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Half Scale Nieuport 11

Old 12-19-2013, 04:15 PM
  #26  
geezeraviation
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Art, long time no watch. Dont spend much time over here especially since the re config or whatever. I dont get notices of anything I was subscribed to any more but you know how much I like looking over your shoulder so I'm going to subscribe and see what happens. Great project and I Hope to see it in Dayton in Sept.Doc
Old 12-19-2013, 07:03 PM
  #27  
R/C Art
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Hi Doc

The site seems to be working much better now.......so far, so good. Glad to have you aboard.
Merry Christmas,
Art
Old 12-19-2013, 07:16 PM
  #28  
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Doc, are you going to Dayton in September? This will be my fourth trip, this one is the high-lite of the year wouldn't miss it.

Rich
Old 12-20-2013, 04:02 PM
  #29  
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Interesting project Art. What ever happened to the DH-2 project? Merry Christmas to you and Rhonda.
Old 12-20-2013, 06:28 PM
  #30  
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Art, and a Merry Christmas back to you and Rhonda. The hot link doesnt work when I get a notification any more and I suppose if I knew anything about this infernal machine I could fix it but alas Im in the Dummies category At least I can copy and paste so it isnt a total loss.
Rich, yes planninmg on Dayton in Sept. It's going to be a huge deal and not to miss.
I'm going to the Blue Max next month in the Orlando area, been flying the big N28 a good bit lately and am enjoying it
Doc
Old 12-20-2013, 08:55 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by semeraro
Interesting project Art. What ever happened to the DH-2 project? Merry Christmas to you and Rhonda.
It got delayed by a Hergot, an Eindecker, a DR1 and now by a half scale N-11........what can I say (but I did pick up a pusher prop for it just the other day)......I do intend to get back on it someday.
Old 12-21-2013, 03:58 PM
  #32  
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I finally got all of the balsa and a/c ply stripped and have actually started forming and gluing wood. I laid down some plastic and then covered the edges of the form with Saran Wrap.

The laminations around the elevator form have been wetted on the corners where they need to bend and then pinned in place. I wet it just enough to allow the wood to bend without cracking or breaking. Things should be dry enough tomorrow to slather on the glue and re-pin to the form.

The long straight lamination is for the elevator leading edges and is already glued. I will give it a couple of days to ensure that it is totally dry. Nothing worse than pulling a lamination off of the table before the glue is fully dried and then coming back the next day to find the piece warped out of shape.

The glue I am using is Gorilla glue (plain ol' wood glue) thinned ever so slightly with water. This makes it a little easier to paint the glue onto the individual laminations. I use an acid brush as an applicator.
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:04 AM
  #33  
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Great project Art. Enjoyed seeing it in person at the annual Shelton Christmas shindig last weekend.

I'm curious though, what's the advantage of forming your lamination, letting them dry them gluing? I've always just wetted, slapped on some glue and fitted them around my form (smaller scale though). Getting ready to do my tail feathers for the 1/4 Albi, and if your method is better (which I'm certain it is), I'll try it. Thanks!

Last edited by Lucky Dog; 12-22-2013 at 08:56 AM.
Old 12-22-2013, 08:03 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Lucky Dog
Great project Art. Enjoyed seeing it in person at the annual Shelton Christmas shindig last weekend.

I'm curious though, what's the advantage of forming your lamination, letting them dry them gluing? I've always just wetted, slapped on some glue and fitted them around my form (smaller scale though). Getting ready to do my tail feathers for the 1/4 Albi, and if your method is better, I'll try it. Thanks!
It's probably just a matter of personal preference, but I will explain my thoughts on the subject.

When I laid up the laminations for the tail feathers on my 1/3 scale N-11 I first soaked the pieces of wood in an ammonia/water solution overnight. They were very wet as to be expected......then I applied the glue and pinned them around the form. It took days, and I do mean days and then finally I had to flip my form over and pin the laminate back around the form just to get the bottom to fully dry.

I then attempted to just soak the pieces for a couple of hours, had a drying problem (not as drastic), but lived with it on the project. I made 3 or 4 sets of tail feather outlines and did not like the process much, but loved the finished product.

In addition to the mentioned problems, with the wood being totally soaked the expansion and drying properties were different (balsa versus a/c ply) and there were gaps between some of the laminations which I had to address - re-glue then squeeze real tight or in extreme separations use a filler/glue solution.

On my Balsa USA 1/3 scale DR1, I found that the kit version of the stab/elevator was rather weak and I actually broke the stab in two places and the elevator in one place.....this was just handling it trying to get a maiden flight on it. Maybe I'm slightly rough in handling my birds, but this isn't my first experience with size model. So I busted off the stab/elevators and tossed them and made a lamination similar to what you see on this plane. A little smaller and a few less layers.........

to make a long story short (or is it too late for that?) I experimented a bit and stumbled onto the method that I an using on this project.

It is easier for me.........less messy.......takes a shorter time to fully dry......and the part is much more stable when dry.......and no separations anywhere......

Its a long process, but I definitely like the end result.
Old 12-22-2013, 08:15 AM
  #35  
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Now its time to show some of the process that I described on the above post.


I unpinned the dried laminates.

Pinned the first layer onto the form.

Lathered the second layer with glue.

Took out the pins around the first layer.

Pinned the second layer to the form.

Lathered up the third layer with glue.

Unpinned the previous layer.

Pinned the third layer in place.

And so it goes until all layers are glued and pinned around the form.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:17 AM
  #36  
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more pictures

I use 40 to 50 pins to secure each laminate.........I pin and then unpin each layer.......that's about 1300 times I stick in and then remove them!
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Last edited by R/C Art; 12-22-2013 at 08:25 AM.
Old 12-22-2013, 08:28 AM
  #37  
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Very interesting. Want to just make two of these while you are at it?
Old 12-22-2013, 09:15 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by OldScaleGuy
Very interesting. Want to just make two of these while you are at it?
Steve - ABSOLUTELY !

(I hope he means elevator halves and not AIRPLANES !)
Old 12-22-2013, 09:23 AM
  #39  
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Airplanes of course!
Old 12-22-2013, 11:09 AM
  #40  
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No, I don't think so.
Old 12-24-2013, 06:35 PM
  #41  
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The first two laminated parts came off the board today........one is usable and the other is junk. The elevator outline glued up and stayed pretty much where it was pinned. The straight section which was to be used as elevator leading edges came off the board bowed in two different directions and the layers were leaning rather than perpendicular to the building board.



The second elevator outline has been wetted on the bends with plain water and pinned to the form to dry. If I get a chance for some shop time in the morning before all the family gets here for the gala family Christmas, I will get it glued and pinned back on the board (providing it is dry enough). If not, then I will get to it later in the week.



Also I plan to experiment a little bit with CA (both thin and thick) and epoxy to see if I can get the straight sections glued up...... well, er, straight.
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:33 AM
  #42  
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Merry Christmas!

The outline was dry and I had a little time this morning before all the hustle and bustle begins. I managed to glue up the second elevator outline.
I used white glue again.

It is not difficult to accomplish........patience and attention to detail are the operative words here. Apply enough glue but not too much (it will get messy quick). Keep a wetted paper towel on the ready to wipe any excess away before it becomes a problem. Take your time, but don't dilly dally either.......you don't want the white glue to skin over before you get it pinned to the form or it won't soak into the wood properly and the finished piece won't be as strong as it could be.

Once you get started, a rhythm gets established and before you know it - you're finished........about a one and a half hours for this one. But don't worry if you get interrupted, a delay in between layers is not a problem. When time permits, just pick up where you left off.
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:46 AM
  #43  
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Merry Christmas Art and Rhonda. The elevator outline looks great.
Old 12-25-2013, 12:45 PM
  #44  
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Merry Christmas Sir Art and Lady Rhonda.
Old 12-25-2013, 07:02 PM
  #45  
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Thanks Steve and Allen........and a Happy New Year, too!
Old 12-25-2013, 08:05 PM
  #46  
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From the east part of the country Merry Christmas - Happy New Year Art and to the wife Rhonda! Thanks for the update & pics

Jim
Old 12-26-2013, 07:10 AM
  #47  
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Thanks Jim..........see ya at the field (somewhere).
Old 12-27-2013, 08:21 AM
  #48  
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The second elevator piece came off the form.....dry and straight - a very usable piece.

I started on the stab outline......the first two layers are 1/16" balsa with thin CA wicked between them. The leading edge of the stab is longer than the 48" lengths that I have to work with, so I have to piece them together. I have staggered the joints, locating them on a straight section of the stab and also on opposite sides.

The next layer is 1/32" a/c plywood. It too, has to be joined. Because I feel that the plywood layers add greatly to the strength of the laminated parts I am gluing the extra length needed with a joiner made of two pieces of 1/32" ply. Two pieces are used so that the next layer of 1/16" balsa will match evenly with the joiners.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:47 PM
  #49  
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I played with the CA, using medium on each piece which layed up against the plywood.......and then wicked thin on the last 3 layers of balsa.

It came out ok, but it kicked off a lot of fumes.......and stuck to the plastic, through the pin holes in the plastic onto the building board....my fingers stuck together needing some acetone to get them apart. It doesn't take as long but it sure has it's drawbacks and is considerably more costly.

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Old 12-28-2013, 10:17 AM
  #50  
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I did some more testing. I layered several layers of balsa and ply......pinned it to my building board and wicked thin CA into all the joints - no medium CA at all. When I pulled it off the board and tried to pull it apart, it didn't budge. I had to used a chisel blade to break the layers apart.



Here's hoping I kept the layers together tightly enough to form a good bond on the rudder outline.

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Last edited by R/C Art; 12-28-2013 at 10:59 AM.

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