that I had to press the button in a certain way to get it to go into the other modes. Did you notice this when you setup the system? It would be a very noticeable thing as it would not want to go into the bind mode, the scan mode or the power down mode. Once the contact on the button was cleaned the button functioned normally. This is not something that would have had a effect on loosing the connection between the module and the Rx if it was bound and functioning properly before the flight
2. Would a power down range test instead of a full power test shown something was wrong even though I had a solid red LED on both module and receiver and the model controls were responding correctly to inputs?
If there were a issue with the instillation or range, the power down mode and range check would show it. This is just like you would do with your 72mhz equipment.
3. Module was placed in a Futaba 9CHP Super radio. Someone had sent me a PM saying he had heard of other modelers having a problem with that particular radio (not the 7U or 8U). He said the solder contacts within the Futaba were poor and putting the Hitec module in it may have caused a loss of connection through some of the pins due to poor soldering inside the radio. I did a search trying to find any comments about that but found nothing. So could the problem possibly be from the radio itself?
It's plausible that a connection problem could exist in the radio where there is a "cold" or a broken connection to the RF board and pins. This is something that can and does happen with module based radios when the module is removed and installed frequently. I don’t know of any issues particularly with this Futaba model but maybe some of it's users can give you more insight on that and if it has been a issue.
Brendan can you answer these questions as it appears Mike Mayberry doesn't want to speak to me any more.
Mike is out of the office with the flu. I'm not sure when he'll be back in the office or be back online.
1. ''module has a intermittant setup button-dirty contact-cleaned and retested''. Does that comment mean something that was pre or post crash. If ''pre'', could that have caused the loss of connection between Tx and Rx?
I don’t know if it existed before or not. I noticed when I tested the equipment that I had to press the button in a certain way to get it to go into the other modes. Did you notice this when you setup the system? It would be a very noticeable thing as it would not want to go into the bind mode, the scan mode or the power down mode. Once the contact on the button was cleaned the button functioned normally. This is not something that would have had a effect on loosing the connection between the module and the Rx if it was bound and functioning properly before the flight
2. Would a power down range test instead of a full power test shown something was wrong even though I had a solid red LED on both module and receiver and the model controls were responding correctly to inputs?
If there were a issue with the instillation or range, the power down mode and range check would show it. This is just like you would do with your 72mhz equipment.
3. Module was placed in a Futaba 9CHP Super radio. Someone had sent me a PM saying he had heard of other modelers having a problem with that particular radio (not the 7U or 8U). He said the solder contacts within the Futaba were poor and putting the Hitec module in it may have caused a loss of connection through some of the pins due to poor soldering inside the radio. I did a search trying to find any comments about that but found nothing. So could the problem possibly be from the radio itself?
It's plausible that a connection problem could exist in the radio where there is a "cold" or a broken connection to the RF board and pins. This is something that can and does happen with module based radios when the module is removed and installed frequently. I don’t know of any issues particularly with this Futaba model but maybe some of it's users can give you more insight on that and if it has been a issue.
11-20-2009, 05:24 PM
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RE: deleted
I'm sorry to hear about your lost plane, Indiomike. Doing a proper low-power range check with 2.4Ghz equipment is crucial because the equipment is much more sensitive to antenna placement than 72Mhz radio receivers.
From the descriptions being offered, we know that all of the radio equipment seems to have worked as advertised. The two most plausible explanations for your crash seem to be:
A) a receiver antenna blind spot created by metal or carbon fiber in the air frame that wasn't discovered during the range check because only full power testing was done
or
B) a possible RF module seating issue with your existing Futaba 9C Super 72Mhz transmitter.
Neither of these probable causes for your crash can be attributed to Hitec's products. I'd also suggest that Hitec's service time was, by your own account, pretty damned good. You shipped on Fri the 6th, they received it on Sat the 7th or Monday the 9th. They would have gotten to look at it on the 9th or 10th at the earliest, and would have had your module and receiver tested, repackaged, and ready to ship out by the 16th or 17th if you got it on the 18th.
If Hitec really had provided you with poor service, they would have simply range checked the module and receiver on the 9th or 10th and had it back in the mail to you by the 11th for a Nov 12th delivery. It takes more time to troubleshoot perfectly working equipment than it does gear that is actually broken. They seem to have spent the time to double verify that your stuff is working. The slightly dirty contact button probably got dirty during the crash. They simply found nothing wrong with your gear after extensively testing it.
For what it's worth, my only crash involving my Airtronics RDS8000 radio system happened specifically because of range checking the set-up. I told my buddy how to put the transmitter into range check mode, but forgot to tell him how to put it back into full power mode before he took off with my plane.
We're all learning new lessons with our 2.4Ghz radio equipment. It's unfortunate that you lost a plane, but it seems far from obvious that your Hitec module or receiver are directly to blame. It also seems doubtful that Hitec has provided you with slow or poor customer service. If all of your shipping went as quickly as a Netflix movie rental, Hitec had your equipment in hand for about six working days. That's the right amount of time to do some thorough range testing and validation without making the customer wait needlessly.
If Hitec had treated me the way they have apparently treated you, I'd be pretty happy about it.
From the descriptions being offered, we know that all of the radio equipment seems to have worked as advertised. The two most plausible explanations for your crash seem to be:
A) a receiver antenna blind spot created by metal or carbon fiber in the air frame that wasn't discovered during the range check because only full power testing was done
or
B) a possible RF module seating issue with your existing Futaba 9C Super 72Mhz transmitter.
Neither of these probable causes for your crash can be attributed to Hitec's products. I'd also suggest that Hitec's service time was, by your own account, pretty damned good. You shipped on Fri the 6th, they received it on Sat the 7th or Monday the 9th. They would have gotten to look at it on the 9th or 10th at the earliest, and would have had your module and receiver tested, repackaged, and ready to ship out by the 16th or 17th if you got it on the 18th.
If Hitec really had provided you with poor service, they would have simply range checked the module and receiver on the 9th or 10th and had it back in the mail to you by the 11th for a Nov 12th delivery. It takes more time to troubleshoot perfectly working equipment than it does gear that is actually broken. They seem to have spent the time to double verify that your stuff is working. The slightly dirty contact button probably got dirty during the crash. They simply found nothing wrong with your gear after extensively testing it.
For what it's worth, my only crash involving my Airtronics RDS8000 radio system happened specifically because of range checking the set-up. I told my buddy how to put the transmitter into range check mode, but forgot to tell him how to put it back into full power mode before he took off with my plane.
We're all learning new lessons with our 2.4Ghz radio equipment. It's unfortunate that you lost a plane, but it seems far from obvious that your Hitec module or receiver are directly to blame. It also seems doubtful that Hitec has provided you with slow or poor customer service. If all of your shipping went as quickly as a Netflix movie rental, Hitec had your equipment in hand for about six working days. That's the right amount of time to do some thorough range testing and validation without making the customer wait needlessly.
If Hitec had treated me the way they have apparently treated you, I'd be pretty happy about it.
11-20-2009, 05:52 PM
#12
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RE: deleted
BigEd
Okay, I'll accept your take on this matter. Some could argue I'm biased and want to place blame at Hitec's door regardless of what happened. I could argue Hitec is biased and doesn't want their equipment to get a bad name. You strike me as an independent observer. Being kind of angry over this has made my patience rather short. I guess disappointments and losing airplanes every once in a while is just a part of the hobby one has to accept. When a crash occurs I always want to know exactly what caused it so that measures can be taken to prevent it from occurring again. I have plenty of 72 MHz radios so I think I'll just stay there for now. Besides, the frequency board is less crowded now with the use of 2.4MGz.
I appreciate your comments on this matter.
Mike
Okay, I'll accept your take on this matter. Some could argue I'm biased and want to place blame at Hitec's door regardless of what happened. I could argue Hitec is biased and doesn't want their equipment to get a bad name. You strike me as an independent observer. Being kind of angry over this has made my patience rather short. I guess disappointments and losing airplanes every once in a while is just a part of the hobby one has to accept. When a crash occurs I always want to know exactly what caused it so that measures can be taken to prevent it from occurring again. I have plenty of 72 MHz radios so I think I'll just stay there for now. Besides, the frequency board is less crowded now with the use of 2.4MGz.
I appreciate your comments on this matter.
Mike
11-21-2009, 12:11 PM
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RE: deleted
Mike,
I haven't seen any module bay issues with the 9C radios, but what I've seen is cheaply made modules that people are using with the 9C.
Do a search here or on other forums, here is one: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1145316
Thanks,
Doug.
I haven't seen any module bay issues with the 9C radios, but what I've seen is cheaply made modules that people are using with the 9C.
Do a search here or on other forums, here is one: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1145316
Thanks,
Doug.
