stevezero

My Feedback: (11)

Hey guys,

I'm looking at getting a sailboat to occupy some lunchtime cruising at work (we have a moderate size retention pond on property at work). It would be my first attempt at a sailboat. I'm not wanting to compete (at least right now), but would like something to teach both myself and daughter basic boathandling and wind reading skills.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks,
Steve

LtDoc

Steve,
As a 'first boat', you don't really want a fast, 'cutting edge' kinda boat. Something slow and easy would be more of what you're looking for. As such, one choice would be a 'VMP' "Snipe". It was my 'first choice' and taught me a lot about sailing. Slow, easy to build and sail, not a bad beginner's boat! I built mine from a 'kit' (I like building), but it's also offered as an already assembled boat. Radio system and the whole 'works'. The people at 'VMC' are very nice and helpful too. It isn't your only choice, but it is a good one...
- 'Doc

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

Listen to LtDoc. That's what I would have recommended myself I've built some Soling 1M's and at least three Victor Snipes. Fun to sail. Small enough to fit in the back seat. Don't forget the battens on the mainsail.

GRANT ED

Just a suggestion. I bought a seawind as my first boat and I love it. Since then 4 other friends have bought one and we race about once a month. (All the people that bought one bought it as their first boat).

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

I have no quarrel with a Seawind. I'd like to haveone myself. I think you miss the point that stevezero made about a little sailing at lunch time is that he needs a small boat that will fit in the trunk and that doesn't need to be unrigged and then set up at the pond. Lunch time sailing would be a limited time at best and setting up a Seawind, Soling 1M, Fairwind or a CR914 would take away from the time he has to spend at the pond. If he later wants to go to a larger yacht to sail when he has a day to spend at the lake then I would recommend a Seawind or any of the yachts mentioned above. For a small boat that will fit in the back seat or the trunk and be pulled out ready to sail on a moments notice I'll still recommend the VMP Snipe.

stevezero

My Feedback: (11)

Thanks for the input guys. Space really isnt too much of a consideration. Ive got a truck with topper, so I can just lay a boat on its side (up to 6ft long, and 52 inches wide.) I actually used to fly quite a bit at lunch, our field was about 10 mins from the office.

I've got a small pond here at work, and a good size pair of ponds at a park across the street. Throw in a sub shop, and good cell coverage, and you can see where some extended lunching might be necessary

Speed/performance isnt really a major issue either. Ive got quite a few years in planes,cars, and some electric/nitro boat experience.

I've also learned to go ahead and get something of high quality, that will grow with me. The low end toys are just that, toys. I'm afraid if I got a toy (nikko, etc), I'd be frustrated and bored really quickly. VMP has some very nice boats, as well as kyosho. Id rather have something that will last, and if I end up moving on, I can recoup some investment.

Steve

CommodoreDave

My Feedback: (1)

I know of a guy who has a REAL NICE VMP Soling one meter for sale. He is a master modeller for over 30 years and also a jeweler. He made some fantastic custom brass fitting for the mast, gooseneck and rigging. It is ready to go complete for only $250.00 and is of a quality that you could definately recoup nearly all (if not MORE than) your investment. He has several nice photos he can send.



HE SOLD THIS SOLING OVER THE WEEKEND. IT IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE

bogordoug

Watch out for sunny days with your "topper". Hull can be deformed easily in the heat buildup in a vehicle. Sails will be utterly ruined. They start to curl at the edges and do other ugly things. If you must. Make sure the sails have absolutely no tension on them and either lay them flat or hang them. with no weight.

Good luck....good fun

Russ Williamson

The Hobbico Aquacraft Paradise is really nice. About 24" long. Like the choice of colors and fiberglass hull. Already built so no work involved........

LtDoc

Steve,
At the 'other' end of the spectrum, you could always try a 'Laser'. About the same size (sort of) as the VMP boats, NOT a basic boat for beginners, and NOT a 'toy'. No building but some assembly at the 'dock', sort of thing. Is it something to learn to sail with? Probably not, but...
- 'Doc

jocolo

My Feedback: (7)

I have a Nirvana from Megatech first rc boat ever and no complaints. Great boat as a Kit or RTRfor 149 from ebay

jocolo

My Feedback: (7)

Her's the Nirvana

wismerhell

my Seawind
http://public.fotki.com/wismerhell/
Wis

Al Stein

Please to excuse my ignorance as the only models I've sailed are EC12s, a half-meter, a Santa Barbara, and a couple of Solings, all designed for racing...

My question is this: when you tell a newbie that he should go with a slow and easy kind of boat, why is that? I've never noticed anything all that hard about any of the model boats I've sailed and when I made a mistake, they always right themselves without any harm anyway. Just wanted to know what differences/benefits people are seeing?

wismerhell

I wonder what boat(s) are you talking ??

Sure , recommending a beginner to get an M or an IOM or why not a 36/600 could be better...but he ll be very surprized when you tell him that he needs 1500 US over....well have seen some 800USD used IOM though...

So why not getting a "toy" like boat..and if he likes it....go get a better one.

Its like a car....my first car wasnt a Ferrari, Porsche or whatever....it was a slow cheap car....which, of course I crashed.

So far, the Fortune (oracle) is a toy boat and I really think that it isnt a good deal, the Nirvana sounds much better...many ppl saying good things (again I ve never seen it)...as for me, and many other ppl, the SW is a great deal...sure you could also get a CR914, any Victor model or whatever!

just my 2 yen

Wis

Al Stein

Thanks Wis -- I was misunderstanding the point.

I was kinda lucky in that I came from a modeling family and started out by building my own, so the only expense I needed to get started was the cost of Balsa wood, glass cloth, etc. Certainly the cost of a molded glass (or kevlar or, even worse, carbon) hull plus purchase prices of sails, rig, controls, etc. would put me off, too!

I was thinking that the issue was how hard or easy the boat is to sail.

I recently spent some time with current EC12 folks and looked at their equipment and they're spending more for a sail servo than the ready-to-sail price of some of the beginner boats mentioned here... so now that I know where the issue is, I completely agree that an inexpensive entry-level setup is the way to get started. Im not sure I understand why some of our equipment is as expensive as it is, but it is, so I'm glad there are afffordable ways to live with it (or should I say to live without it).

LtDoc

Al,
I recomended a 'slow'n'easy' boat for several reasons. The first is to find out if you really wanna do it to start with. If you decide that you don't like it, you don't have a lot invested. Second, (and this depends on the 'person') they are usually easier to 'get out of trouble', slower reaction times, makes figuring out what you 'did wrong' easier, etc. Also, since it doesn't really cost all ~that~ much, people are more willing to experiment, try things, not as worried about sinking a bunch of money in a pond (pun intended). Basically, you're building experience. When you get comfortable with a 'slow' boat, moving 'up' to a faster one is much easier (except on your pocket). And, they are usually quicker to go from the back of the truck to the water, not a lot of setup time which would be nice during a lunch hour.
I don't think there is really a single 'ideal' beginners boat. The boat a beginner ~likes~ is as important as how easy/difficult it may be to setup and sail, not as apt to get discouraged and quit. All boats have characteristics, kinks, qwerks peculiar to that boat, no two boats behave exactly alike. So, each have their 'pros'n'cons', unfortunately, you almost never know what those qualities are before buying. The 'slow/easy/simple' boats tend to have mild tendancies. That helps those of us 'old farts' with slow reaction times, poor eye sight, and who forget to turn the @#$% receiver on before dunking the boat...
- 'Doc

Al Stein

Thanks Doc -- Excellent food for thought in an area that I somehow never thought about... been thru the same issues in aiplanes, but now I see their importance here as well.

That last statement brings it al home, too -- my original Soling is the 36/600 published in the airplane magazines in 1973 and that would be about when I built it, so I'm pretty sure I qualify for the slowing reactions and shortening eyesight, too. It's tyhe memory one that really gets me, though -- I forgot to turn on my sailplane one day and it made one of the best flights of its life (I guess that's one way to prove that I build better than I fly. :-)

houssic

CR914 all the way. Easy and you won't have to worry about wanting more speed. Just tune it a bit and you are ready for 10 mph sailing.

wismerhell

wow you have a super fast boat...
Hull Speed = 1.34 * (LWL)1/2 grin..that would be------------------->2.32 knots------------>2.669808 mph

your boat is about 5times faster, you are a great skipper!!!

Sure, we should tweak the formula a bit...ahhh Reynolds number......

Cheers

Wis

tdonily

My first stint was/is with a Victoria. I've found the hardest issue to be in the tuning. Heck, I'm still learning. This was my first year, and the boat hasn't sunk. Nor has it left the bank without turning the onboard gear on. But I did have my fairleads get wrapped around deck fittings a couple of times giving me a "fried servo" scare. Boy was I glad it just temporarily shut down. Oh, I'm using a Hitec 645MG for the sails, and a 225MG for the steering chores.

J3FAN

I have just now finished reading ALL the posts in this thread. AMAZING !
Mr. LtDoc makes good sense. Some other comments baffle me.
Here is a picture of what I selected to enter Sailboats, without asking for anybody's advise.This was about 2 or 3 years ago !
This is the KYOSHO FAIRWIND, coupled with the Nautical Commander radio. I set up one servo for each sheet, one servo for rudder and HOP into the water.I later heard that the normal advise would have made me attach both sheets to JUST ONE SERVO (standard practice?)
I was sailing ! ... what is there to LEARN ?
The same conditions applied to me as they do for the original threader : I have been doing RC models for a long time (planes, not ever a boat before)
The cost was , shall we say , normal expected for what I bought. Not exhorbitant. Arriving at the LAKE the boat is set up in five (six?) minutes. The hull AND the mast/sails travel well in the back seat of a Buick Regal two door
The only "problem" I can think of involves the switch....how to hide it, operate it, waterproof it.
My advise to the ORIGINAL POSTER is GO FOR IT with what you WANT.......
then ENJOY IT for a long time to come
THE SAME I DID.........
and B.T.W. and before you go thinking I am a young whippersnapper with a big mouth , I am just short of 70 years old.

impeyan

Try the Fairwinds you won't be disappointed. its does need to much to build
don't buy the ballast kit B-Bs are cheaper just mix with Elmers

Joern

Hi,

Excuse me for jumping into the ongoing discussion.

Dear J3FAN,
I read your comment with much interest and think your way of just "go for it" is nice.
Especially, I like your way of using one servo for each sail, which seems not the conventional standard procedure. But I think the idea is brilliant, because nowadays servos are cheap and one servo per sheet can handle the incoming forces of the sheets much better with less sheet ropes (under deck) then with a complicated " 1 servo arrangement".
Therefore:
Could you please kindly let me know some of your experience about your "2 servo arrangement" for sail control?
Do you control them independently, or are they combined into one channel?

Your comment would be highly appreciated.

Thank you, best regards

Joern

Al Stein

Hi Joern --

I must agree with you: sheeting setups are much too complex these days.

I started this hobby before standard servos were strong enough to work the sheets and what we did in those days was much stronger and simpler. The setup we used isn't popular now and it might be hard to get a servo that would drive it (unless you modified or built your own as we did), so using two servos from the same receiver channel and letting each tend one sail seems like the simplest thing one could do.

Tschuss!
AL