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Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Old 02-15-2010, 01:26 AM
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Campgems
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Default Hitech/futaba wierd failure

I was out to the field yesterday and a guy had a new trainer that he was trying to setup.His TX was a Hitech, one with the synthized RF module, and a Futaba R127 receiver. I got the ailerons centered and some expo trimed in, and added a bit more up elevator and subtrimed it. I followed up with centering the rudder,but it kind of drifted around center. I wrote it off the analog servo centering issues. Then we started on the throttle.Humm, no movement on the throtle. They, the owner and another member, had just started the engine a few minutes before and had throttle control. I moved the throttleservo to the ailerons and it worked OK. moved it back and still a dead CH3. OK, the RX is intementent on Ch3 or the TX is having a problem. Another guy showed up at the bench and I was explaining the problem and when I went to show him, the throttle worked. The end points were a bit off, but it had full throw. A lot of discussion about why it may have quit but no answer.

I started cycling the throttle and every now and then, the rudder would twitch. At first, I thought I may be causing it with stick movement, so I started very carefully going from idle to full throttle with very slow movements. About 4 out of ten cycles, the rudder woud twitch or really swing withabout full movement. Imoved the TX away from the plane in case I was overpowering the RX, same issue. Ithen extended the antenna and the issue remained. Only the rudder was twitching. A range check showed OK with the exception of the rudder twitch.

Question. While I'm not sure of the model of the Hitech TX, is there a known issue with wire chaffing on that TX? It was only the left stick that seemed to be failing The chaffing of the wires on a gimble on another TX series came to mind.I doubt it is a RX problem, but I can't be sure at this point.

Any ideas??

DOn
Old 02-15-2010, 01:52 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Its almost certainly a Hitec Eclipse and not the older Prism 7X because the prism 7X does not have the throttle lock feature.

That lock feature on this Eclipse is what is going on and its extremely unlikely there is anything wrong with this radio. That very bottom lower left button next to the throttle cut button is the throttle lock button, a safety device. If you press that button while the radio is on the throttle servo will not move. It will only function if you push the lock button agine or cycle the radio power off then on agine.

John
Old 02-15-2010, 05:59 PM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure



John, I'll pass that on to him. I've never heard of that feature before, but then there are a lot of things new to me. Thanks for the info.I'll see if that may be the issue.

The throttle causing the rudder glitching must be a different issue.

Don

Old 02-15-2010, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Nothing Known. Unknown TX and module of unknown origin .... new but used??? Receiver new..but used???
New trainer so I assume the tx and rx are new to the field but what condition?

Check with another radio if possible.
Old 02-15-2010, 08:16 PM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Yes Don The glitch is possibly another problem. The throttle lock feature has caught many folks unaware and caused no doubt many Eclipse' to be returned needlessly but its also likely that the glitch problem may well seem not so bad once one knows about that switch and no longer keeps hitting it accidently which keeps fueling the confusion.

John
Old 02-17-2010, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

What servos are being used in the model? Some of the very cheap low end servos can cause glitching problems like what you are describing.
Old 02-17-2010, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Brendan, They were Futaba S148's I think. In any case, they were Futaba standard size. Hopefully we don't get rained out this weekend and I can get a little more educated set of hands on the problem.

What was interesting was that the rudder servo twitched when moveing the throttle. I was being very careful to make sure I wasn't imparting any side movement to the stick. moving just the rudder was smooth at any throttle setting. I should have brought the plane home with me and narrowed down the problem.

Don

Old 02-18-2010, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

In my experience over the years with problems like what you are describing it usually has come down to the receiver "cross talking" to another channel or a servo issue when cheap servos are used. Rarely has it been in the Tx side but occasionally it has. Resetting the model memory (if using a computer radio) sometimes solves the issue here, other times recalibrating the entire radio has fixed the issue. Try the receiver or servo firts though before you reset the model memory.
Old 02-19-2010, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Just got a note from him. He replaced the RX with no change, He then used a different TX and the problem followed the TX. He has sent it in for repair.The TX was a HiTech Optic 6. He is expecting it back next week. I'll let you know what they found.

Don
Old 02-19-2010, 11:09 PM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

I don't recall specifically if the Futaba R127 is suspect in this application, but some RX's don't inter-act well with Hitec's synthesized TX module. It’s simply a consideration of OEM component compatibilities or lack thereof.

Best case would be to test the TX and model as is with a standard TX module to eliminate the aforementioned variable.
Old 02-20-2010, 01:57 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Hopefully, Hitech repair service will take that into mind. I'm at the point I'm OKwith mixing servo manufactures, but not RX and TX manufactures. Ispent to many years in the large mainframe computer repear and development to know that even if both met the "standards" that didn't necessarly mean they would work together happly. LOTs and lots of finger pointing. Throw in a telephone company into the mix and things got ugly with the customer setting there wondering what they did wrong.

Iguess some of the same stuff is still going on. I sitck with Futaba RX and TX. Not because they are better, but because thats the brand I started with andif somethng goes wrong between them, there is only one direction to point to for a fix..

Thanks for this info. It may be another Alert for me to post on our clubs web site.

Don

Old 02-20-2010, 02:08 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Don,

It's no fault of the Hitec stuff and there is nothing Service can do to alleviate the problem... The RX in question is not likely 100% compatible with the Hitec synthesized TX module.
Old 02-20-2010, 02:16 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Michael, I had started a PMto you on this until I saw your response. So here is my response.

Mike, after reading your reply, and after typing my response, it really brought back some of the battles we fought in a mixed supplier computer room.

Ithink the issue is with the synthized RFmodule, not the receiver. It the Synthized RF is the only kid in the room that can't get along with the others, why isone of the other kids fault?? That logic made me a lot of money trouble shooting those kind of arguments. Igot paid who ever was at fault, mostly on over time and weekend premimums. Like I said in the post, throw in a third party, IEthe telephone companies and things were sure to stretch out for sometimes months before a problem was resolved. And, the customer was always in the middle of the fray.

Don Rogers


Michael, I'm disappointed that Hitech is going down this slipery slope. What more can I say. All the more reason for a single vendor supplier, and now Hitech wouldn't be it.

Don

Old 02-20-2010, 02:22 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Don,

I here you but it works with Hitec gear and and most other RX's. So it may very well be a RX short-coming of sorts. That said Hitec does not claim it works with other gear, only theirs...
Old 02-20-2010, 03:13 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Hitec originally advertized it as being compatible with Hitec,Futaba and other brand TRANSMITTERS.
Old 02-20-2010, 03:18 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

With respect to all previous commentators, one trusts that the the R127 in question is not that as described in the thread and .pdfattachement at:
Futaba R127DF - FAQ re jitters.
That particular model of receiveris well known for problems, even with non modularFutaba TX.

Regards
Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links
Old 02-20-2010, 08:26 AM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure


ORIGINAL: KB9STD

Hitec originally advertized it as being compatible with Hitec,Futaba and other brand TRANSMITTERS.
I'd like to see these advertisements?
Old 02-20-2010, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Boy Oh Boy, have I received and education on this. Sorry for going off half cocked on the RF module. Ineed to prune my collection of receivers it appears.

As I stated before, I had a couple decades of troublshooting problems in a mixed vendor environment. The box that couldn't get along with others was the problem, well usually. It looks like this is one of the issues that dosent follow the "rule".

I'll check with the guy with the problem and see if the recevier he swapped in was another 127. He is coming back to the hobby after afew years break, so it may well be that he has collection of the older RX's.

Now that I opened this can of worms. are there other known problems with compatability? Other than the obvous shift or ppm/pcm issues. I guess most of this will go away as 2.4 becomes more common, but a lot of guys, myself included still fly 72 even though they have some 2.4 equipment. My self, I'm now using a Futaba 10C, one of the modular ones so I can switch between modes with the swap of a module. Isee many different 2.4 setups becoming avaiable that are advertised to work with my 9Cand tX's like the one in question here. Alan, are you keeping a list of those problems as they pop up?

Last, I'm not a fan of the switchable frequency modules. I bought my 9C super with one and it "failed" after a few months. It turns out that the failure was that I had set it to CH 66 vs Ch56. The switch and bezel with the numbers were not very well aligned. After this, I would not make a frequency chang on it at the field in fear that I might select a frequency by mistake that was in use and shoot some one down. Over a few years I migrated to a set of three frequencys and have RFmodules for each of them, and now 2.4 as well.

Don
Old 02-20-2010, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: Hitech/futaba wierd failure

Don,

I'm unaware of other problems with OEM compatibility issues with regard to Hitec synthesized TX module less the occasional RX that simply will not work. I suspect it has do with varying degree of component specifications of the specific RX in hand, i.e. + or - tolerances to name one.

PPM - PCM or NEG-POS shift requirements or considerations are a moot consideration. If the TX and RX in play are capable of meeting the needs of same, any TX module will work as this stuff is all defined ahead of the module and at the RX.

That said PCM is proprietary you must use a like OEM brand TX and RX to go there. Any compatible TX module on the appropriate band will work in my experience.

With any combination a rigorous and thorough range check is paramount to continued operation of the model….

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