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Oversteer and throttle control?

Old 08-27-2008, 07:27 AM
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Spetz
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Default Oversteer and throttle control?

I'm just wondering, how come drift cars, when the rear steps out a bit, the front wheels keep the car going "straight" kinda
Where as in my car (not drift) if I give it too much gas through a corner it just spins out completely? it's also AWD
Old 08-27-2008, 07:39 AM
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olkleaf
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

your tires aren't good or your set up isn't adjusted right (shocks, toe in and toe out, camber, ride height, caster). there are many things that can make your car over steer and spin out. tires are very important if you don't have the right tires for the front and back the car will be very unstable it will want to spin out on corners even just going in a straight line will be difficult.
Old 08-27-2008, 07:41 AM
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PrjctStrtFrce
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Main thing is suspension set-up and WEIGHT distribution
Old 08-27-2008, 08:04 AM
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CBM Racing
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Yeah, plus with drifting the front tires are as slippery as the rear ones, so they all break traction at the same time. But with regular tires either the front or rear break loose on there own usually, causing either push or oversteer condition. The tires with the least resistance naturally try to lead the way, and the tires with more resistance(drag)naturally try to stay behind. Like when you hit the e-brake, the rear end looses traction, the front end has more resistance(drag) acting in effect like a parachute. The trick is to counteract these tendencies with set-up, tire selection, and most of all skill!
Old 08-27-2008, 08:29 AM
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oneofakindtrini
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

exactly in drift cars they use lower grip tires and just like in the stage d the engine is moved foward so there is grip to the front wheels so the rear and front wheels keep on spinning..
Old 08-27-2008, 08:58 AM
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Spetz
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Well my car is a bit weird
Off throttle there is oversteer
On throttle (acceleration) it tends to get the rear twitchy and oversteer at times
And on neutral throttle (keeping speed through a corner) it understeers

This was ofcourse with no alignment (done just by eye), slick tyres, and pretty tight front and rear diffs

Since then I've done a proper alignment, put 50K front diff oil and 10K rear diff oil
I haven't driven it since though
Old 08-27-2008, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Sounds like it's the overdrive ratio. A rear oriented overdrive will cause exactly what you describe, understeer in the mid corner, over steer on power. Apart from that, the usual things apply in order to increase rear grip... stiffer front sway bar, more rear camber, less rear toe, softer springs and damping, slightly higher ride height at the back (.5 to 1mm higher than the front).

What tires are you using? If foams, what shore, and what diameters?

PS. Off throttle oversteer is usually not enough (rear) droop.
Old 08-27-2008, 09:42 AM
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Spetz
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

The car doesn't really have any droop. At most maybe .5mm or so

The tyres are Tamiya slicks, they're not very grippy but I ordered some HPI 23R slicks

What do you mean by overdrive ratio?
I had already put hard springs in the front, soft in the rear + front swaybar but somehow it wasn't really good handling
Old 08-27-2008, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

What foxy said will help you stabilize the car more. But believe me, once the new slicks arrive there will be a huge difference...tamiya tires look soft but they're not.
Old 08-27-2008, 10:18 AM
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Spetz
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

They don't even look that soft... and they last forever
They are so old that they are cracked everywhere

Of course I had to pay nearly $40USD for the HPI tyres compared to $24USD for the Tamiya ones
Old 08-27-2008, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Your lack of droop is definitely your problem. When you are cornering, the inside tire is lifting. remove the droop screws completely and fit good foam tires. Bet the difference is astonishing.

Search for overdrive ratio, I've explained it a number of times.
Old 08-27-2008, 11:53 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

The car has no droop screws
But basically the springs are stiff enough such that with the weight of the car, they don't really compress
Should I soften springs or take some preload out??
Old 08-27-2008, 11:56 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

I had a search for overdrive ratio but the only thing I found is for the gears
Nothing to do with handling
Old 08-27-2008, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

buy foam tires and you'll see the difference a lot more.
Old 08-27-2008, 12:56 PM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

The tyre size is an odd one and foams cost 60USD a set which isn't worthwhile for me considering I don't race, just bash around
Old 08-27-2008, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

ORIGINAL: Spetz

I had a search for overdrive ratio but the only thing I found is for the gears
Nothing to do with handling
The gears (or rather pulleys) have EVERYTHING to do with handling. Read the posts properly.

Besides, all this is pointless if you're not using foam tires, your overdrive ratio should be 1:1 with identical rubber tires front and rear. You'll never get it to handle like a racecar on rubber slicks. When you put foams you put wider tires at the back, makes a HUGE difference. If you just bash around why do you care about handling? Without a track to test on (even if it's one you build yourself with cones), you'll never understand the difference your adjustments are making.

The golden rule about car setup is that you don't even START looking at it until you are consistent with the default setup. Doesn't matter if you're doing 20 seconds a lap, or 25, as long as you are always doing the same time for 20 laps within a second of each other. Then you know that you are consistent enough to actually understand the difference any adjustments make.

You're wasting your time and effort asking about handling when you're using rubber tires on car parks, sorry but it's true. It will always be sliding around all over the place unless you visit a track, learn how to drive by watching others, and take the whole thing a bit more seriously. You may find that when you're on a track and braking properly for corners and taking it easy on teh gas, your car setup is excellent. How would you know?

At least visit the track while you are setting up the car. When you know you have a setup that works for you, you never need to go back there if you don't want to.
Old 08-27-2008, 05:22 PM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

You make a good point,
I do make a "mental track" and I do have cones. Basically the adjustments I make are for me to see/feel the car having more grip and being able to go faster through some "corners" in the car park
I was hoping to set it up pretty well before visiting the track

Would rubber slicks provide decent grip at the track??
Old 08-28-2008, 02:13 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Not really. Foams provide about a 300% increase in grip over rubber regardless of car setup. GRP foams are very reasonably priced in Greece and Cyprus, cos they come from our next door neighbor, Italy.
Old 08-28-2008, 03:02 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Yeah but the size is odd (Super Nitro size) and not only is it extremely difficult to find them but at the same time they are too expensive
Old 08-28-2008, 03:56 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

they are not too expencive, go to nitrohobbies and buy some enneti tyres its only 16 euro the four of them!! its cheap, compared to the other brands that i used which they were 11 euro the two....
Old 08-28-2008, 04:41 AM
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Spetz
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Cypriot Boy, what size is this though?
My wheels/tyres are a really odd size
Old 08-28-2008, 09:02 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

what do you mean. they are 30mm back and 26mm on the front
Old 08-28-2008, 09:05 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?


ORIGINAL: Spetz

Well my car is a bit weird
Off throttle there is oversteer
On throttle (acceleration) it tends to get the rear twitchy and oversteer at times
And on neutral throttle (keeping speed through a corner) it understeers

This was ofcourse with no alignment (done just by eye), slick tyres, and pretty tight front and rear diffs

Since then I've done a proper alignment, put 50K front diff oil and 10K rear diff oil
I haven't driven it since though
do you mean when your not on the throttle and your turning there is over steer.. ? that also happened to me a few times.
Old 08-28-2008, 09:50 AM
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Spetz
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?

Yeah there is lift off oversteer
But understeer under light power
And oversteer on high power through corners

Cypriot boy, my tyres are 76mm outer diameter and 35mm wide
Not normal 1/10th scale tyres/wheels
Old 08-28-2008, 11:44 AM
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Default RE: Oversteer and throttle control?


ORIGINAL: Spetz

Yeah there is lift off oversteer
But understeer under light power
And oversteer on high power through corners

Cypriot boy, my tyres are 76mm outer diameter and 35mm wide
Not normal 1/10th scale tyres/wheels
76mm diameter???????? Where did you find them???

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