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my first 2.4 crash

Old 01-12-2010, 07:16 PM
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mmorg1
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Default my first 2.4 crash

This weekend I lost my first airplane on a 2.4 system. It was a p-47 with Airtronics RDS8000 system. 8 channel reciever with 10 servos and a 6volt battery pack. after the crash plugged everything in(except the switch..destroyed) and it worked fine. Battery tested at 6.1 volts under a 1amp load. As I flew up wind and began a left turn out the airplane pitched up and rolled right. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them.
Old 01-12-2010, 09:39 PM
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vertical grimmace
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

Crashes are rarely radio related unless the RX battery died. Almost always disorientation of the pilot or mechanical failure.
Old 01-12-2010, 09:48 PM
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canavanbob
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

The battery came loose, slid back, made the plane tail heavy and the plane stalled. The battery being loose caused the switch to be destroyed.
Old 01-12-2010, 11:44 PM
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mmorg1
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

Both good answers, However I have been flying for over 25 years, scale, imac, fun-fly ect. Not disorientation. The battery pack was located in the nose of the aircraft inside a battery box, it could not slide out, come unplugged or cause a tail heavy situation. (I make all scale models slightly nose heavy to begin with) But maybe the battery somehow got damaged on engine mount bolts and shorted out. It was hard to tell from all the damage. Anybody want a quadra 41 that is split in half.
Old 01-13-2010, 04:30 AM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

what was the weather conditions?

wet , rain, moisty?

any MIL base or a high radio antena/celolar??


Old 01-13-2010, 04:33 AM
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Lazer
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

Man! I sure wish I had your insight! How do you know for sure that is what happened? I know your just joking, right?
Old 01-13-2010, 08:01 AM
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airbusdrvr
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

I'm still trying to figure out my first 72Mhz crash
Old 01-13-2010, 10:36 AM
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snuts
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

In the early 90's I started to impliment redundant D.C. power. 2 switches, 2 packs, plugged into 2 ports.I have had no honest glitches since. My beleife is that most glitches are intermitent opens anywhere in the power supplied. Usually the contacts in the switch. The odds of both switches experiancing an intermittent open at the same time are near impossible. The advantage of parrallel supply feeders is reduced voltage loss, which makes this even more 2.4 friendly!
-Snuts-
Old 01-13-2010, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

With 2.4 uncommanded control input is almost always the result of some internal issue. Either power (intermittent), loose connections, servos causing feed back, etc. Outside issues will generally cause lock outs and with a FHSS that will be a really rare possibility.

I would be looking at the installation and equipment very closely and without question I would send the radio in for a look see.
Old 01-13-2010, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash


ORIGINAL: airbusdrvr

I'm still trying to figure out my first 72Mhz crash
I love it!
Old 01-13-2010, 11:57 AM
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caltrop
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

My DX7 did the same thing and is still acting up after four trips back to Horizon. My DX7 has been behaving better but...

My mini Ultra Stick was flying level and suddenly did a flip-flop and nosed in full throttle. I was not pushing on the sticks at all and CRASH!

I'm still having glitching with my 2.4GHz system with several aircraft and at several different locations so there is no one thing interfering with it. I am skeptical of the whole 2.4GHz RC radio craze. I know the government is behind the switch like with Digital TV. You can only cram so much on a single frequency band and then it all goes to !#$%^&*!!!

The DX7 the receivers were originally advertised to operate down to 3V but in reality if it gets below 4V you're in trouble. Even with the new updates it is risky getting close to 4V. With a standard battery pack at 4.8V and BEC's at 5V it makes you wonder if it is safe to fly with 2.4GHz.

I am currently looking at the Hitec Aurora 9 but... Hitec is one of the last on the market with 2.4GHz and it looks like they did more R&D making sure they had a dependable radio system. The Aurora also use modules so you can switch to 72MHz or whatever. Too bad that 2.4GHz is not more cross compatable than 72MHz was. It just means that I will not be able to fly the micro toys that Horizon has been trying to get on the market. If I want a micro I'll get something elseor build my own - POOH on Horizon!

I've already lost enough $$$ with 2.4GHz and am back to 72MHz and no more problems. That and the receivers are smaller and cheaper than 2.4GHz.
Old 01-13-2010, 06:55 PM
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mmorg1
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

hey gadix, the weather was perfect, as for military bases we are surrounded. I am still leaning towards some kind of battery issue since the throttle is on failsafe and did not retard.
Old 01-14-2010, 03:12 AM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

you mentioned that the batt is in a safe wood box

so i will figure that you had an RF interference from military equipment - most of them uses Micro-wave Freq' which can be paralel to 2.4G!!!!!

if u can, get a spectrum analizer to the field and do an AUTO sacn to dismiss this MIL RF noise
Old 01-14-2010, 10:00 AM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

If it was outside RF on the 2.4 band swamping the spectrum it will NOT take control or cause unwanted commands. All that happens is the system either slows to the point of uselessness or you totally lose link in which case the system goes into either failsafe or hold.
Old 01-14-2010, 12:01 PM
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Zeeb
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

Well I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say what the OP posted sounds exactly like what happens in a tip stall....
Old 01-14-2010, 12:55 PM
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vertical grimmace
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash


ORIGINAL: caltrop

My DX7 did the same thing and is still acting up after four trips back to Horizon. My DX7 has been behaving better but...

My mini Ultra Stick was flying level and suddenly did a flip-flop and nosed in full throttle. I was not pushing on the sticks at all and CRASH!

I'm still having glitching with my 2.4GHz system with several aircraft and at several different locations so there is no one thing interfering with it. I am skeptical of the whole 2.4GHz RC radio craze. I know the government is behind the switch like with Digital TV. You can only cram so much on a single frequency band and then it all goes to !#$%^&*!!!

The DX7 the receivers were originally advertised to operate down to 3V but in reality if it gets below 4V you're in trouble. Even with the new updates it is risky getting close to 4V. With a standard battery pack at 4.8V and BEC's at 5V it makes you wonder if it is safe to fly with 2.4GHz.

I am currently looking at the Hitec Aurora 9 but... Hitec is one of the last on the market with 2.4GHz and it looks like they did more R&D making sure they had a dependable radio system. The Aurora also use modules so you can switch to 72MHz or whatever. Too bad that 2.4GHz is not more cross compatable than 72MHz was. It just means that I will not be able to fly the micro toys that Horizon has been trying to get on the market. If I want a micro I'll get something else or build my own - POOH on Horizon!

I've already lost enough $$$ with 2.4GHz and am back to 72MHz and no more problems. That and the receivers are smaller and cheaper than 2.4GHz.
That's too bad you have had so much trouble. I shyed away from the Spektrum stuff as I did not like the way it looked. I do not fly the little toy planes so I had no need to use that system.
Why not get a module system from Hitec for an older radio you may have. I just added a module to an old 8U TX and it works great. $120 for a module and 2 RX'ers. You can always put your 72 module back in if you want. I don't understand the "not so cross compatible". All of my stuff goes right back to 72 if I want to. But why would I want to? 72 is past tense at this point. Time to look forward.
Old 01-14-2010, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

Make room out there, just hope too many don't pile on[X(] Crackkk
Pete
Old 01-14-2010, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

to the OP...

mAh size of the pack?
Old 01-14-2010, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash


ORIGINAL: Zeeb

Well I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say what the OP posted sounds exactly like what happens in a tip stall....

Sadly, I think there is also a possibility of this. A stall/spin/crash event will essentially mimic "I ain't got it!!" because control input is ineefective at low altitude and airspeed.

But radio issues also need to be considered.
Old 01-15-2010, 11:40 AM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

Last week I finished a new plane and installed a previously used switch. Everything was great during servo setup, testing, ect..... Not a single issue UNTIL I started the engine. A few minutes into the break in run, the receiver started losing power intermittantly for several seconds at a time as indicated by the red light on the receiver and erratic servo movement. Power was very intermittant. It appeared that vibration induced a switch failure so I changed it out and also changed the battery since I was only 99% sure it was the switch. From now on on all my planes, the will have 2 switches for redundancy...........

It sounds like you had a power failure of some sort......
Old 01-15-2010, 09:40 PM
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mmorg1
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

I believe it was power failure, since the failsafe did not function. So i am putting together a christen eagle with redundant systems. Funny all my aerobatic airplanes have redundant systems with the smartfly batshare, but not my scale stuff. I guess I just didnt want to go through the trouble of hiding another switch. Thanks for all the replies. (My name is mike and it has been one week since my last crash.) Does anyone have Dr. Drew's phone number?
Old 01-15-2010, 11:02 PM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

One other point. The 2.4 is no less prone to ign. noise than 72. One of the guys at the field was ready to take off with a 1/4 scale pitts when tha tail surfaces went haywire. Both were wagging to beat the band. Turned out the shielded plug cap on that particular motor was not on tight. The arcing when it was touching the plug base was causing the 2.4 Spectrum to go crazy. Shoved it on properly and everything was fine.
Another was a Quadra 42 that was going crazy too with the surfaces going nuts just flipping the prop. I noticed the plug said Lawnmower on it. Not a good thing. The Quadras HAVE to have a resistor type plug. Luckily I had a Champion RCJ7Y plug in my truck. The "R" in the # means it's a resistor plug. Stuck that in it and everything was smooth as a kitten. Just food for thought.
Old 01-16-2010, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: my first 2.4 crash

Hi Gord,
I doubt that RF situation was bothering the receiver. That kind of RF leakage will drive the servos nutz without any help from the receiver. I had a similar incident last fall, only in my case only the analog throttle servo went crazy, even though the pushrod was Nyrod and the servo was back behind the fuel tank. I think the reason only the throttle servo was affected was that all the other servos HS-5625 digital) had twisted leads, including the extensions, as opposed to the flat ribbon wire on the analog servo.
Regards,
Pete

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