Steve_JR

My Feedback: (6)

I remember looking at a website where this company produced amazing WWI ARF aircraft... it sounds stupid calling them ARFs but they were literally ready to go and the detail and work was amazing. Basically they looked like models that were meant to be in a museum but could fly They would go for a couple thousand dollars a pop. Anyone know the company or am I going crazy? -Steve

abufletcher

Both K&W Models and 3 Seabees Models produce very details (and pricey) WWI ARF's.

http://www.kwmairpl.com.ph/

http://www.3seabees.com/

While they do look very good to the casual observer, many (most) do take some liberties with scale outlines and details which renders them no more than good sports scale models. Still, I won't mind if any of you guys got together a collection and bought me one!

Steve_JR

My Feedback: (6)

ah yes it is the 3seabees I was looking for Thank you! So you say there stuff is not really that accurate? -Steve

Hydro Junkie

I just got a surprise, 3Seabees is only 15 minutes from my house!!!! I may have to go see what they have and get back to you on it.

abufletcher

Actually, after taking a closer look I think that the 3 Sea Bees Models ARE EXACTLY THE SAME as the K&W models. Is this correct? Is 3 SeaBees just reselling the K&W models?

As an example of the degree of scale accuracy see the attached photo of their Albatros C-III. The size of the rudder has been increased (the K&W catalogue states this) and I'm sure one could find other discrepancies.

But as I've said above (and elsewhere) they are pretty darn good and don't really deserve to be labeled ARFs. Maybe we can call the "pre-built scale models" follwoing the thinking of the folks who gave us "pre-owned" vs. "used."

splais

My Feedback: (25)

I believe that 3SeeBees is the US distributor for K&W. It appears that way on the K&W site.

I have alsways held that there are no ARF's; just kits that you build yourself or pay somebody else to build, mass produced or otherwise.

Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

When fully dressed and rigged they are pretty darned good looking and would satisfy all but the most critical observer..........

Mike Denest

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, you are correct. They can be purchased as completed, ready for radio and engine installation or uncovered. Purchasing one uncovered would allow one to complete the model with as much scale details as desired. They are also easy to convert to electric power.

Dai Phan

My Feedback: (2)

Hello,

I have three of the K&W Models distributed by 3 Sea Bees. They are SE5a, Sopwith Triplane and Curtis Jenny all in 1/5 scale (that's the company scale choice). They are TRULY ARFs because they are FULLY assembled at the factory, then dis-assembled for packing. Everything is bolt and clip on, no gluing needed but you can re-inforce the glue joints if you can. You can open the box and have it look like the picture in 30 minutes or less. Contruction is typical stick and panels like the original. Outstanding design and flawless workmanship. In my opinion, their planes TRULY define the word ARF. The reason why they are not in the main stream is due to:

1. WWI and pre WWII crafts that appeared to limited audience.
2. Twice the price of the regular ARF ( ranges from 700 - 2000)

True that they are not 100% scale (unless you buy the display only version) but they are DAMN close to it. Only scale fanatics would be able to tell the errors in 5 seconds or less...

Are they worth the buy? Yes, and once you have one, you will marvel at them for months.... I am still in aw of them until now. Buy one and you will not be dissapointed. DP

V2PLUS10

I have the Thomas-Morse Scout by Three Seabees and it has been a great airplane. People still marvel at it when I say that it is an ARF. The covering is fabric and the insignias are painted on. Rudder and elevator are pull-pull and the aileron controls are scale. Came with a wooden dummy engine that looks just great, adds a little weight to the nose also! Took a little mod to the firewall to install a 70 4-stroke, but thats to be expected.

Bought it during one of my frustration periods while building the Strutter. Turned out to be a great WWI trainer model. Ground handling is better than a Cub but flys like a WWI biplane...

Randy

telstar

Hi Randy,

I am getting ready to fly my Seabees Scout for the first time and I am looking for any hints or tips you or any others might be able to offer before I make my maiden flight.

Did you set your CG up as per the instructions.

Also, this is my 1st model to utilize flying/ landing wires so I could use some advice as to the "proper" way to set them up, ie tension.

If anyone else has any input I sure would appeciate it!

Thanks,

Sean

V2PLUS10

Hi Sean,

It's been a little while since I last flew the Scout. You may know all these things already, depending on your experience with high drag biplanes. Do not be in a hurry to get it off the ground! I fly off of grass and it works fine but the model may hop once or twice before actually becoming airborne. Very scale-like! Have not tried it off asphalt...tail skid airplanes typically are difficult to keep straight on asphalt or concrete. The Scout tracks very straight on grass with little rudder input. Hold some up elevator till you get a little speed then relax the elevator and let the tail come up on it's own, or lift it gently if you wish, it may even lift off in a slightly nose high attitude. Just hold it more or less level and let the speed build before climbing out. I've had several really close calls with this model mostly because I let it get slow or tried to do something abrupt or both. Which engine did you use? I used an OS 70 Surpass but we are at 2800' msl here. Right now I have a Dyna Thrust 14-6 plastic prop that works well with the 70 and 15% nitro fuel, but it is not overpowered, really it is just adequate at this altitude. If I had it to do over again I'd use a bigger engine. The airplane has a lot of drag, so any climbing is slow, it will loose speed in a turn, and you may even need top rudder in a turn to keep it from sliding to the inside. I think I added weight to the nose. I see that I have a brass heavy hub and a brass backing nut which I think works out to an ounce and a half, so I must have felt that it needed more weight. If you have experience with these types of models the Scout will give you no trouble. I do touch and goes with it and it will do a great egg shaped loop if you dive for speed first. Landings are not difficult, just carry some power and more or less fly it on to the ground, don't let it get too slow--wheel landings are best for me. If you need a go-around once again do not get in a hurry, add the power and wait, count to three if necessary but wait for the speed to build.

I just set up all the wires so they are snug..not too tight. They just sort of "thump" when you pluck them. If you over tighten the flying or landing wires or even if you are not careful you can introduce a twist into the wings, so use an incidence meter. What I'll sometimes do is take a long straight stick and hold it against the bottom of the wing near the root, you can use a rubber band to fasten it there, then add another similar stick near the tip, then view the wing from a couple of feet to one side and you can see if the sticks are parallel or if they diverge...if anything you would like a little wash-out (less incidence) at the tips.

The Scout was my first WWI type and when the time felt right I pointed it into the wind and off she went. I kept waiting for it to veer off to one side or the other(as my friend's Nieuport invariably did) but it was very docile. It is great fun to fly and don't let me scare you, just take it easy and you should have no trouble....

I hope I haven't rambled on too much. Let me know how it goes. Seems to me I nearly lost all the hinge pins in the rudder and elevator early on, so make sure they are firmly in place with a good bend at each end. One more thing....I often stand directly behind any WWI model for the first few takeoffs, that way you can see if the tail begins to swing and you can correct early and with less input. Once again the Scout is pretty docile.

Randy

telstar

Randy,

I have a Magnum .80 up front with a 14x4 Zinger prop. I ran it this morning and it is turning at around 9800-10k. It couldn't seem to get the engine to idle as low as my Saito 80 does, but the added drag the plane creates should counter that. I am in Florida, flying at sea level.

I mostly play with go-fast stuff; jets etc, so yes, I need to be careful getting this plane too slow or doing abrupt maneuvers. You comments regarding the need to take things slowly rings loud and clear and your input has been most helpful! I feel much better now about my maiden.

Now to loosen those flying wires a bit. They TWANG!!!!

Thanks again for everything and will let you know how I make out... Probably next weekend.

Best Regards,

Sean

V2PLUS10

Sean,

This airplane will probably seem to just crawl along for you....the 80 at sea level should be just fine. Remember there is nearly no vertical performance! This airplane flys on it's wings and the engine just provides a little forward movement so the wings will work!

If you land on grass that is a bit long an approach that is too fast may end up in a nose over, as the wheels settle and that cross bar starts to hit the grass the drag goes way up...but nose overs are not bad or uncommon...just look at one of the Datafiles on WWI airplanes! Set up a rate of descent and wait till it touches down. You'll do fine. Ailerons are not too effective either if the plane gets slow, so be ready to use the rudder if you are not already. So there you have it, not too fast, not too slow and you are on your way!

Randy

Dai Phan

My Feedback: (2)

Hello,

I have 3 planes from K&W and boy, the covering is very wrinkled!!! I use the heat gun but after 5 minutes, they are back! Is there a way around this short of recovering and painting??? Dai Phan

V2PLUS10

Hi Dai Phan,

My Scout is five or six years old and may be covered with something besides solartex. It is holding up pretty well with out too many wrinkles except under the paint on the rudder. No amount of heat seems to take them out. there are a few wrinkles in odd places but I just try not to worry about them. The full scale airplanes looked pretty rough while in service too!

Randy

telstar

For now mine is wrinkle free but it has not spent much time in the sun.

BTW, I have been told that these planes came with serial numbers. I can't seem to find mine. You guys have any luck?

Sean

ps. Randy, I have been drooling over at your Hanriot thread. Really amazing work you have done with that one!

V2PLUS10

Thanks Sean, you know several years ago when I was building my Sopwith Strutter I got so frustrated that I ordered the Thomas -Morse Scout!! figured I'd never finish the Strutter, but I did and I still fly it in contests. The Scout turned out to be a great way to learn about WWI airplanes with all the rigging, pull-pull controls and the "special needs" that they have. I don't know about the serial numbers. Haven't noticed one on mine. I still have that great big box it came in...maybe its printed on it somewhere...

Randy

oh yeah, those Sabel sports cars look pretty cool too!!

telstar

Thanks!

Maybe I could finish restoring that Sabel prototype if I wasn't so busy playing with R/C planes! For now, it is making an excellent work bench for the Tommy Scout! :-)

I received an email from Bob at 3 Seabees and he was the the one who mentioned the Serial Numbers... I thought that was neat.

I was most impressed with how quickly he responded to my emails. Nice to know if anyone else is considering one of these models.

Sean

telstar

Randy,

This morning we had perfect weather conditions in Florida. I had run out of excuses not to fly the Scout so I went for it. It tracked exactly as you said it would and needed almost no rudder input. As it turns out the plane was tail heavy (The model was balanced as per instructions!). It lifted off with no elevator input and started to climb.... A little too quickly! It began to snap on me at only 20 feet but I was able to save it, climb to a safe altitiude, add a few degress of down trim and try to get the feel of how a WWI airplane flies . After only 3 minutes I decided to land (worried about fuel/ nose weight burning away!). Even with the tail heavy condition the landing was very easy. One small bounce and a short roll-out, stopping right in front of me! That made me feel a little better after the ugly takeoff :-)

Last night I added a few more ounces of lead to the nose as a precaution. Obviously it wasn't quite enough, but if I had not done that or had I not heeded your warnings about abrupt contol inputs I am certain the model would have been lost. I can't wait to add more weight to the nose and get it back into the air!

I think I like this WWI stuff!

Sean

V2PLUS10

Sean,

Excellent!! I bet that three minute flight seemed like about 15! Glad you were able to catch it and bring it back safely....I think all WWI types have a tendency to be tail heavy..that nose just isn't long enough to easily balance a plane like that. I read somewhere that even the full scale Tommy was tail heavy...they had to continuously hold down elevator even in cruise.

Maybe not as smooth as you would have liked, but successful no matter how you look at it. Let us know how it is after you add some more weight.. Congratulations!!

Randy

V2PLUS10

Have you taken Tommy the Scout out again for a turn or two around the patch??

Randy

telstar

Hey Randy,

Planning on it this weekend..

To be honest, the 1st flight spooked me!! And it has been windy down here.. Sunday I will give it a try if the weather holds up.

I changed the prop to a 14x6, up from 14x4. If you think 13x8 might work better, I have some of those ready! I also added 8oz weight to the nose. Now it balances slightly nose down so hopefully it will be a little more stable..

Thanks for checking in. I'll let you know how things go.

Regards,

Sean

V2PLUS10

I use a Dynathrust 14-6 and 15% nitro fuel. Gives old Tommy just a bit more boost..That short nose requires a lot of weight to make a difference..8 oz...1/2 pound ought to make a difference. I have my batteries in a box under the cowl, above the engine. WWI types require constant attention..not like a pattern ship that will more or less stay in what ever attitude you put it, you will have to fly old Tommy all the time, but you will get used to it. I have a great narrative written by a civilian test pilot around WWI....he also found the Scout to be quite a handful, but he learnd to like them anyway...wish I knew how to post it...

Randy

telstar

Sounds good.

With that 14x4, and the model a little tail heavy, it struggled to climb to altitude. I am looking forward to getting her up in the air ASAP! I will try to get some video and post it the next time I fly the Scout. I would LOVE to read that narrative you have from the Tommy Scout pilot! Do you remember his name?

Thanks again for all your help!

Sean