abufletcher

Very interesting...and glad to be corrected!

Mein Duff

Excellent info from The Aerodrome website about the SE5 flying attitude...every week I learn something else about this classic ! Thanks for that link...If Dan San Abbott says its true then it must be. I have seen the F904 flying at Old Warden but didn't notice the flying attitude at the time.
Abu...as to machine guns and weight, remember that the SE5 also had 3 reserve machine gun drums stored under the dash during combat i ..giving almost 400 rounds total. Also add the wind resistance of the Lewis gun plus the extra weight of the top wing mount and sliding rail and you are about even with a Vickers weight wise.
I think one of the options was to have the Lewis fire at an upward angle "get em in the soft under belly boys"...there are a few photos of this set up but doubt that it was used in combat much. Probably having the Lewis was and added reliability factor of sorts in that it might have been easier to clear jams from that gun.

heres a few more recent pics...I really hope to have this bird finished this year but have resigned myself that it will be done when its done..can't rush anything at this point.
on the SE5 it seems that every piece becomes a project in some sense, but this is true of all real scale building considering weight and functionality and materials to be used.

Still working full time ( but retiring end of this year!) doesn't leave me much time for building so I haven't done a thread on this machine...just not enough time...plus I'd rather just read Abu's great threads instead.

abufletcher

Hmm...clearly you've been "gettin' the job done" and building, while I've been talking! Each little part of your model is a mini-massterpiece. I would have thought the cockpit was full-scale.

FireBee

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Abu, 3136, Mein-Duff,
As to right side "odd" shape of the Lewis gun. I watched the you tube video again and from a short sequence around (2:30 to 2:50 marks) the casings fly out well forward and at a downward angle. I do not think shap is for hot brass deflections.

My theory for your consideration is:
This was orig designed as an infantry gun. Thus mud and dirt was another hazard. Extra shape to starboard side simply allowed the gun to be laid down and keep the trigger and other parts/mechanisms from resting on the ground and getting jamed. Additionally you could quickly grab as it was resting slightly off the ground.

Flying Fox

- then you will finally be able to sit on your 'duff' ... and do more flying & scale building of course. Hang in there!

Thanks for posting those pics, I suspected high quality but this is fantastic, you are clearly a master builder - that's museum scale quality you have there. Can't tell if it's full size or not. I sure wish you had posted the build but thanks for sharing what you have. It looks great!

Do you use lithoplate or some other kind of thin aluminum sheet/plate? I can't find litho-plate but thought I'd try aluminum eaves trough flashing material.

Can you imagine on top of just trying to fly these machines... in the midst of a combat melee... you manage to get on an opponent's tail just long enough to squeeze off the last few rounds in the canister... then try to retract the Lewis gun back on its rack, stay on your opponent's tail, remove the ammo canister, grab the new one ... now try to relocate the opponent ... now enemy shots whizzing by as you realize there's someone on your tail now ... wrench the stick and rudder hard over ... hold on to the ammo canister ... look around to locate opponent and get him off your tail... reload canister...maybe look around some more...return Lewis gun to forward position... now try to figure out where everyone in the melee has gone and why you are all alone in the sky... damn ammo canister...

Bri

FireBee

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Mien-Duff,

Wow! At quick glance I too thought pics were a full scale cockpit. I went back to your post and really looked at your cockpit.
What you have created is a miniature replica. Excellent work.

abufletcher

I've read descriptions of pilots flying "with their knees" while changing this cartridges. I'd have said that that is impossible, but how many times have you (or I) steered our car with our knees while unboxing that BigMac? I also like the (apparently true) story of the pilot who was changing the drum when his plane was abruptly flipped upside down and he was left dangling feet out of the cockpit entirely by the half disengaged drum.

Mein Duff

I think actuall combat was a bit different than we imagine...remember you also still had your Vickers pumping away with 400 hundred rounds ( two triggers on the column).
Probably to change drums they would fly out of the immediate combat area to a safe distance away to do change the drums, I imagine they had to stabiliz the plane with their knees ( but the SE5 was like a trainer to fly they say and very stable). They still had to stow the empty drum away and fasten it under the dash as well as dig out a new one!
I think the gun handle was within arms reach so they could stretch up release the trigger release cord ( did they need to release their harness???) which released the gun to slide backwards and down...but then had to deal with 100 mph winds and the flat surface of the drum in the airstream. Can you imagine the strength and and agility needed to do all this in the freezing cold and with bulky clothing...must have been very exhausting and nerve wracking.

OK now back to the party...where's that damn hun gone now?[>:]

Mein Duff

Mike I think your idea is very plausible...makes sense...keeping it out of the dirt and muck.. I have quite a few detail internal drawings of the Lewis now and will look closer to see if I can get a better idea of what this buldge does.

Mein Duff

[quote]ORIGINAL: Flying Fox

Bri.. I use whatever I can get my hands on...so I have collected many different guages of alu over the years including Lithoplate...they all come in handy at different times.
One new technique I recently discovered is using JB WELD and aluminum together. JB really is stronger than 5 min epoxy especially when you rough up the back side to be glued. Jb dries like stone in about 24 hrs so you can drill and file it. It is fairly thick to work with but you can thin it a bit with acetone or alcohol for easier spreading, but makes it slightly less hard. I will be using JB on the Lewis gun rear handle area and sculpt it with a dremel bit when hardened.

I have quite a bit of Lithoplate...if you give me your address I can send you a few 8.5 x 11 sheets. its almost paper thin and dents very easily.

abufletcher

This doesn't sound much like the "lithoplate" that I have. The sheets I picked up for free at a small printing shop are about 4 times that size and are about 0.3mm thick. But it is softer than the 0.3mm aluminum sheets I can buy in the hardware store. I suspect that the lithoplate has more tin in the mix.

Mein Duff

Thickness sounds about right...I need to measure the ones I have... thicker than paper but the thinest I have in stock.. I'm saying 8.5 x 11 so I can cut them and send them easily. I haven't used mine for anything yet..they may be softer as you say. At 1/4 scale I am using .3 mm and . 5mm mostly for panels / hinges etc.

abufletcher

I've used both 0.3mm lithoplate and 0.3mm aluminum sheeting and the lithoplate is definitely more pliable. After it's been annealed usually all you need is thumb-pressure to make it conform to a mold or curve it into position. That's not true to the same degree with the "hobby store" type aluminum sheet. And roofing flashing is virtually unusable. Normally the flashing has been galvanized.

Unfortunately, I'm now starting to run short of my stock of lithoplate and fear for the future! More and more of the smaller print shops which still do this sort of printing are going out of business in Southern Cal, a lot of places are turning to fully computerized printing processes, and the large printing houses have started recycling their used lithoplate. BTW, I've tried to find a retailer for new lithoplate but haven't found one yet.

geezeraviation

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Ally sheet softness/hardness depends on the alloy 1100 pure aluminum is very soft and pliable. Aircraft Spruce will send a catalog (used to be free?) and there is a section on metals that explaines the different alloys, common uses, formability, weldability, etc.... very informative and helpful when ordering metals.
Doc

TFF

You mean there are people who dont have Aircraft Spruce catalogs? The online misses the info sections. An old SIG catalog from the 80's is great too.

Flying Fox

How 'd you like to be this unlucky sod? Apparently designed to enable the successful attack of Zeppelins!
Can't image how one could ever get up enough nerve to crawl out of the forward cockpit into this position, properly brace for the buffeting of the slipstream, and then stand there in the freezing cold of high altitude long enough to appraoch the Zeppelin and fire accurately. What about a gun jamb... or evasive manouevers if the Zep returns fire.

I will check a couple more print shops for litho (no luck yet) and them PM you. Thanks for the kind offer.
Bri

TFF

The question is, is he the pilot too! Then it would take extra guts to crawl out.

Mein Duff

Looks like he has a wind divider / deflector of some sort...also a metal cage to stop him from falling over the side... probably had some way of locking his controls for level flight before stepping up to the gun...yes, they were different breed of men back then.
What kind of aircraft is that?? early Nieuport??..maybe it was a double seater?..great shot !

Mein Duff

Heres some new pics of my progress so far on the 1/4 scale LEWIS.....progress is slow for me as usual...I am now working on the drum and hope to have this finished in a few more days.
I can't wait to see how it all looks painted matt black and rubbed with graphite etc....then its on to the mounting hardware for install on top wing.

Also a pic of my 1948 Pontiac next to a large Tonka Toy .....and our flying field here in Petaluma, Ca....just had the strip graded..sooo smooth

Flying Fox

Not sure what plane that was, just found the pic while reading about Zeppelin hunting on the web. It would make a rather unique scale model subject if you could do the pilot/gunner up nicely! There is a logo on the propeller but I can't tell which company.

Nice Pontiac - how do you fit your planes in it? Got to love that flat open expanse for the flying field, no worries when you're on final. I'll bet you can just grease them in really nicely. So do you fly in the winter as well?

Lewis gun is coming along really well. I agree, these things can look a little strange at first as you assemble them from various bits and pieces (no matter where you get them from [&:] - and some of us are not as picky about the source) but once you get the paint on and a bit of weathering it seems to magically transform them.

Nice work with the lithoplate, did you also glue on small aluminum 'bumps' onto the litho just above grip area? or did you file it down?

I appreciate that you post photos that allow the viewer to blow them up to see the detail. I try to do that too. In doing so it reveals our workmanship and flaws, but I really find when other guys do this it helps you understand/see how it is done.

Keep up the great work !
Cheers,
Bri

iflytailies

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Available soon: 1/4 scale Lewis Mk II machine gun. First available as a kit, later also assembled & painted. Send PM to preorder.

1/3 scale is in the works.

abufletcher

That's wonderful news! What's the estimate for the cost of the kit? Actually, a plastic model kit of the earlier mark without the jacket would also be a welcome addition for 1/4 scale modelers.

But, Eric, there's nothing quite like knowing you made it entirely yourself...and knowing you've done such a good job of it!

iflytailies

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See here: http://www.iflytailies.com/store/mac...un-imitations/

Mein Duff

That looks like a very sharp and detailed enough gun kit, ( injection molding ) Like Abu says, if you could offer it, to be able to be modified in the two most used versions, that would make it even more desirable for the price. There is great satisfaction in making your own gun...but may be quite a challenge for the beginning scale builder to attempt a decent version from scratch.. But then again that is the point of scale building to a degree......not just building a "KIT" like everybody else's, but modifying and adding those convincing details particular to all aircraft and in this case.. guns......there were many models and field modifications done to the Lewis guns.
I have spent about 40 hrs so far on mine and it still has more time on the clock.
I do have the satisfaction of knowing that every detail was scrutinized and done as accurately as possible by going over all the available documentation and cross referencing all the measurements. As close as one can get without having the original on hand. I would be disappointed if a kit fell short in any area as most do from what I've seen.
Thanks for bringing a decent kit to the market, looking forward to getting one in the future.

R/C Ray

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Geezer,

I hope you forgive me for this question. I really like your "STITCHING" on your SE5. could you let me in on your method....thanks!

Ray.