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Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.

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Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.

Old 03-14-2011, 02:40 AM
  #701  
Sethhunter
 
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Default RE: Pfalz DIII resources Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.

Thanks Gabriel, very interesting. I understand the cloth was applied to the shells while still separate? Do we know if additional cloth was applied to the joint, at the parting line, after the shells were nailed to the frame? Thanks again for the effort to photograph and upload the pictures!
Old 03-15-2011, 07:52 AM
  #702  
ARUP
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Default RE: Pfalz DIII resources Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.

Gabriel- the link you have posted is infected with 'virus'.
Old 03-15-2011, 11:43 AM
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Default RE: Pfalz DIII resources Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.

Hello Arup,

thanks,.....the link is deleted.

gabriel
Old 06-26-2011, 05:17 PM
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Default RE: Pfalz DIII resources Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.

Ok one of my favorite scout/fighters of WW1. A good company to do business with is Lazer Works out of Texas. The owner (Eddie) is a down to earth nice guy. My plans I'm using are a set  from the Late Dr. Allen Spievack. You still can purchase them from the Carlsen Publishing company (Flying Models). The Spievack's Plafz used an .60 engine. The owner of Lazer Works had them blown up to 1/4th scale for me. Like wise he increase everything to 1/4th scale in his kit that I purchased (outstanding); Phone number is 1-(940)766-2667, also Eddie's been in the business a long time he knows! He also cut me the 1/3th scale Albatros kit from MAN a Dave Johnson design. Also there are several guys that have builds on RCsalebuilder.com (complete now). So have fun with your Plafz D.III. Mike
Old 12-09-2013, 09:08 PM
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It's been 7 years since this you posted the pics of these wheels and they're still causing me to drool.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-s...ml#post4929552

Last edited by Erich_Prinz; 12-09-2013 at 09:10 PM.
Old 12-10-2017, 07:21 PM
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I don't know if any of the principals look at this thread any more but I have a few questions regarding Seth Hunter,s D III'a. How well did the spinner hold up? I understand the point of hanging an inverted engine out the bottom of the airplane but I'm wondering how much engine one could install in an upright position without completely overwhelming the appearance of the dummy engine. I may have missed it in rereading the thread but did Seth's D IIIa have the inverted airfoil on the stabilizer? There is some talk of a 1/3 scale kit of a D III (a) but 1/4 scale D IIIa's are not exactly cluttering up the sky. I appreciate the effort that went into the planes shown in this thread.
Old 12-11-2017, 06:09 AM
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Default Inverted engine and airfoil?

I recall there was some discussion surrounding the engine orientation - more around the concern about the danger of the cylinder being inverted. Hopefully Seth is still around and will pop on and offer up some clarity for you!

I can't recall ANY discussion about the stab airfoil being inverted. In the original engineering drawings, the airfoil is normal. Intriguing thought though - one would have to ask why they would invert the airfoil on the stab.

Originally Posted by mgnostic View Post
I don't know if any of the principals look at this thread any more but I have a few questions regarding Seth Hunter,s D III'a. How well did the spinner hold up? I understand the point of hanging an inverted engine out the bottom of the airplane but I'm wondering how much engine one could install in an upright position without completely overwhelming the appearance of the dummy engine. I may have missed it in rereading the thread but did Seth's D IIIa have the inverted airfoil on the stabilizer? There is some talk of a 1/3 scale kit of a D III (a) but 1/4 scale D IIIa's are not exactly cluttering up the sky. I appreciate the effort that went into the planes shown in this thread.
Old 12-11-2017, 07:43 AM
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The Pfalz DIIIa stab was flat on top and airfoil shaped on the bottom. The engines really do not care what position they're in, I run several of my engines inverted. On our 1/3 scale Pfalz kit the 85cc is straight up and the top 1/3 of the dummy engine is still used, the side cowling plates conceal the engine. We will be doing a 1/4 scale soon.
Old 12-11-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by vogel605 View Post
The Pfalz DIIIa stab was flat on top and airfoil shaped on the bottom. The engines really do not care what position they're in, I run several of my engines inverted. On our 1/3 scale Pfalz kit the 85cc is straight up and the top 1/3 of the dummy engine is still used, the side cowling plates conceal the engine. We will be doing a 1/4 scale soon.
Yes, a true scale DIII stab is a kind of flat topped airfoil. You see it on some Roland aircraft as well. The Wylam drawings, which are the best that a lot of folks have to go on, seem to show the inverted airfoil stab on everything. I don't have my Pfalz reference materials right at hand but in addition to the greater area I think I recall that there was some difference in the D IIIa stab airfoil as well. I was wondering if Seth Hunter had this on his model and did he think it had an impact on flight characteristics. He mentions wishing he had more down thrust. A lot of WWI kits have a tendency to pitch up under power. This is often addressed by changing the pitch of the stab. An inverted airfoil on the stab would tend to make this quality worse and so I was wondering if he had made any adjustments in this regard. As for the motor I was mostly wondering how much engine one could stuff into the cowling without spoiling the aesthetics. I know one could go electric. There is a precedent for 1/4 scale WWI electrics and some of them are quite nice but I'm not that interested in investing in the batteries and support equipment.
Old 12-11-2017, 05:18 PM
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Hi Matt,
I'd need to check the plans or the airplane to remember what I did with the stab. I think it was symmetrical but will let you know. At 1/4 scale if is difficult if not impossible to hide a 2 stroke cylinder 40cc or bigger inside a 1/4 scale straight 6 scale engine. Glen T. and I corresponded about options as he was interested in kitting a Pfalz DIII, but the engine compromises were too great (at the time). Some recommended an axial-reciprocating engine (bevel gear drive) - i don't remember the manufacturer. That would fit. Electric is a good option too. I didn't fly the airplane very much, mostly because of the set-up time at the field, so I don't have life data on the spinner. But it seems pretty tough. The molding technique eliminates excess resin and bubbles. I was careful to orient the composites symmetrically, and with lots of overlapping layers. Of course I balanced it carefully. However I don't make any promises - be careful, confident and comfortable with this kind of work or have one machined for you. As for inverted engines, I've never had any problems with my inverted DA or Fuji engines.

Seth
Old 12-11-2017, 07:49 PM
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Hi Seth, Thanks for the info. I have a lathe so turning up a core for molding a spinner should be doable. . I know it's sacrilegious but I'm thinking in terms of compromises that will allow for relatively quick set up at the field. Did the wickelrumph construction contribute much to the all up weight? I don't have any prejudice against inverted engines. I run an inverted Homelite in my N-17. I'm just hoping to preserve that pointy nose as much as I can. The RCV is a pretty engine and would do well in a pointy nose but it looks like 20 cc's is their biggest engine. It may be overly ambitious but I was hoping to keep the weight down around 20 pounds and get away with something like a G-38. If I have to hang something out the bottom of the cowl or the engine bulges to either side of the scale cowling then so be it. If I get something built it will increase by 100% the number of D-IIIa's that I have seen with my own eyes. I haven't ruled out the 1/4 scale kit that Vogel605 is promoting and as to the short kit from Lazer Works that Fokker Triplane describes, I know Eddie, the owner, personally and have built several of his kits. He makes a good product and if my current efforts don't pan out I'll probably be giving him a call. A part of my goal in this is working up my own set of plans. I pretty much have the fuselage with formers and tail surfaces laid out and I'm starting on the wings. I want to stretch my limited drafting skills and I've even learned a smidgin of CAD. Back to the topic of the spinner, were you using an electric starter or just hand propping it?
Old 12-12-2017, 12:47 PM
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Hi Matt - A few thoughts on the Wickelrumpf method:

The fuse on my DIIIa was heavier than I would have liked but that was more do to method than design and I would do somethings differently. I used 3 layers of 1/64 ply, over a largely open frame, glued with epoxy. The result was stronger than necessary.It was heavy because it was hard to get the strips to lay tight against the layer below, so there was more epoxy in the structure than I would have liked. Also, the disadvantage of 1/64 material is it results in a hull too thin to fair, and the material is too flexible so it distorts easily when laying down.I would recommend solid, not open, half molds.For example, carved from dense foam.Then strips of thin (e.g., 1/32) balsa rather than plywood.(You may want to check my build thread for the Pfalz DXV, where I strip-planked the top and bottom of the fuselage with balsa laid down in “barber-shop-pole” spirals.)You could do the same thing over foam, and push tacks through the balsa into the foam to hold the strips down while you fit and edge-glue the strips together.CA would make this go quick, and is light.On the second layer, pull the tacks as you proceed, so they don’t get covered.Tacks are not necessary if you use thin CA, as it will immediately bond to the first balsa layer.If you want to use slow (e.g., aliphatic) glue, you can tack the second layer too.Repeat same for third layer.Then remove the foam (not sure how easy that would be).The build-up fuselage should have better shape, some thickness to sand, and be quite light.Once the shells are removed, you apply additional strips, stringers and bulkheads inside to stiffen.You might want to add ˝ oz glass to the outside to improve puncture resistance – or put glass between the layers.I would experiment on a compound curved section to make sure the method, materials and weight work the way you like.I have not tried this.But I did build a (full size) boat using similar method.Stapled the strips to a wooden mold, pulled the staples as additional layers went on.In that structure, 3 layers of 1/8” Western Red Cedar was incredibly strong.The most tedious part is planning each strip, although as I think about it, you probably only need a tight fit for the inner and outer layers. Leaving space between the strips on the middle layer might be a clever weight saving strategy – overall or perhaps just back in the tail where lightness counts.Experiment!

Yep - I always hand flip my engines. Heavy gloves for the big gassers. Chicken stick for little engines/sharp props!

Last edited by Sethhunter; 12-12-2017 at 12:53 PM.
Old 12-12-2017, 09:24 PM
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Seth, It's not really my area of expertise but I wonder about vacuum bagging the wickelrumph over a solid form. From looking at the photos in the reference books, that would be a modern equivalent to the factory method. That said, I'm going to go for a more mundane planked balsa over formers and stringers type of fuselage. I will be borrowing more from the Topflite warbird manual than the original construction. I've also been studying the build threads for the Dave Johnson SSW D-III. For a sport scale model like I am going for I don't feel too much pressure to simulate the wickelrumph. There are photos where the lighting is just right or the aircraft is weathered such that the wood strips show through but there are plenty of photos to point to that simply show a smooth surface. I have had good luck finishing sheeted fuselages with the light weight fiberglass and that is what I am planning on. If one wanted one could easily veneer the fuselage from there. Regarding your boat description, I wonder how a Roland D-VIb would look with cedar planking? In all frankness, most of the people who will ever see this model first hand wouldn't know wickelrumph if you spanked them with it. It would be a minimum of a three day round trip to the closest dawn patrol so I'm not too worried about a WWI aviation expert berating my construction technique. My current task is checking the dimensions on the fuselage formers. I have a former that ties the engine box to the landing gear mounts and the lower wing mounts to three of the fuselage formers and it had a dimension that was out of whack. Back to the old dictum of measure twice cut once, or in my case measure three or four times, draw the part a half dozen times and get one usable part out of a sheet of plywood.
Thanks for the information. It is always good to hear from someone who has walked the path before.
Old 12-17-2017, 08:16 AM
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Hi Matt,
I hear you. I've found by far most spectators focus on the simple "unexpected" details. Rear view mirrors on my Pfalz DIII, Compass mounted on the lower wing on my Halbi DIII, the cookie-sheet radiator baffle on my Pfalz DXV, cowl vents on the Pfalz DRI, Parabellum rear gun on the Junkers J10, etc. And that's cool. Consistent crowd pleases are radiators, exhaust manifolds, engines and guns! Funny, often the hardest details go unnoticed, probably because they blend right in. One of the most challenging bits I ever made was a set of 1/3 scale pilot googles. Took about a dozen tries to get right. Just a little bit of weathering is a big asset to appearance. Are you posting your work on RCU?

What CAD program are you using?
Old 12-17-2017, 11:01 AM
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Hi Seth, Currently I'm using A9cad. It doesn't have anywhere near the functionality of Autocad but the learning curve is a lot shallower and it's free. I have a copy of Autocad 14 but the last computer it ran on had Windows Millennium. Some parts of the plan I've been working on are hand drawn but I have to say that the CAD is really nice for producing dimensionally accurate and symmetrical formers. I would estimate that I am about two thirds of the way to having enough drawings to start construction. I will probably start ordering wood around the first of the year. The Pfalz is an uncommon enough build that it should be interesting so I will likely post in the scale forum. I'm just glad I won't have to explain why it doesn't have 10,000 rivets. My thought is to have guns, radiator and perhaps some cockpit detail. All of those round access hatches give a nice texture and should be easy to duplicate. The engine and exhaust pipe are prominent enough to require some effort. Although I am incorporating the hard points for flying wires, I am designing a thicker than scale, flat bottomed wing that should be strong enough to fly without the wire bracing. One of my design goals is to have a plane that doesn't take much longer to toss in the truck and set up at the field than my BUSA N17. A scale airfoil wouldn't be much more difficult but I think it probably would require functional wires.
Related to wings, what did you do for the sub-ribs? Documentation seems to indicate that they weren't much more than a floating capstrip tacked to the leading edge and the spars. It would mean a lot more rib cutting but I was considering just making a shallow rib that would show from the top but not the bottom.
I have a ton of respect for those folks who thrash out better than museum scale airplanes but this is going to be my first own-design large scale biplane and I will be happy if it provokes a "Wait a minute, that's not an Albatross" conversation.
Old 12-31-2017, 09:02 PM
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Old 01-22-2021, 05:40 PM
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Default 1/3scale Pfalz diii.a

I just found this old thread after spending the last 6 months framing up two 1/3 scale models.









Cheers to all you Pfalz builders

Regard,
‘Forest


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