e-sailpilot86

I live within walking distance of a lake, short driving distance of a second, and otherwise, I've got lots of lakes available to me. I was going to go with a car but... practicality is another thing. Ihave plans for a Pirate R-11, some 1917 sailboat that seems to be a good size. Looks like a 3-4 foot mast, but it looks heavy/simple to build. You cut out planks of wood, hollowed out, clamp them together with glue, and carve the hull shape. I think it was intended for being dropped off in a pond and to be picked up on the other side. If I can't use that, that's fine. I am itching to scratchbuild. I have plenty of experience with building, no worries there. I have a scrollsaw and I can also sew. I know the winds ok as I flew gliders and model sailplanes for some time. I suppose my main concern, is the regular lack of steady wind where Ilive. When it is steady, it is either pretty slow (5 mph or less), or bringing down trees (50+). Are there any models that can work ok off a 2 mph wind? Like the sailplane equivalent of a low wind, low wing loading floater such as a Gentle Lady or a Paragon?

I have an 8 channel FM radio which I can purchase a surface module for as well. Near as I can tell Iwill probably only need 1 or 2 channels... But it's what I've got.

I see a trimaran kit online, looks like it's low on drag. If I am going to sail in light winds, should I go for low drag?
I really like that tippecanoe trimaran. It looks very slender, I think I could make that compact into a kite like bag and throw it over my shoulder on walks to the lake. It seems a littel too fast at times... lol. Water brake anyone?

mfr02

Its quite legitimate to have several sail rigs to suit conditions.  IOM, Marblehead, R36R all use the idea.  If you intend sailing for your own amusement rather than in competition, you can pick 'n mix what seems useful from various designs.  The important thing is to enjoy yourself.

e-sailpilot86

Are there any books you can recommend on r/c sailboat design?  I see one book, not much design though.

larrykin

Here's a link to the American Model Yachting Association.

www.modelyacht.org/us1m/us1mcons.html

Recommend you download the FREE PDF files for boat construction and design. Sixty five pages of very useful info on 1m rc yacht building, rigging, sailing etc.
Design books - no. Most people use existing plans as we are not all boat design CAD experts. If you want to design your own hull there are a few free programs. Hullform is one. But life is too short. Sofware will takes weeks to learn.

For trimarans there's a short build log on RCGroups. Cut from solid foam by experienced builder. Cross sections of foam hull cut with hot-wire knife ( like a sliced bread roll in reverse ). Glued together to form hulls then sanded and glassed. Looks easy and lightweight. From memory he had plans available.

Larry L.

e-sailpilot86

I've decided on a boat. Thank you for the link on setting up sailboats. I still think I need to know a tad bit more, but I will be alright. I'm going to build this particular design at the same time my father builds his. We'll convert them to R/C. It could not be that hard, I have enough experience. It works as a free-flight (free-sail? I don't know) model, it will work as a remote controlled model. It is the Pirate R-11. Idon't remember where my dad purchased the plans... I just need a few weeks and I'll be cutting and carving pine. If I cannot get sugar pine, what do you recommend as a substitute?

brainox

hi e-pilot,
you might wanna try the victoria or ETNZ (i think), they're good sailboats. you can also build your own or or customize an RTS sailboat.

e-sailpilot86

Got the Victoria nearly done, Just need some radio gear.  It's on some UPS truck at the moment so I have no complaints.  Bought a pretty high torque digital for the sail, a slightly above normal digital servo for the rudder, RDS8000 radio, and I sanded/painted the ABS hull with that plastic bonding-specialty paint that Krylon makes.  The digital servos may be a bit of overkill, but so be it.  I'm thinking about some sort of way to smooth the hull a bit more, and of some possible sail replacements in the future.  I won't be terribly concerned about performance until I consider racing.  Just looking for a lazy day at the lake.

Wax the hull after going over it with 1500 wet sand?  Just not sure at this point.

larrykin

The boat is it still made from sugar pine? ABS plastic sounds like good substitute.

Did you end up buying a Thunder Tiger Victoria? And you've sanded the ABS hull. Thinking of applying wax. Where are you geting these tips on boat building? Waxing the hull? They put wax on surfboards to increase friction. You want a carwax polished finish so you are applying wax? Look fwd to seeing pics of boats. Are there still 2? Dad's building a Pirate -R11, carved pine or plastic kit.

.

e-sailpilot86

In all likelyhood I am not going to wax the paint. More likely (if ever), it will be sanded with fine sandpaper, and polished somehow. I was not considering a thick wax layer for grip, I was thinking smoothing paint. I performed a test on the car wax vs. paint beforehand and it does not work. Rubbing compound if the paint can take it...

The Victoria's hull was sanded in prep for painting, and it has been painted. Dad's building the R-11 which is made from carved sugarpine. Very old design, but it works. The R-11 will be awhile.

BTW, the paint on the Victoria turned out pretty good. Just a slight texture on the deck (still smooth), and even smoother on the hull. Might be able to make it even smother as I am suggesting, assuming the paint chemistry is correct.

Send some wind over here. I'll probably have it sailing by this weekend, and at the least... floating.

When I glue in the radio box, I'm thinking gorilla glue, heavy grit sanding the inside where there will be glue, and/or some fiberglass with epoxy. I don't know how much force that sail will be under, but I figured it was the largest control surface I've very used, so it's getting a 162 oz-in servo (193 on 6v... I'm using a 4 cell) and the rudder is getting a 61 oz-in servo.

e-sailpilot86

Well, it's done, the victoria.  Sorta.  I have the sails sorted out to my capability at this point, it will need some more refining.  I am having trouble with binding where the sail arm servo line passes outside of the cabin, and I am having some trouble getting the sails to unfurl at the same rate.  They're out at the right angle, but I cannot pull them in to the same angle, particularly the main sail.  A little more reading and it should be fine.

I'm surprised how off the suggested line lengths were according to the manual.  The servo control line is far too short, and the sail control line is far too long...  Maybe I got the two mixed up, I don't know.  Those knots are a pain.  [&:]

How many of you had to adjust the servo end point in your radio to get the sails to work right?  I want to make sure I am doing this right, figuring it is intended for basic 2 channel AM radios it would use the full 100% servo travel.  BTW, I'm glad I bought the digital servos, and I'd say the 160 oz in sail servo is fine, but it is either the minimum or ideal torque for the sail.

I also think I want a replacement, more sturdy version of the rudder linkage, the plastic flops around a lot.

larrykin

Here is a link to the
"Step-by-Step Victoria Radio Controlled Sailing Yacht construction manual"
www.okanaganmodelsailboat.org/Index1.html

and here is a link to the Victora Resource Center.
www.victoriarc.org/index.html

e-sailpilot86

I am really surprised by how much effort is going into making the boat go faster... That's competition for ya!

I brought it out to the lake about an hour ago... sails great! Probably a dog in comparison to the others as it is several ounces or grams heavier with the stock equipment, but its fun! [8D]

I don't quite get the idea that Alkalines hold up better to current than rechargeables... They're 1.5v not 1.2v, and while alkaline ultimately last longer than anything rechargeable for endurance under low current... I have to say every experience I've had with model aircraft batteries tells me quite the contrary but ok. The boat still floats.

I'll see if Ican upload a picture of it sailing.

I did not expect the wind to shift around so much, the wind is just over the lake while all the tall pines block wind from getting anywhere else. It was somewhat irregular and made for an interesting learning experience.

You can see a photo of my Victoria sailing on our local lake by looking at my RCU marina and hover your mouse over the image for a larger view:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/...ls&type=Marina





There must have been thermals blowing through the area, about 10 minutes into the first launching Igot hit by a gust that blew the tip of the mast to within a foot of the water for a moment... I know well enough now how to keep that from happening.

Paulvive

I just read in this forum that a new club is starting up in Land O Lakes

matadco

My Feedback: (1)

Back in the early '90s I bought a sailboat from Tower Hobbies. I really don't remember the kit maker but it was about 36" long and from the bottom of the keel to top of mask was about 4-41/2 ft. At the time I had never built a sail boat but was experienced in RC air planes. ARFS were not available then. I added an auxiliary electric motor for a 3rd servo channel, weighted the keel with a couple pounds of shot toped off with epoxy for stability. It was, for me, quite a project to complete but it looked and sailed great, or at least I thought it did. I painted it with 2 part epoxy paint. After a while I gave it to my son and 5 year old grand son who promptly sunk and lost it. I thought it was unsinkable but that boy could tear up a cast iron ball as a kid and never out grew it. Does anyone know if these kits are still available and where? I now live close to some ponds and would like to build another like that one for a change of pace from air planes.

boomer1

My Feedback: (1)

Wow! Going to be hard to replace. If you had a picture we might be able to make some suggestions. Was it a kit? Models come and go, so it is hard to image which boat it could have been.

There are many good choices for a replacement available today and there are always pre-owner models for sale on the RC fourms like this one, or rcgroups.com or even on E-bay. You just have to monitor the ads on a regular bases to find one you like.

Here is a link to a list of kit builders you can take a look at for starters. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=767639
You can visit the AMYA website to review the different boats listed there for ideas. Here is a link: http://www.theamya.org/

I wish you luck in finding another one. Might be better just to move on and get into a newer boat. Suggest you visit rcgroups.com sailboat section to read up on boats that are being sailed today. Suggestions might include: DF 65, CR914, Seawind, Victoria, Micro Magic, Nirvana ll, Fairwind, Victor Models has loads of choices (kits) Tippicanoe (kits) all winners. The rcgroups site is many times more active than this forums sail boat section and a great resource for you.

Posted a few pictures for you to give you some ideas.

Boomer

matadco

My Feedback: (1)

Boomer, thanks for the reply. I do have one photo but it was showing the boat on the lake and some distance from shore. However, looking at the photos you posted it looks very close to the Fairwinds III. Unfortunately, the page to Fairwinds shows no longer available so I'm guessing the boat is also no longer available. From photos of today boats their keelfin are more narrow where the one I had was somewhat larger, similar to the Fairwinds III. In fact Fairwinds sounds right. If memory serves I think the kit was a Kyosho. The electric motor was not included nor called for but jerry-riged by me. Did not want to depend on the wind to get back to shore. It was not a racing boat but fun to just casually sail around then motor to shore and reverse to keep the hull from running onto the rocks. Anyway if anyone knows of one for sale I might be a buyer.
matadco

boomer1

My Feedback: (1)

If you monitor E-bay (rc sailboats) and the classified boat section of rcgroups.com a Fairwind kit is very likely to show up. As I mentioned you need one in kit forum since once one has been built you would find it nearly impossible to get any of the ballast out of the keel.
Here is a fully assembled Fairwind on E-bay if you are interested http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kyosho-fairw...item462036f36b
Boomer

mfr02

For a Victoria the servos used are probably overkill, but each to his own. I found that the best arrangement for rigging the servo arm was to ensure that when the arm was fully in, the running line should be as near to the line of the arm as possible. When let out, you get what you get. I replaced all of the running rigging line with some braided fishing line ("Salmon Backing"). The low surface friction combined with deburring any holes it passes through got rid of the low wind problems. While the line measuring instructions are best forgotten, I did find that the fitting measurements work very well.
I recently changed my arm servo for a small shrouded winch. That just sits there and works, no drama, no problems, probably because by dumb luck I am using the right kind of line.
Batteries. I usually use rechargeable cells, but my 2.4GHz TX prefers the extra bit of voltage that dry cells give. I can live with that. I have a sailing buddy who has only recently started. He has this strange insistence that he will run the RX on dry cells, and keeps running into problems. While alkaline cells do store a lot of energy, they are not suited to letting it out rapidly, which is what a servo demands. They very soon get to the point where getting the sail control to do work will drop the voltage below the point where the rest of the system will work.
Do the initial setting close hauled, the tip of the main boom should sit over the side of the hull. The tip of the jib boom should be the same distance, but it will present a larger angle. This is the only really critical bit as it has a profound effect on tacking ability. Letting the sails out, you get what you get and it will be near enough just using the measurements in the instructions.

boomer1

My Feedback: (1)

To help you setting up your sails I posted a simple diagram that should get you started and on the right track to have the set up you are looking for. Let me know if you have trouble opening this file. It is a standard pdf. and shouldn't present a problem.

Boomer