Angle

Is it possible and legal to fly an R.C. model aeroplane at a distance beyond eyesight(say 10 miles) using a video camera on the aeroplane?.
I assume that both the transceivers would need to be more powerful than usual.
Thanks in advance.
Angle.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

No. The range of your radio is limited by the power of the Tx and that is limited by law.

Harry

camtronix

The US gov't does it all the time.
It might cost a few $$$ more, but hey why not lean
on the taxpayers, eh?
And then there are the communication drones
planned to add cell phone and other comm data in the sky. Check what Scaled is doing.

Now, just what are you planning on doing?
Maybe we should report you to the FAA or Home Land
Security folks????

tiggerinmk

I was at a field a while ago (non AMA in the middle of nowhere) and this German guy had a Multplex radio on 35mhz. He said that these radios have twice the output as the US 72mhz radios...

Even so, I wouldn't like to try beyond line of sight.

I doubt if the FAA or Homeland security would be interested in the goings on over in the UK....

If you're planning on dropping on Downing St you might have to take off from Westminster Bridge which might arouse a little suspicion....

ECMKING

Hi Everbody,

I also do have a idea to do sth similar to Angle's ,
I don't need 10 miles range, 5~6 miles will be fine for me.
Anyone have any idea to do so? Is the Multiplex or anything able to do so at a huge plain with very rare population, and of course the buildings?

Thanks for any technical replies in advance.

LSI

Lynx

If there are a lot of buildings around you'll be lucky to get a whole mile.

mr.rc-cam

The 35Mhz European R/C transmitters have 100mW RF power. Most USA transmitters are 200mW. After factoring in the higher efficiency of the lower frequency, the two R/C bands are about the same.

In the USA, the only way to legally get a reliable range beyond the standard "beyond visual sight" is to obtain a ham license and fly on 6-meters. Although there is a recommended 1 watt limit for casual model R/C, experimental applications can use more power. However, all ham applications MUST be hobby related and not part of an organization (profit, non-profit, or Gov).

Mediaman

My Feedback: (1)

Go and make friends with the chief engineer of a local FM or midband VHF TV station. He will tell you, he may have an old exciter. I had a couple of old exciters, the RF output was 10watts, your radio crystal will connect straight to the crystal connector on the exciter "oven". The station's shift and your radio's shift has to be the same, hell you may only need the amplifier section of the exciter (may need retunning). FCC will not like it do....Remember: If you intend to fly via a TV link, the airplane will need a TV transmitter of enough power to get back to you.

An old RF guy is more likely to tell you or even know, the younger guys seem to be part changers, I know....I managed a full power TV station and some radio stations as well.

My 2 cents

Steve Lewin

Technically it obviously is possible because the Army/Navy do it all the time with reconnaissance drones.

However standard RC gear does not have the range and using anything more powerful or boosting the R/C gear is illegal without either a Ham licence or a specific experimental licence.

Steve

Lynx

Of course it's technically possible. It's also extremely illegal.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Are you trying to say that it is legal to operate an RC vehicle (under Amateur regulations) with over 1 watt of power?

And you don't have to operate an RC vehicle only on 6 meters if you are a HAM.

mr.rc-cam

Yes, there are provisions for experimental stations to use higher power. But as you suggest, regular 6-meter R/C must be under 1-watt. In all cases, it must be a hobby activity.

Hams can use any of the unlicensed R/C frequencies as well as 6-meters. The amateur ticket gives them access to the latter.

Thud_Driver

My Feedback: (1)

Check out this place: http://www.micropilot.com/

That's one way, there are others, but standard R/C gear typically isn't good enough. Even high powered RF links using Ham band stuff won't get you low altitude line of sight connectivity at any sizeable distance except via HF maybe. Licensing might be an issue with the Micropilot 2.4 GHz link. They have other ways to get the airplane out and back with just R/C links if you don't care about real time connectivity. If you are an experimenter, you could probably do the job with a basic stamp, GPS card and servo interface card for an autonomous A/C. You can do internet searches on microcontroller + radio control and there's lots of stuff out there and quite a bit is for robotics.

While it's assumed, there's nothing in the rules that says you have to keep visual contact with the object being controlled. Since you're in England, depending on what equipment you ended up with, you'd have to comply with whatever the equivalent FCC & FAA rules are. Unlikely to be a big problem for hobby projects. After all, there was a recent FAI trans-Atlantic record attempt using R/C stuff and autonomous flight with reporting via satelite (it failed). Is this curiosity or do you have a project in mind.

Lynx

The how's are so important as the why's, 99.999% of RC flight can be acomplished without such extravegant hardware.

SeacretsOceanCity

the military uses satellites for long distance recon

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Can you describe a scenario where a hobby (amateur) user can run over 1 watt (whatever "experimental" means)

mr.rc-cam

I'll contact the ARRL and get their official position on this.

RC-CAM

Borzak

My Feedback: (2)

I doubt seriously the military uses satellite communication for the predator type drones. If so they would have to overcome major problems such as - a 7 second one way delay - meaning instrumentation on the plane would take 14 seconds to respond to the ground control - a lot can happen in 14 seconds. Plus recently they fired hellfire missles from a drone to kill a suspected terrorist in a car - later showing the video image from the plane. I can't imagine doing all that on a 14 second delay on video....

Not to mention putting a satellite transmitter in the drone itself - remember all these long range recon drones send instrumentation data back to the ground station like altitude/airspeed/location etc.. something we never do in R/C.

I think they just use a really powerful RF transmitter on the ground and another (probably less powerful) on the plane.

mr.rc-cam

It looks like I was offering false hope. Under the USA ham Telecommand rules, 97.215, RF power used to control a model craft on 6-meters must not exceed 1 watt. It appears that there are no exceptions to this model control power limitation. I am sorry if I cause any confusion.

So, do not attempt to increase the RF power on your ham band R/C transmitter.

SeacretsOceanCity

Borzak
before you doubt anything do you homework I am in the Air Force I can give you all the technical jargon if you want. Do a little research on the net its not classified info.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Mr RC-CAM

I want to sincerely thank you for this post. You seem like a cool guy. From your sig it seems you are a vendor, and based on this post I would definitely consider giving you my business.

In the past 3 or 4 days I have seen so much misinformation on this board it is incredible. I worry that the newbies are starting to listen to people that are just flat out wrong. I worry that the very experienced guys (and ladies!) that really know their stuff on this board are frustrated by constantly getting into "arguements" with people who seem to be better at posting than researching their posts and backing down when they are factually wrong!

Again, I tip my cap to you.

mr.rc-cam

Thank you for the kind words, but I am not a vendor. The RC-CAM site is a web destination that has fun R/C related gadgetry to share. No hidden agendas either. Be sure to check out the "Special Projects" page.

I feel bad I mentioned that higher power was available to licensed 6-meter users. I sure wish it was for those unique R/C piloting applications. But the 1 watt rule is cast in stone.

JUtah

Can anyone explain to me why you would want to fly an RC plane 5, 6, 10 miles away? What would the purpose of that be?? I can't help but think of the all too numerous ways that this could be used in a negative manner....... Granted, I think it would be cool to fly over my house and take some snapshots, however.........

One could do a considerable amount of damage in a 1/3 Scale aircraft used as a weapon that had 5 or 6 miles range and didn't need to make a return trip.

It is my ever so humble opinion that no only should we not encourage this illegal activity, but we certainly should not help those that would. Remember folks, you often times have no idea with whom you are corresponding on the other side of the text.


Just my .02

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

Borzak: Don't know where your 7 second delay is at 186,000 miles/second it has always been my experience that I had to put up with a 1/4 second delay and things worked out quite well. Let's see 7 seconds x 186,000. 1.2 million miles away. That's some satellite!!

Lynx

It's not the speed of light that causes the delay 4*60. It's the fact that a signal has to be encoded, transmitted up, received, decoded, processsed, re-encoded, transmitted back down to a base station, decoded, processed re-encoded AGAIN, re-transmitted back up to the sat... decoded, processed, re-encoded and finally retransmitted back down to the 'unit'