1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
02-18-2004, 03:26 AM
#26
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RE: 1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
Hi All,
I'm trying to find some cockpit shots for my standoff scale eiii.
any ideas?
ps ignore the pilot...
I'm trying to find some cockpit shots for my standoff scale eiii.
any ideas?
ps ignore the pilot...
02-18-2004, 03:42 AM
#27
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RE: 1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
ORIGINAL: R/C Art
Art here again. I forgot to mention that my 1/3 scale E-1 is loosely based on the 1/4 scale Bob Holman plans for the Eindecker E-III. The "undercarriage" details are very nicely illustrated. On your smaller scale project, I suspect that simple soft soldiering would be adequate to reproduce the landing gear to be scale, functional and strong enough. You have done very nice work so far. I bent my gear out of music wire in 1/4 and 3/16 inch sizes. There are not sprung, but are adequate to land the 37 plus pounds of airplane. Wing warping on mine is about and inch and a half each direction, maybe a little less. It is affective but rather slow. I turn with both rudder and aileron, uh I mean wing warping. The wing warping is more importantly used to level the plane after a bank. The rudder tends to not want to level the plane very well because of lack of dihedral. The controls on elevator and rudder are very responsive otherwise. I had seven flights on mine last fall, then dissassembled it and have been trying to finish the scale appointments and do some painting and marking and stuff......is a scale airplane ever finished?
Art here again. I forgot to mention that my 1/3 scale E-1 is loosely based on the 1/4 scale Bob Holman plans for the Eindecker E-III. The "undercarriage" details are very nicely illustrated. On your smaller scale project, I suspect that simple soft soldiering would be adequate to reproduce the landing gear to be scale, functional and strong enough. You have done very nice work so far. I bent my gear out of music wire in 1/4 and 3/16 inch sizes. There are not sprung, but are adequate to land the 37 plus pounds of airplane. Wing warping on mine is about and inch and a half each direction, maybe a little less. It is affective but rather slow. I turn with both rudder and aileron, uh I mean wing warping. The wing warping is more importantly used to level the plane after a bank. The rudder tends to not want to level the plane very well because of lack of dihedral. The controls on elevator and rudder are very responsive otherwise. I had seven flights on mine last fall, then dissassembled it and have been trying to finish the scale appointments and do some painting and marking and stuff......is a scale airplane ever finished?
Hi Art,
I am absolutely amazed that your 1/3 scale E1 weighs 37 lbs!!!
i have a 1/5th scale E3 and it weighs about 8 lbs.
i notice alot of the pics at your website have guys using engines some 2-5 times what the manufacturer's spec. it is amazing to me that one guy has an os 91 4 stroke in his eindecker of about 1/6 or 1/7 scale, and another guy has a 40 4 stroke in his 1/6 or so scale bipe.
can you tell that oversized engines is a pet peeve of mine?...
ok gotta go, my therapist is telling me to take my meds.
02-20-2004, 07:52 AM
#29
RE: 1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
Hello Tim,
FYI, Greg Emerick's Balsa USA EIII w/ the OS .91 (from the [link=http://www.bealmear.com/dawn_patrol]RC Dawn Patrol Web Site[/link]) flies in a fairly scale manner with that engine, it's not over powered at all. Thanks for not mentioning my EIII powered by an OS 1.20
. Yes, mine's a bit overpowered, but you don't have to use full throttle. And I don't usually (unless I'm trying to get Greg off my tail 
). I just happened to have a 1.20 to put on it. BTW, Art originally had my plane, and flew it with a G23! It was too heavy he'd tell you though. The lighter wing loading with the .91 or 1.20 makes it a much better flying airplane.
I agree that too much over powering of AC goes on these days, and to be true to the era, we could be flying many of them underpowered. But why not have a safer and better flying airplane? If you've been flying over powered AC, re-learning to fly a more "approprietly powered" plane "On The Wing" can be exciting and fun too!
What's more important though (I think) is to fly them in a scale manner (MOF- Mission Oriented Flying). There was gentleman last summer at a WW1 fly-in I attendeded that had a Taube. A beautiful old early WW1 plane, made to be flown slowly and gracefully. Well, he'd zooming along all day like it was a pylon racer.
Oh well, his perogitive. I guess that's my pet peeve. I do however recall a certain "Pup Pilot" aquaintence of mine last summer making a knife edge pass at the field. We joked about it being a "Pattern Pup". Let's see the E-1 do that Art!
What's hanging on the front of your EIII? Gorgeous looking Eindecker btw!
FYI, Greg Emerick's Balsa USA EIII w/ the OS .91 (from the [link=http://www.bealmear.com/dawn_patrol]RC Dawn Patrol Web Site[/link]) flies in a fairly scale manner with that engine, it's not over powered at all. Thanks for not mentioning my EIII powered by an OS 1.20
. Yes, mine's a bit overpowered, but you don't have to use full throttle. And I don't usually (unless I'm trying to get Greg off my tail ). I just happened to have a 1.20 to put on it. BTW, Art originally had my plane, and flew it with a G23! It was too heavy he'd tell you though. The lighter wing loading with the .91 or 1.20 makes it a much better flying airplane. I agree that too much over powering of AC goes on these days, and to be true to the era, we could be flying many of them underpowered. But why not have a safer and better flying airplane? If you've been flying over powered AC, re-learning to fly a more "approprietly powered" plane "On The Wing" can be exciting and fun too!
What's more important though (I think) is to fly them in a scale manner (MOF- Mission Oriented Flying). There was gentleman last summer at a WW1 fly-in I attendeded that had a Taube. A beautiful old early WW1 plane, made to be flown slowly and gracefully. Well, he'd zooming along all day like it was a pylon racer.
Oh well, his perogitive. I guess that's my pet peeve. I do however recall a certain "Pup Pilot" aquaintence of mine last summer making a knife edge pass at the field. We joked about it being a "Pattern Pup". Let's see the E-1 do that Art!What's hanging on the front of your EIII? Gorgeous looking Eindecker btw!
02-20-2004, 02:47 PM
#30
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RE: 1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
would you believe a 54 4 stroke?
i dont intend to fly mine like an aerobat or do anything other than scale flying with it.
the 54 fits the engine mounts the best, fits into the cowl perfectly, and is roughly the same height as the dummy radial.
i was actually a little bit worried that it wouldnt have enough power..but it does...plenty.
its funny, i generally fly warbirds and i have a kyosho mustang that has a minimum engine spec of a 40 2 stroke. My saito 40 flies it beautifully. Quite aerobatic too!...
i have a extra 300L with a super tigre 90 in it..(a 60 size spec)...and really..it is too much of a rocket...even for a plane designed to rip the sky up. The 60 wouldve been fine IMO. (i bought it second hand with engine).
i learnt a hard lesson as i had an immaculate corsair that wouldnt come out of a deliberate stall/spin. So i dont do stall/spins in warbirds anymore.
so it's not going to kill me to fly the eindekker around for nostalgia rather than adrenalin.
i dont intend to fly mine like an aerobat or do anything other than scale flying with it.
the 54 fits the engine mounts the best, fits into the cowl perfectly, and is roughly the same height as the dummy radial.
i was actually a little bit worried that it wouldnt have enough power..but it does...plenty.
its funny, i generally fly warbirds and i have a kyosho mustang that has a minimum engine spec of a 40 2 stroke. My saito 40 flies it beautifully. Quite aerobatic too!...
i have a extra 300L with a super tigre 90 in it..(a 60 size spec)...and really..it is too much of a rocket...even for a plane designed to rip the sky up. The 60 wouldve been fine IMO. (i bought it second hand with engine).
i learnt a hard lesson as i had an immaculate corsair that wouldnt come out of a deliberate stall/spin. So i dont do stall/spins in warbirds anymore.
so it's not going to kill me to fly the eindekker around for nostalgia rather than adrenalin.
06-03-2004, 02:52 AM
#31
RE: 1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
Could we bring this thread back to life? Vue, how's your project going?
I've come to the landing gear stage of my own EIII project and am using a varient of your strut solution. In my case I've added a second smaller music wire which conveniently forms a small loop at the bottom of the V with the thicker wire. I'll run a fully threaded 2-56 rod through the loops at the ends of the two V struts to be able to attach stuff and cover this with round alluminum tubing. I haven't filled with epoxy yet but will as they still seem too flexible. I am concerned however with how to attach the gear to the fuse. At present I have the thicker wire running into small hardwood blocks but I don't think this is going to cut it on a hard (or even medium) landing. I think the system has plenty of up and down strength (as in your table drop test) but am concerned about the whole thing folding backwards on landing. Clearly the cable bracing on the center V section of the landing gear has to be totally functional (i.e. real cable and real turnbuckles) for lateral stability.
In the BUSA kit, traditionally done main landing gear struts do all the work with other wires being added just for show. I'd like to retain this concept but apply it to a sprung system. I was thinking about using a thick 5/32 wire that would run through the body and be attached to bungee cords. Details yet to be worked out!
Oh and as I mentioned elsewhere I found 22mm working brass turnbuckles for $3.60 a pair from www.hobbyworldinc.com that at least to my eye look more like the originals did that the Proctor ones. I ordered a whole mess of them so I hope they work out!
I've come to the landing gear stage of my own EIII project and am using a varient of your strut solution. In my case I've added a second smaller music wire which conveniently forms a small loop at the bottom of the V with the thicker wire. I'll run a fully threaded 2-56 rod through the loops at the ends of the two V struts to be able to attach stuff and cover this with round alluminum tubing. I haven't filled with epoxy yet but will as they still seem too flexible. I am concerned however with how to attach the gear to the fuse. At present I have the thicker wire running into small hardwood blocks but I don't think this is going to cut it on a hard (or even medium) landing. I think the system has plenty of up and down strength (as in your table drop test) but am concerned about the whole thing folding backwards on landing. Clearly the cable bracing on the center V section of the landing gear has to be totally functional (i.e. real cable and real turnbuckles) for lateral stability.
In the BUSA kit, traditionally done main landing gear struts do all the work with other wires being added just for show. I'd like to retain this concept but apply it to a sprung system. I was thinking about using a thick 5/32 wire that would run through the body and be attached to bungee cords. Details yet to be worked out!
Oh and as I mentioned elsewhere I found 22mm working brass turnbuckles for $3.60 a pair from www.hobbyworldinc.com that at least to my eye look more like the originals did that the Proctor ones. I ordered a whole mess of them so I hope they work out!
06-03-2004, 08:13 AM
#32
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RE: 1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
Vue, I fully agree with Don, it would be nice if we could get a quick update of your fantastic eindecker project.
In fact this was the thread that inspired me to take on an eindecker construction myself. I'm not yet as far, but here are some specs:
1/5th scale, 195 cm span, approx. 3,5 kg, OS 40FS power
I've just about completed the fuse, starboard wing panel, full-flying tail feathers. It will have wing warping and sprung undercarriage.
My approach for scratch building was pretty much the same as yours: 3-views and pics taken from the web.
I do have one question though, how flexible are your wings and how well does warping work? Is it really vitally important to keep the wing very flexible?
Much like with your construction I've used thin ply rib caps and still want to install the diagonal cross bracing. The only major difference is that I've installed thin ply shear webs along the entire length of both spars instead of using an 'I' spar as you have.
I've quite come to regret this, as the wing has now become rather stiff which is certainly not terribly amenable to wing warping. Consequently I've become a bit disenchanted with the construction and might redo it (if necessary) albeit omitting most of the shear webs.
I've never before built or operated a wing-warper before so I'm completely new to a lot of the mechanics. I keep hoping that with the use of a suitable bellcrank system and taking into consideration the small distance each wing tip has to travel up and down my fears of the servo having to be really strong will be dispelled. Also the airfoil iis scale so it's quite thin as per orginal.
It would also be useful to know whether the covering adds a lot to the ridgidity of the structure.
Btw, should you have any, I'd really like to see some more pics of your eindecker.
In fact this was the thread that inspired me to take on an eindecker construction myself. I'm not yet as far, but here are some specs:
1/5th scale, 195 cm span, approx. 3,5 kg, OS 40FS power
I've just about completed the fuse, starboard wing panel, full-flying tail feathers. It will have wing warping and sprung undercarriage.
My approach for scratch building was pretty much the same as yours: 3-views and pics taken from the web.
I do have one question though, how flexible are your wings and how well does warping work? Is it really vitally important to keep the wing very flexible?
Much like with your construction I've used thin ply rib caps and still want to install the diagonal cross bracing. The only major difference is that I've installed thin ply shear webs along the entire length of both spars instead of using an 'I' spar as you have.
I've quite come to regret this, as the wing has now become rather stiff which is certainly not terribly amenable to wing warping. Consequently I've become a bit disenchanted with the construction and might redo it (if necessary) albeit omitting most of the shear webs.
I've never before built or operated a wing-warper before so I'm completely new to a lot of the mechanics. I keep hoping that with the use of a suitable bellcrank system and taking into consideration the small distance each wing tip has to travel up and down my fears of the servo having to be really strong will be dispelled. Also the airfoil iis scale so it's quite thin as per orginal.
It would also be useful to know whether the covering adds a lot to the ridgidity of the structure.
Btw, should you have any, I'd really like to see some more pics of your eindecker.
06-03-2004, 01:16 PM
#33
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RE: 1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
Trev, don`t worry too much about wing rigidity and warping. You will find that the thin sections have plenty of 'give' for the amount of flex that is required. Perhaps a plastic film covering might limit movement a little, but most fabrics will not.
John
John
06-04-2004, 02:38 AM
#34
RE: 1/6 Scale Fokker E.III (Turnbuckles, etc...)
A quick mock-up of the landing gear reveals a number of problems and one or two solutions. Crude as this is, it did help me understand the basic geometry involved and how the angles change as the gear moves up and down. I'm quite happy with the way the center inverted VV came out (that's a 4-40 full threaded rod inside the thick walled aluminum tubing). It also became crystal clear that the real strength of the gear lies in this inverted V and that the strength of the V depends in great part of the bracing wires. No mock turnbuckles here! I was also able to figure out a way to hinge the legs leading from the center (I used cable mounting collars cut and ground down with the Dremel). At the moment all these tubes are empty. Eventually they will all be filled with music wire and epoxy (thanks for this tip Brian).
I still haven't quite worked out how the main gear legs with be attached to the part in the fuse bound with bungee. Or how I'm going to connect the pivoting sections with the main gear legs. It's all part of the journey.
I still haven't quite worked out how the main gear legs with be attached to the part in the fuse bound with bungee. Or how I'm going to connect the pivoting sections with the main gear legs. It's all part of the journey.
