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Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

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Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Old 02-27-2013, 07:12 AM
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Sparkie-RCU
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Default Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

This bird has been on my build list far too long and I have set my own design work aside to relax and get it done.
I'll approach it the way I have done all my models , making as many parts for it as I can within reason.

To get started I made patterns from the plans I have had for a long while and spent a day at the saw.
I know there is a laser cut set available for this model but I prefer choosing my own wood.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:17 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Wings do it for me so I started there.

Yep, I build old school.
That’s wood glue there, CA has its place but this glue is much less brittle and makes a better bond.

I'm going with this big air tank rather than the two tank opinion. ( less chances for leaks. )
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:53 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

There's nothing wrong with old school Sparkie! I very much look forward to your build. I have heard Ziroli designs can be complicated but they are well thought out and excellent when it comes to scale.
Old 02-27-2013, 08:18 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Well thought as is.
However I bought the sierra retracts because I've had trouble with leaks with the Robart stuff and these tend to be lighter any way. . . .look a little better too. [8D]

http://www.ziroliplans.com/zirolipla..._frameset.html

The problem is they do not fit the model if you go by the plans.[:'(]
You would think for $480 they would send you rib patterns to make the modifications with.
I thought that since Nick offers them on his site that they would fit his design or at least have a note that modifications has to be made.

No big deal, just a little wasted money since the aircraft ply ribs had already been cut.

Since I didn't understand how the Sierra retracts could possibly fit did a dry fit of the ribs first and quickly learned it was back to the drawing board.

compare the outboard ribs and you will see.
This also effects the outer wing panels.

Note the carbon fiber "insurance" I put along the top of the rib
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:26 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

BTW, The guys at Sierria must be too close to their project as well.
Look at the axle on the gear.
Must be taken from another set they already make because they can't work here.

How small would the tire have to be and not rub the strut?
I had to make spacers and buy aircraft grade bolts to make the wheel I need work on the this unit.

it's the little things they miss that make us good modelers.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched


ORIGINAL: Sparkie-RCU


it's the little things they miss that make us good modelers.
AMEN! I'm surprise Ziroli doesn't warn you about the needed modifications even Top Flite does that on their kits!
Old 02-27-2013, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

I love that all the retract equipment is in the wing, no quick disconnects to leak .

I made a panel in the top of the wing to gain entry to the service port and the pressure indicator.
Should make things easier at the field.


I heard that the wood alignment dowel can split causing wing separation from the plane.
I went with a brass tube even though the retracts help lock the wing in its position.

almost ready for sheeting

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Old 02-27-2013, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

There must be 100 ways to keep the wings on , I went with a tapered hook on this one.
( the plans have no provisions to secure the wings that I have found. could have missed it though )

As the bolt enters the wing it engages the tapered side of the hook and applies inward pressure.
There are two for redundancy.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:06 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Sparkie,

You're going to love that plane! I built mine about 9 years ago and it has hundreds of flights on it. It's a model I can always rely on. If anything really bad happens to it I will start another one immediately.

Jim
Old 02-27-2013, 09:25 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Sparkie what kind of adhesive are you using? I'm talking about the blue colored adhesive.
Old 02-27-2013, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Tmoth, I have referred to your thread several times thanks for posting it.
I watched the design perform at the Nats and scale masters when I was competing.
Greg Hahn piloted the design and put on a fantastic show with it.
I knew I would build one then.

The blue stuff is a light weight epoxy putty made by the 3M company.
It mixes 50/50 and takes about two days to set up completely.
It sands and weighs like balsa though.
The stuff is expensive though , a one pint kit runs $40
I got it from a aircraft home builders website about 3 years ago.
Wish I had a link for you , I'm getting low and have looked several times already.

The dark gray stuff is JB weld.
Old 02-27-2013, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Is there a number on the blue stuff can? I was taking a quick look and I couldn't find a long work time adhesive in blue.

The trade name is "Scotch Weld" and they have a ton of flavors for different industries.
Old 02-27-2013, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Yes, scotch weld no number though.
After reading the MSDS on the product I wouldn't expect any one in their right mind that would sell it.
I wear rubber gloves and a mask just to open the package.
Turns out it will attack your liver if given a chance.
They even warn against sanding it so it is still bad stuff when it is set up.

If you find some be careful.
Old 02-27-2013, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

here you go.
they have local product locator to the left.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...glRF5NR88PV3bl
Old 03-01-2013, 07:35 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

I have been shut down[:@]
I try to post a photo and it shows

500- internal server error
There is a problem with the resource you are looking for and cannot be displayed


This even shows up when I tried to post a photo that I have already posted.

Problems like this is why my RC universe posts are only at 145.[] It's not bad enough that I have to alter my photos to get them on RC universe but now I have to deal with this.
They should look at RC groups to see what they are doing there, fast, easy, trouble free posting.

I'll keep trying from day to day and will get back to you when the issue has been fixed.[&o]
Old 03-01-2013, 08:06 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

I agree it's annoying. The problem usually resolves itself in a day (or sometimes a few hours). It was so bad for a while that I did do my last build on RC Groups, but then returned to RCU to finish up a previously started project...and found that the photo upload problems had become less frequent.
Old 03-01-2013, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Don't despair![X(] I have had that happen to me a few times and it ususually resolves itself by the next day.

Jim

BTW, I was also inspired by Greg Hahn's Dauntless and that's why I finally built one.
Old 03-01-2013, 08:51 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

For a while (because of the lack of photos) I thought that modelers that post on RC universe was just lazy or didn't take shots of their projects.
Then I ran a thread and learned that I had to resize all the photos only to have them kicked back because of some reason.
Since I take shots I guess that makes me lazy but computer time equals non shop time and I'd rather be building or flying.


I went this direction ( RCU ) because I believe this is where the "gas" builders hang out and I may need help or a nudge in the right direction.
Questions I may have will help the next guy going down this road as well.
Also the " scale rivet counting attitude" is at a decent level and not the dominant concern here.

So stick around.
I can work the Dauntless or my website stock while they work it out.[8D]
www.parkflyerplastics.com
Old 03-01-2013, 10:36 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

A little off topic here, has anyone hear used Flite Metal's Rosy riveter kit to make their rivets? I trying to decide if I want to devote the time to adding rivets and this set looks idiot proof.
Old 03-04-2013, 04:30 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

While I was matching up the wing panels I checked for any warps or twist in the wing frame.
Turns out there was a 1.5 degree difference in the outer panels.
I took my measurements and used them when I added the top sheeting since that step locks in wing angles.
There is still a chance to make corrections when the bottom sheeting goes in place but any changes would require much more pressure and build in wing stress .

I prefer using weights for my clamp pressure.
It is faster, no pins to deal with and prevents "power line sag" in the skin between the ribs if they are marked properly.
Note the red marks on the table ( LE ) and the tape strip ( TE )

The angles fell right on the money so it's time to work the servo mounts.

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Old 03-04-2013, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

if your model has wing slots build them!
I know it's a pain but they keep the ailerons from getting mushy at slow speeds.
I felt the need to add cap strips to the slot ribs. The balsa the caps are made with is harder than the ribs so they will be tougher.
I also added a thin strip of carbon fiber to the very thin trailing edge of the slot.
It would just be my luck to lift the panel one day and hear it crack. the repair would be hard to the strip is just insurance.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

After all that drilling I was looking for a sure fire way to keep the panel from warping.
I've worked with thin material before so this was my approach.
I taped glass cloth to a waxed mirror keeping it snug, I applied resin to the cloth and placed the assembled panels on the glass cloth.
A plastic sheet was placed over the panels and sandbags was used to apply pressure.
The photo shows how smooth the panels came out. almost no sanding was required.

Yes, that is the fuselage there on the ceiling: I'll get to that soon enough.
I spent several hours checking their alignment and operation.
The aluminum control horns was made from angle stock , the Robart horns seemed too thin to me to be dependable.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

I'm really enjoying watching you build...even though I don't build WWII stuff myself. You're clearly a builder who knows what he's doing!
Old 03-05-2013, 06:30 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

What thickness of material did you use for the air brakes? I have to build something with a contour and I'm still looking for ideas. Here are a couple of pictures showing my air brake. This airplane has no flaps just the air brake. It was designed in 1937 so the metal fuselage and air brake were relatively new ideas for small civilian aircraft!
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: Ziroli SBD Dauntless / scratched

Flyer,
I have made quite a bit of progress on a Bates 85" SBD and did my dive brakes from 1/16th ply and glass top and bottom much as Sparkie. I hoped to avoid warps and twists. Well they have developed a bow in the trailing edge anyhow. You have an opportunity with the curved surface to make them much stiffer than the flat brakes on the SBD. I would make a mold, probably for contact with the exterior of your brake and then lay up fiberglass cloth in it. I assume there are some chord-wise ribs as on the SBD. I would add these while on the mold. Maybe a strip of carbon fiber along the trailing edge. The glass will get heavy very quickly, so I would put down a couple pieces of glass, then a layer of 1/16th balsa, then a couple more glass. I wish i had made my SBD brakes from G-10, but I'm not going back now.
Chuck

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