Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
03-30-2006, 02:20 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
McLeodAviation - Thanks for the additional info on the MH BD. Sounds interesting, never had a kit without plans. Hope you get around to building it soon!
Shawn - others have suggested going electric and I will seriously consider it once I get to that stage. The only thing about electrics is the cost of batteries, yes, I know, people argue about cost of glow fuel but I fly a lot and do go through many batteries. The CV joint angle is a good one I hadn't considered, especially with the 1/5 scale gas cars becoming more popular now.
Yes, I've been meaning to go to the Oakland museum, I've heard that the curators are really nice and may even let me get a close up view. Just haven't taken the time yet. With my luck it might be gone by the time I do though. I took a day off and went to the Hiller Museum to see theirs, while it wasn't a wasted trip, the BD-5 was on display at the San Mateo Fairgrounds!
Shawn - others have suggested going electric and I will seriously consider it once I get to that stage. The only thing about electrics is the cost of batteries, yes, I know, people argue about cost of glow fuel but I fly a lot and do go through many batteries. The CV joint angle is a good one I hadn't considered, especially with the 1/5 scale gas cars becoming more popular now.
Yes, I've been meaning to go to the Oakland museum, I've heard that the curators are really nice and may even let me get a close up view. Just haven't taken the time yet. With my luck it might be gone by the time I do though. I took a day off and went to the Hiller Museum to see theirs, while it wasn't a wasted trip, the BD-5 was on display at the San Mateo Fairgrounds!
03-30-2006, 09:06 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
sfsjkid,
In post #8 you gave a great lead on a unique drive train in that P-39. Just for the record, it's in the May 1982 issue of MA, not March. Still and all, thanks a lot for that - I never would have found that on my own. It might help me with another project that I'm gathering information on.
Bob
In post #8 you gave a great lead on a unique drive train in that P-39. Just for the record, it's in the May 1982 issue of MA, not March. Still and all, thanks a lot for that - I never would have found that on my own. It might help me with another project that I'm gathering information on.
Bob
03-30-2006, 09:14 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Bob,
Oh well, at least I got the first two letters and the year. Thanks for the correction! Good luck on your project!
Frank
Oh well, at least I got the first two letters and the year. Thanks for the correction! Good luck on your project!
Frank
03-31-2006, 08:40 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
sfsjkid,
So, you too have been drawn away to an easier project than the Palmer BD-5D. You are not alone. I do not recall ever seeing or hearing of one that was ever started much less completed. I have a set of his BD-5D plans I ordered right after they became available. They have been looked at many times and I even started to trace out some formers once. It is still in my plans to build it someday. I got interested in this thread in the hopes you might be the inspiration to finally build it. My interest in the BD-5 goes back to its inception when I first read about Jim Bede’s plan to offer it in a kit version. I have followed it ever since and have compiled a lot of data on the Bede line of designs. I even put up a website you mentioned in your first post [link=http://www.Scalebd.com]www.Scalebd.com[/link]. The only flying Bede model I have right now is the Dave Blum designed BD-5 short kitted by Aerolock Models. It is a real nice flying plane. I do not think any other aircraft draws attention like a BD-5 both in full and model scale. The History of the BD-5 series of aircraft is worthy of a book. It is a remarkable design that still captures a lot of interest. An interesting fact is you can still buy a full size BD-5 kit. Not one but two manufacturers offer it and it is said that Jim Bede is working on an updated composite version.
Joe
So, you too have been drawn away to an easier project than the Palmer BD-5D. You are not alone. I do not recall ever seeing or hearing of one that was ever started much less completed. I have a set of his BD-5D plans I ordered right after they became available. They have been looked at many times and I even started to trace out some formers once. It is still in my plans to build it someday. I got interested in this thread in the hopes you might be the inspiration to finally build it. My interest in the BD-5 goes back to its inception when I first read about Jim Bede’s plan to offer it in a kit version. I have followed it ever since and have compiled a lot of data on the Bede line of designs. I even put up a website you mentioned in your first post [link=http://www.Scalebd.com]www.Scalebd.com[/link]. The only flying Bede model I have right now is the Dave Blum designed BD-5 short kitted by Aerolock Models. It is a real nice flying plane. I do not think any other aircraft draws attention like a BD-5 both in full and model scale. The History of the BD-5 series of aircraft is worthy of a book. It is a remarkable design that still captures a lot of interest. An interesting fact is you can still buy a full size BD-5 kit. Not one but two manufacturers offer it and it is said that Jim Bede is working on an updated composite version.
Joe
03-31-2006, 11:06 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Hi Joe,
My what a small world! I was going to write the owner of www.Scalebd.com to at least let him know that there was a new electric version available. I didn't realize he be reading this thread! Yes, my plan set is well worn due to the hours I've spent looking at them. I do believe I got my money's worth from that aspect alone! Your words might be the inspiration to get back to this thing, it will get built. I've attached the formers I've done so far. I've been using my scanner since I found that using its copy function will give me perfect 1:1 copies. I knew of one company that sold full sized parts but didn't realize there were two! I agree that a BD-5 is worth writing, Joe are you volunteering?
Frank
My what a small world! I was going to write the owner of www.Scalebd.com to at least let him know that there was a new electric version available. I didn't realize he be reading this thread! Yes, my plan set is well worn due to the hours I've spent looking at them. I do believe I got my money's worth from that aspect alone! Your words might be the inspiration to get back to this thing, it will get built. I've attached the formers I've done so far. I've been using my scanner since I found that using its copy function will give me perfect 1:1 copies. I knew of one company that sold full sized parts but didn't realize there were two! I agree that a BD-5 is worth writing, Joe are you volunteering?
Frank
04-01-2006, 12:15 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Bob,
I believe the plans are still available from Palmer. I have not looked lately, but I think there is 4 sheets to the set. I do not believe there is a electronic CAD file available. I think I read or heard that there is a Laser Cutter that Palmer licenses to cut his kits. It is pretty expensive as I recall, but would be a great time saver.
Joe
I believe the plans are still available from Palmer. I have not looked lately, but I think there is 4 sheets to the set. I do not believe there is a electronic CAD file available. I think I read or heard that there is a Laser Cutter that Palmer licenses to cut his kits. It is pretty expensive as I recall, but would be a great time saver.
Joe
04-01-2006, 01:54 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Yes, the plans are still available from Palmer for $64. As Joe mentioned they consist of 4 hand drawn sheets, so I don't think there is a CAD plan. I bought mine about a year and a half ago. One thing about the plans though, since they are hand drawn, some of the pieces are not completely symetrical, ie if you fold say a cut out of a former and fold it in half, the edges don't match. As someone mentioned earlier, Palmer is not known for actually building his stuff, like say Platt or Ziroli, I wouldn't be surprized if no has actually built a plane from these plans.
Where am I going with this? Well, while I've never had anything lazer cut, I do know several people who have, one even competes in Top Gun from time to time. The consensus seems to be that it is more trouble than it is worth. Even with the most accurate laser cutter there is the question of which "part" of the line to use, ie, inside, outside or middle. Then unlike a big manufacturer, the plan has probably not gone through beta testing where the parts are test fit to see how they go together as a whole. Finally, kit cutters tend to make inevitable mistakes interpeting the plan. Though not really a problem with a responsible cutter, since they'll have the electronic version and will recut for you, it is time consuming. Chances are better with something like a Gentle Lady glider, or some trainer, but the BD-5 is fairly complex and chances are that the cutter will become your best friend.
Where am I going with this? Well, while I've never had anything lazer cut, I do know several people who have, one even competes in Top Gun from time to time. The consensus seems to be that it is more trouble than it is worth. Even with the most accurate laser cutter there is the question of which "part" of the line to use, ie, inside, outside or middle. Then unlike a big manufacturer, the plan has probably not gone through beta testing where the parts are test fit to see how they go together as a whole. Finally, kit cutters tend to make inevitable mistakes interpeting the plan. Though not really a problem with a responsible cutter, since they'll have the electronic version and will recut for you, it is time consuming. Chances are better with something like a Gentle Lady glider, or some trainer, but the BD-5 is fairly complex and chances are that the cutter will become your best friend.
04-01-2006, 11:13 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Thanks for the information... too bad about no CAD, but if the plans aren't that accurate - CAD would be a waste. An accurate CAD drawing would have made things convenient.
As for CAD itself, I've drawn things a few times and they came out just fine. IN fact, Gunderson is making up some tailfeathers for a vintage Bridi kit that I'm building (I didn't like the slab balsa in the kit).
The keft left from laser cutting depends on the material and its thickness. Soft thin material has a kerf about the thickness of paper. Thicker ply has a wider kerf.
I'll take the laser cutting every time, as long as the design is laid out properly.
Bob
As for CAD itself, I've drawn things a few times and they came out just fine. IN fact, Gunderson is making up some tailfeathers for a vintage Bridi kit that I'm building (I didn't like the slab balsa in the kit).
The keft left from laser cutting depends on the material and its thickness. Soft thin material has a kerf about the thickness of paper. Thicker ply has a wider kerf.
I'll take the laser cutting every time, as long as the design is laid out properly.
Bob
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04-01-2006, 11:29 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Bob,
I do agree about CAD plans, also, the lettering on the original was done with rub on letters that have rubbed off in places. Glad to hear you've had good experiences with laser cutters. I've been thinking, and the main difference between yours and those I've heard seems to be in the plans and possibly in the complexity. Some have scaled up, others use stuff from old or little known plans, one from Palmer. The one from Palmer is a B-24, he had it laser cut and ended up cutting everything himself. Here's a pic of the vertical fin. Please see http://www.b24project.com/ if you would like more details.
I do agree about CAD plans, also, the lettering on the original was done with rub on letters that have rubbed off in places. Glad to hear you've had good experiences with laser cutters. I've been thinking, and the main difference between yours and those I've heard seems to be in the plans and possibly in the complexity. Some have scaled up, others use stuff from old or little known plans, one from Palmer. The one from Palmer is a B-24, he had it laser cut and ended up cutting everything himself. Here's a pic of the vertical fin. Please see http://www.b24project.com/ if you would like more details.
04-01-2006, 03:21 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Yup, have had good luck... but I can see where you're coming from too. As a caveat to anyone who has not used CAD plans, the implication of CAD doesn't necessarily mean that they're good. If the designer did a bad job, you'll get bad parts. You'll have very precise parts that are the wrong size instead of the right size.
I've downloaded some CADplans off the web (they're free, and you get what you pay for) and there was obviously no care given in their setup. That could extend to other plans as well, such as the ones that one pays good money for. You can't rush these things and expect good product.
I think that, for me, I don't have the patience to lay out each piece on a hunk of balsa and start making wood chips. I just don't have the time. I'd rather make up the design (which I know will be accurate) and then have someone else cut them.
Bob
I've downloaded some CADplans off the web (they're free, and you get what you pay for) and there was obviously no care given in their setup. That could extend to other plans as well, such as the ones that one pays good money for. You can't rush these things and expect good product.
I think that, for me, I don't have the patience to lay out each piece on a hunk of balsa and start making wood chips. I just don't have the time. I'd rather make up the design (which I know will be accurate) and then have someone else cut them.
Bob
04-06-2006, 01:14 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Here are some more electric kits hot off the presses...
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Foam sheet electric from ???
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1 cent eBay special, see http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_36...tm.htm#3647077
http://6mmflyrc.com/display/ShowGall...alleryId=21852
http://www.cermark.com/Merchant2/mer...gory_Code=AAA\
Wing Span 43.75"
Length 30"
Weight 20~26 Oz
Motor 28mm 1400KV Brushless Motor
Radio 3 Ch or more
Color Orange/White
http://www.aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=255
Wing Span 43.5"
Wing Area 230 Sq. In.
Length 31"
Weight 25 TO 25 Ounces
Motor 275 to 300 Watt
Radio 4 Channels minimum
http://www.a-prayad.com/index.php?la...=20300&Ntype=2
Foam sheet electric from ???
http://cgi.ebay.com/RADIO-CONTROL-AI...QQcmdZViewItem
1 cent eBay special, see http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_36...tm.htm#3647077
04-19-2006, 08:12 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
ORIGINAL: sfsjkid
The one from Palmer is a B-24, he had it laser cut and ended up cutting everything himself.
The one from Palmer is a B-24, he had it laser cut and ended up cutting everything himself.
Actually I had All American Kit cutters hand cut the wood and it was not worth it. Laser cutting would have been better but not if they used the plans as drawn. Garbage in, garbage out as they say in the computer world. Laser cut parts from well drawn plans are wonderful but it's not as bad as you might think to cut your own parts. Very satisfying.
P.S. I would not use Palmer plans again except for scale outlines and details. Too much head scratching!
04-19-2006, 09:49 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Mark? Its me Frank your fearless(?) club secretary! I love that B-24 project so thought I would give it a plug, hope you don't mind. I started this thread in the hopes that it would motive me to finish the BD-5 faster, but too many other projects get in the way! It might take 4 times as long as yours since it only has one engine!!!
See ya!
See ya!
04-20-2006, 01:02 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Hi Frank, yep it's me.
That looks like a cool project. You'll have to bring the plans to the field on Sunday so I can see em. About 30 years ago I built and flew a cox .051 Tee Dee powered Bede 5 that flew a few steps ahead of me for about 5 exciting flights. I don't remember who made the kit but I remember it flew like a missile.
Mark
That looks like a cool project. You'll have to bring the plans to the field on Sunday so I can see em. About 30 years ago I built and flew a cox .051 Tee Dee powered Bede 5 that flew a few steps ahead of me for about 5 exciting flights. I don't remember who made the kit but I remember it flew like a missile.
Mark
04-20-2006, 01:31 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Mark, that was probably the BD-5 1/2 mh Manufactureing Kit or if it was from plans it would have been the one by Fred Reese published in Model Air Plane news some time ago. The plans are still available:http://www.rcstore.com/rs/general/de...9753&catego=PL .
I had one of the Fred Reese designs. It uses an Ace molded foam wing.
Frank, how is the Palmer version coming? I figured I would check in every once in a while to inspire you. With all the semi-scale BD 5 coming out it would be nice to see a scale one for a change.
Joe
I had one of the Fred Reese designs. It uses an Ace molded foam wing.
Frank, how is the Palmer version coming? I figured I would check in every once in a while to inspire you. With all the semi-scale BD 5 coming out it would be nice to see a scale one for a change.
Joe
04-20-2006, 05:31 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Well Joe, between you and Mark, well, the juices might get flowing real well! Mark and I are members of the same club, I hoping he wants to see the plans to build one himself. Then we'll get a build race going! Sorry though, no progess other than thinking about getting the ribs done. Actually, you might consider that progress
. Right now I'm tempted to do at least the rudder, finish it up completely and placing it somewhere prominent as a visual reminder. Thanks for asking and keep proding!-)
. Right now I'm tempted to do at least the rudder, finish it up completely and placing it somewhere prominent as a visual reminder. Thanks for asking and keep proding!-)
04-21-2006, 10:52 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Just found this thread and it's excellent!
BD5-J is one of my favorite planes and I am almost ready to test fly a Jet-Mart BD5-J kit with turbine power. Should be sweet!
The guy with the P-39 did something i have always wanted to do! build a P-39 with an internally mounted engine. man, that's cool.
What did he use for a type of radiator to cool the water?
Myles
BD5-J is one of my favorite planes and I am almost ready to test fly a Jet-Mart BD5-J kit with turbine power. Should be sweet!
The guy with the P-39 did something i have always wanted to do! build a P-39 with an internally mounted engine. man, that's cool.
What did he use for a type of radiator to cool the water?
Myles
04-22-2006, 11:30 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Hi Myles,
Any pictures of your turbine powered Jet-Mart BD-5J? Hope you have some video to share of the maiden flight. That design has been around for some time. I believe Jet-Mart is the second manufacturer of it. I understand it flys good with a Ducted Fan. It should be a "Pocket Rocket" with the turbine.
My only flying Bede design at the moment is Dave Blum's small electric BD-5 pusher I built from an Aerolock short- kit (out of production). It is a great flyer. Dave told me recently that he is thinking about kitting himself.
Joe
Any pictures of your turbine powered Jet-Mart BD-5J? Hope you have some video to share of the maiden flight. That design has been around for some time. I believe Jet-Mart is the second manufacturer of it. I understand it flys good with a Ducted Fan. It should be a "Pocket Rocket" with the turbine.
My only flying Bede design at the moment is Dave Blum's small electric BD-5 pusher I built from an Aerolock short- kit (out of production). It is a great flyer. Dave told me recently that he is thinking about kitting himself.
Joe
04-22-2006, 09:48 PM
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Yes, video of both the Jetmart and David Blum BD-5's would be great!
Myles, the P-39 was water cooled if I remember correctly. The AMA archives has the full article online and I think the plans are still available.
Frank
Myles, the P-39 was water cooled if I remember correctly. The AMA archives has the full article online and I think the plans are still available.
Frank
04-25-2006, 09:23 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
04-26-2006, 08:33 AM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Thanks
Unfortunately I can't have access to it as I'm not an AMA member. DOH! (From Canada 'eh)
Oh well, would have been cool. I just wanted to see the info on the water cooling system of the P-39. I definitely have to try that!
Could be used in a BD5 as well.....?
Myles
Unfortunately I can't have access to it as I'm not an AMA member. DOH!
(From Canada 'eh)Oh well, would have been cool. I just wanted to see the info on the water cooling system of the P-39. I definitely have to try that!
Could be used in a BD5 as well.....?
Myles
04-26-2006, 01:48 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
Double DOH Myles As I mentioned, I lost my AMA password and was too lazy to get it reinstated, but I didn't realize you were in Canada!! If you can PM your email address, I'll try to get the article to you once the AMA does their magic.
I suppose the radiator system could be used in the BD-5 but I would like to save as much weight as possible, its is going to end up heavy!
Frank
As I mentioned, I lost my AMA password and was too lazy to get it reinstated, but I didn't realize you were in Canada!! If you can PM your email address, I'll try to get the article to you once the AMA does their magic.I suppose the radiator system could be used in the BD-5 but I would like to save as much weight as possible, its is going to end up heavy!
Frank
05-17-2006, 10:52 PM
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RE: Palmer 1/4 Scale BD-5 and Misc. Info
ORIGINAL: Jetset
Just found this thread and it's excellent!
BD5-J is one of my favorite planes and I am almost ready to test fly a Jet-Mart BD5-J kit with turbine power. Should be sweet!
The guy with the P-39 did something i have always wanted to do! build a P-39 with an internally mounted engine. man, that's cool.
What did he use for a type of radiator to cool the water?
Myles
Just found this thread and it's excellent!
BD5-J is one of my favorite planes and I am almost ready to test fly a Jet-Mart BD5-J kit with turbine power. Should be sweet!
The guy with the P-39 did something i have always wanted to do! build a P-39 with an internally mounted engine. man, that's cool.
What did he use for a type of radiator to cool the water?
Myles
Have you test flown your turbine powered Jet-Mart BD5-J yet?
Joe
