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Royal Kits

Old 01-10-2008, 06:54 AM
  #101  
Riddle4U
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Default RE: Royal Kits

Bacplus; I was hoping to hear from Dionysus Bachus on his canopy for my Zero (mine is the first pic here). I see Fiberglass Specialties has my part, and I'll get it there ...I think preferentially over "U.S. Wing". Thanks for your recommendation.
Old 01-15-2008, 11:52 AM
  #102  
stick08
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Default RE: Royal Kits

hi,

for those that like the Zero's , this is the real sound of the original sakae engine 21 :

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=S93vb99MXKU ,

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=EeeyrAHaFDs ,

if someone is interested with the MP3 file only, I can send by e mail

Stick08
Old 01-15-2008, 07:42 PM
  #103  
PatienceWhatThe
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Well now I don't feel so bad about how long it has taken to getting around to building my Royal P-38. I bought the kit in late 89 or 90 as part of my "what to do with my time" after calling it quits with my intended. I opened the box, read the plans and the booklet enclosed. after about 3 days I decided I didn't understand the plans and didn't want to spend the money for all the accessories I was shopping for at the time. I closed the box neatly and kept it. When I got divorced (same woman... go figure) I reopened the box. Actually built a little of it until I made a mistake with mirror imaging the booms (read I didn't). Packed it up and put it away until I had PATIENCE (hence the name) room, money and time. That was almost 10 years ago.
Now I have the time, the internet (and forums) for resourcing and funds to do it right the first time. I also finally have enough room to spread the thing out so it isn't so over whelming. What I'm looking for from you experienced guys is this:
Engine preference(s) - I know I want to mount them inverted with a pump, but who's is the best? Also want to have the counter rotating props.
Props - matched to engine... I like the 3 blade set-up here.
I've seen people talk about a tank in the fuselage to hold more gas (longer flights), but how is it done?
Retracts - love the idea but what is the best bang for the buck?
Retracts 2 - Don't the doors have to close too? the plans don't show any suggestions for this to happen.
Servos - don't have clue, I need recommendations.
Linkages - the booklet has a schematic for mechanical setup but how does that all tie in to servos?
Radio(s) - what will give me the best versatility for this model and future set-ups?
When would you put all of the above in during the build?
Any help here, or direction to links/forums would be greatly appreciated.
I'll be here for a while... at least until I finsh crashing this plane. lol


Mike
Old 01-15-2008, 09:03 PM
  #104  
scale dail
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Default RE: Royal Kits

I have been flying my royal P-38 for over 15 years. the engines are inverted and not pumped. K&B Screamin .48's. then changed to old OS .45FSR's. 12 oz. Sullivan slant tanks. I get 10-12min. flights with those tanks. counter rotating would be nice. I remember you could switch the K&B .40 crankcase around for a reverse engine, but I have never done that.

The plans show the nose gear too far forward for scale, so that it can retract forward of the leading edge of the wing. I moved mine back about an inch with a new bullkhead.

I have the same old Rhom-Air P-38 retracts and they still work great but are getting a little sloppy. I'll put the doors on my next one.

Look forward to seeing progress on yours Mike!
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:44 PM
  #105  
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Default RE: Royal Kits

the cleanest way to 'mirror image' the plans is to take the to the copy store [i use Syracuse Blueprint] and get them to make one right copy and on reversed copy.

then you don't have to remember to flip things, and you don't have to wax or oil [:'(] the plans to see thru them. [yea, the words are ****wkcab[:@], but you can read the right half.

FA[8D]
Old 01-16-2008, 11:39 PM
  #106  
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Default RE: Royal Kits

FokkerAce,

You are right! I wish I would've thought about the reverse copy when I went to FedEx at lunch (today) to copy the plans so I can cut up the copy and pin it to carboard. The paper they use is much thinner than the original plans too, so I might get away with it anyway. $9 a sheet, and I didn't get the full sheet to boot! The scanner will only do 36", the plans are 37.5", so a little edging is cut off.

On counter-rotating props...
Couldn't I add a gear to the engine shaft, a matching gear and shaft to the prop and offset the whole unit?

Was set to fix some of the damaged tail when I observed I'd actually used a piece of scrap instead of the correct part for the leading edge. I cut all the stringers out to start fresh. Tedious work, but will improve the strength... the glue joints are REALLY dry and brittle.
Old 01-17-2008, 02:01 AM
  #107  
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Off topic a bit here, but this is my opinion (if anyone cares), on someone's suggestion to put a rudder servo in the TAIL of a 1/7th TF P-51(a different thread). The below was my response, and I think it holds for "Royal-sized" scale airplanes.

"xxxxx, with all due respect. Light pushrod systems are prefferable in my opinion (and just my opinion). The small weight of a servo is multiplied by the arm (and long), of the tail moment. A few ounces in the tail is HUGE. I know the pushrods are not weightless, and pull-pull are even lighter; to build an overall lighter plane I would suggest against it (tail servo). If your engine is so heavy that you require tail-weight (almost never the case), than OK. This 3D-inspired movement to have an enormous amount of servos, with supposedly reduced slop e.t.c. has run it's course. Hold all of your combined servos in one hand, and you will immiediately see that it is time to use our quality high-speed/high-torque servos to account for themselves. That is to say run PUSHRODS! 100Oz/in. servos can run centrally (importantly at the center of gravity). Learning to create low-slop linkages is just part of building, and I don't see the difference between a maintenance hatch at a bell-crank versus a servo hatch. You could have a bag of 25 bell-cranks with pivot bolt, before you would equal ONE decent servo! We are getting lazy, and the radio manufacturers just love selling expensive servos. Nuff said. Best regards, and hope your plane comes out terrific! ..again just my opinion."

I hate to reiterate, but with extra planning and choosing the right servos with linkages (yes, extra work and planning), one can build this scale of plane pretty light. People come out with these ideas for light-weight skinning materials, Monokote a scale job instead of glassing(anathema), skip retracts(ostensibly to save weight, but adds huge drag)....and then add double the servos for control. Nuts!

I don't mean to derail my thread here, carry on gentlemen(great conversation happening here)!

Scail Dail; curious: why did you change-out the K&B 48's? That looks like a great engine to me, and I LOVE their marine Hi-Po engines. Could you get them to send an engine that turned opposite standard, still? Counter rotating is crucial. MECOA is producing K&B's now, and it sounds like they have improved manufacturing equipment. Maybe we should support American manufacturers that make a decent product? Glad you're still hanging around here "Dail". I guess I should mention that there is another thread on the Royal P-38 on RCU, with some nice projects (for all interested). I don't know how to create links here sadly[&:]

If anyone finds out before me on the ability to get a reverse-turning K&B engine; please post. Try calling O.S. for that!
Old 01-17-2008, 03:29 AM
  #108  
Riddle4U
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Patience what the- I hope people will give you some of your answers. I'll attempt on some. You asked about links..There is one by Dionysus Bachus on his Royal Corsair build thread here where he has some good pictures showing how to make fiberglass gear doors. It is a long thread, but a lot of golden nuggets on building these classic built up scale planes (and truly inspirational). You can't rely on the resources included in Royal kits to solve your questions (obviously), these things were definitely meant for builders. The thinking and creativity required to acheive your final desired results is certainly in YOUR hands..Ha ha. THAT's the fun of it. I would replace any pushrods in an old royal kit with modern ones (someone please come up with suggestions here). I think Century retracts or Robart's are obvious choices on your retract question (lots of pre-planning required). You'll need to figure out where all your push-rod holes, pneumatic air-line holes, e.t.c. need to be drilled before you start framing(and don't forget internal receiver-antanae routing if you so choose, and are not on 2.4 mhz yet). The hardest part on these planes is that you have to think and pre-plan for yourself! I'm sure you notice that these Royals don't build flat on the board with "jig-tabs" for wing ribs, and half-shell-on-the-board fuselage construction. You'll need to draw centerlines on all ribs and fuselage bulkheads and than secure them to your work surface somehow (maintaining centerline relationships). I like the idea of tack-gluing 1/4 inch balsa sticks between ribs and work surface, as well as between fuselage bulkheads and work surface, measuring carefully for overall straightness before planking with sheet balsa. I don't know if that makes sense (I assume you haven't framed yours yet). Counter to your nickname here, you will need to contemplate, and have PATIENCE to come out with a decent result with a Royal-type project. Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask any of us here for advice! You also asked about radio and servos: I have a somewhat older 7 channel PCM Futaba that I love (FPT-7UAP and can convert to 2.4mhz), but all the major brands are good. I don't have experience with the new 2.4 spread spectrum radios, but it seems to me that has to be the way to go(yes, get ready to drop a grand). Servos have become a major topic in themselves. Look at Tower Hobbies charts for Futaba to get an idea of all their choices!!! In my opinion the choice of aileron and elevator servos is the most important. Get expensive high-torque/high speed coreless servos here (40 to 100 oz./in., and .20 sec/60 degrees or better on transit time). The one thing that is never mentioned in the specs, is current drain! Digital servos are great, but do have a high instantaneous current draw as I here; more importantly, digital servos are much more expensive. I wish I could tell you on that, but only have those specs after I buy the servo (Current draw is documented with some of their products). I like the Futaba 9402 for aileron and elevator. Specs as follow: .10 sec/60degrees transit time (very fast), and 111 oz./in. torque (extremely strong for the size and speed). They warn you about current drain (at START as they put it), but perhaps not as bad as digital ones(I don't know). This is a coreless motor with metal gears for strength and low backlash(slop). Other servo choices should be based on size, weight, torque-required, and cost. These are just some of MY suggestions, others here may have helpfull opinions I hope. Lastly..Go for it!

Just reading this response may require PATIENCE ha ha! Hope it was helpfull. Can any one else fill in?
Old 01-17-2008, 07:47 PM
  #109  
scale dail
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Default RE: Royal Kits

I'm always watching this thread. less than IMAA size planes are just my thing. and the royal kits were the best! well I guess there were a few other Co.'s that made great scale kits this size, like Jemco Master Scale kits.

The K&B .48's were great and had more power than the OS .45FSR's. but Royal P-38's do not live long if the engines are not PERFECT! and I started having reliability problems. it was at that time I had in flight engine failure. 3 times. the first I cut the power and made an off field landing with damage. the next two times I was high or fast and made it back to the runway. it may have been a bad batch of fuel? changed that too! I have been at this game awhile and if I can't get it to work then it needs to be changed. and I love American made things, that is why I used the K&B's but OS can not be beat, even 25 year old engines!
My Royal P-38 is retro all the way, 80's engines, 80's retracts. the radio is state of the art though, that has to be the best!
Old 01-17-2008, 09:04 PM
  #110  
FokkerAce
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Default RE: Royal Kits

Are plans + patterns available for any of the old Royal/Marutaka's

FA[8D]
Old 01-17-2008, 09:21 PM
  #111  
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Default RE: Royal Kits

EBAY man
Old 01-17-2008, 09:58 PM
  #112  
PatienceWhatThe
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Default RE: Royal Kits

Riddle,

You've killed all my build time tonight!! lol I have stepped back once again to ponder whether or not I can make the first glueing!!
I appreciate ALL of the feedback. Most of it I will have to research just to get up to speed on the vernacular.
I've already decided to not build it to scale. From the plans it seems modifications to the ribs would also have to be done and I'm not that sure about finishing the basic build anyway. I have enough doubts as it is...
Having the thread(s) to read is a big help on figuring out what it'll cost to finish. Kind of puts a timeline to it as well.
I have stumbles across Dionysus Bachus' build before and refer to it all the time for hints and clues. There is a nice one on a Yellow P-38 as well but the guy building it stopped adding updates a couple of months ago. It had some great pics and showed good insights for putting retracts in. Also made it seem doable rather than the Royal plans and build instructions which leave a lot to your imagination (not to mention budget!!).
Old 01-17-2008, 11:14 PM
  #113  
scale dail
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Default RE: Royal Kits

The Royal P-38 came out in 1968! it was one of their first offerings in the US. (I have the Model Airplane News article). back then you practically had to make your own retracts.
Old 01-18-2008, 02:00 AM
  #114  
Riddle4U
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Good point Dail! "What the"- if you don't mind, what experience do you have in building? A talented individual might well be able to build one of these as a first scale project..but I really wouldn't recommend it. Most people here are willing to help regardless.
Old 01-18-2008, 07:28 AM
  #115  
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Default RE: Royal Kits

And digressing further , as I recall, die crushing was the accepted method of producing mass quanities at an acceptable cost otherwise it took some saving of coins to afford a hand cut kit like "Royal". Machine cut kits such as Bridi were Cadillac quality and more expensive of course as opposed to Goldberg, etc.....Scale took a big leap in those days when Dave Platt came from England and fathered the "Stand-Off Scale" events.......Now we have Laser cutting. Its been a huge jump in quality and accessability. I feel like a Dinosaur......LOL

-Bill
Old 01-19-2008, 04:38 PM
  #116  
PatienceWhatThe
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Riddle... I've built a hand full of balsa rubber band powered... P-38, P-51, P-47, SBD-5 &P-39. I got tired of tossing them in the air only to look in horror as they nosedived into the ground. SO I had figured at the time of purchasing the Royal P-38 at least I could have someone trim the tabs before I crashed. Plus I was looking for a LITTLE more challenge. HA!!
So the build I am confident about, it's the electronics and engines I need the guidance. I had put it away because I realized the time commiment would be huge. Now I've got a few hours a night that I can work on something like this.

Yeah, this shouldn't be the first plane I learn to fly, but that's why they make buddy systems.
Old 01-19-2008, 05:22 PM
  #117  
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Default RE: Royal Kits



Royal. Just the name knocks 30 to 40 years off my age.

Had the P-51 Widow. Now in the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum to help raise money. was designed as a U C plane by Royal. 2 different outer wing panel sizes.

Rich
Old 01-20-2008, 04:14 AM
  #118  
Riddle4U
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Cyclops; you have the floor. Tell us more about it. Sounds like there is more you could share.
Old 01-20-2008, 08:23 AM
  #119  
scale only 4 me
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Default RE: Royal Kits


ORIGINAL: Riddle4U

Good point Dail! "What the"- if you don't mind, what experience do you have in building? A talented individual might well be able to build one of these as a first scale project..but I really wouldn't recommend it. Most people here are willing to help regardless.

True,

ORIGANAL: PatienceWhatThe

So the build I am confident about, it's the electronics and engines I need the guidance. I had put it away because I realized the time commiment would be huge. Now I've got a few hours a night that I can work on something like this.

Yeah, this shouldn't be the first plane I learn to fly, but that's why they make buddy systems.
PatienceWhatThe,
I assume you're going to join a club on the east side. Someone in the club wil help you, but I'm sure they'll tell you this.
That is not a good first airplane to learn on. it's not even a good 2nd or 3rd. It's for an experianced pilot

If you can't find anyone to help you, please let me know. I'd hate to see you crash that thing.
I'd be happy to meet you and make sure it's air worthy at least
Old 01-21-2008, 12:55 AM
  #120  
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[...disclaimer...] It is neither my ad nor do I know who's ad it is.

There is a Ki-43 Oscar kit ad in the RCU marketplace. The asking price is much less than I paid for my Oscar kit found on ebay last year. If it sits there much longer at that price, it might become mine, even though I already have one (one is never enough) and I am way, way over my hobby budget. I often notice people lamenting over not being able to find Royal kits of the Japanese fighters and this one has sat unclaimed for over a week...

- Jan
Old 01-21-2008, 07:54 AM
  #121  
Riddle4U
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Hi Klaatu, I say BUY it! Ha ha[sm=lol.gif] An older Royal P-38 just sold on Ebay for $250, pretty good deal these days. "Patience what the"- I must concur with the sentiment above on building /flying that P-38. I know getting between you and your kit is akin to getting between a Bengal Tiger and red meat..., I have this suggestion (you know what's coming). Get a good trainer like Sig's LT-40(one of my favorites). All your questions will be answered (well most) on building, flying, equiping, radio installation, engine operation, in an RC project. I had a roommate some years ago (we were attending Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University), and he wanted to buy and fly a R/C helicopter. I asked why he would want to start in RC with a very difficult to fly helicopter, when we were both very experienced fixed wing pilots by that point. I implored him to get a fixed wing trainer. He listened and we went to the hobby shop together. He had money, so I suggested a radio, trainer kit (it was the LT-40), engine, covering material, tools, field box and support equipment e.t.c. That very night he set to work on my building board and had the entire wing framed, sheeted, and initial sanding for covering completed... by midnight! I over saw a little bit, but asked him to try just using the great photo manual. He had the whole plane framed in 3 days. I showed him how to cover half the wing, and he was able to cover the rest of the plane on his own (he did a great job by the way). Using the manual alone he installed the engine and radio himself (with just a few questions for me). The next weekend we went to the field, ran a few tanks of fuel on the ground, and I took it off for him. I tell you he was literally grinning from ear to ear! "WOW it flies great doesn't it, he said". I trimmed it and let him fly with our buddy box setup, he was pretty good but soon got dissoriented and had it spinning toward the ground (yes, I saved it). He is a knowledgeable full scale pilot mind you! Ultimately he was able to become a pretty good RC pilot. He thanked me over and over for guiding him on a path that led to much learning and succesful flying. He was so happy just flying "that thing that I built myself". You will find that same feeling with some patience. The P-38 even with buddy box will aim itself toward the ground with a purposeful vengeance, and you may never learn to fly well. Get a trainer in the air, than consider building your P-38. You may become a decent flier during the considerable time it would take to finish the "38" properly. You could build the P-38 slowly on the side, while you might build and fly an appropriate intermediate semi-aerobatic type as well. You will be thanking me forever..Ha ha[sm=lol.gif] I beg everyone else's pardon here, I just want to see this gentlemen obtain his goal in the great hobby/sport. What the, you really will have fun with the trainer..I promise!
Old 01-22-2008, 06:14 PM
  #122  
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The Ki-43 kit seems to be significantly rarer than the P-38 kit. I already have one of each (and a total of 16 Marutaka/Royal kits ) so I am not really in the market for more. My post was intended to be a public service to those folks who looking for a rare Japanese Warbird.

- Jan
Old 01-22-2008, 07:07 PM
  #123  
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Man I wish I had the money, theres a P-61 Black Widow kit up for auction. [sm=cry_smile.gif]

Scott

Old 01-24-2008, 02:18 AM
  #124  
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Had Enough & Riddle,

Appreciate the comments about getting started. I will be of course pigheaded and keep on plugging away. This is my favorite plane of all time, did papers on it in high school and in college and still have most of the reference materials. In addition to the rubber power I think I've built every scale plastic model there was in the late 70's early 80's. My fav was a 1/35th scale that had over 250 pieces. It got smashed by falling furniture into twice that many. I don't know where the pics are though... will have to think about where those are.

HE - I checked the local group's website and lo and behold they hold their meetings at the hobby store closest to my work. Turned out I missed the monthly meeting by a week so will catch up with them next month.

My build will be in slow motion as I weed through all the details before I mess around with the inner workings. I don't like not being able to visualize how the mechanical/electrical details will look before getting to it. I have seriously thought about building it static without the inner workings just to brush up on the skills, but still not ready to do that quite yet.
Old 01-24-2008, 02:59 AM
  #125  
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Oh....very well, "what the" ha ha![sm=lol.gif] I was just saying you'd get a lot out of building the *******(trainer). Really, you could get some "ya ya's" out while you attack your kit. Its not either-or.

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