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What is Scale?

Old 03-03-2002, 02:03 AM
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THE TAILBACKER
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Default What is Scale?

Oh I know what we all think it is. What I am getting at is we regularly read postins of some scale plane we buy,Arf or Kit is not quite Scale. My Giant Scale Planes (pains) claims to be scale and to me it looks it. Now my WM.40 size is obviously more of a sport scale but obviously looks like a P-51 to me.
Now to take a turn here. We have a Air Guard Unit here. I drive by it once in a while. They have a full size scale F-100 and A-7 mounted up on a post out in front. The other day i noticed around the other side of the street a full size P-51 up on a post. I looked at that thing for 5 minutes. In my opinion my sportscale P-51 looks darn near a carbon copy nevermind my other one.
To me if a plane looks like a replica from a distance than it is at least a sport scale. I guess to be true scale, you need the rivets, steps, signs, cockpit and the whole shooting match. Just because someone does not have all that but looks good should not be counted down as not scale.
Old 03-03-2002, 03:00 AM
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Vince
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Default What is Scale?

Most kit manufactures usually change the outline of a particular plane for a number of reasons. One reason might be because the full scale version had a problem with linear stability, so the kit maker enlarges the tail. Just about all kits have airfoils different than the original they are modeled after. In a scale judging contest a lot of variables are considered. Does the plane follow the original profile faithfully in every respect? Are all the access d hatches and inspection ports in place and represented along with panel lines and rivets? Finally is the paint scheme representive of a real plane. You have to provide documentation on the plane you are trying to duplicate in scale. That documentation is used by the judges to critique your model. This is really a simplified explanation, as it is vastly more complicated.

Vince
Old 03-03-2002, 01:56 PM
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Default What is Scale?

Like the scales on a fish, there are many ideas on the question.
IMO any model that looks like a real airplane, general planform, and has a color scheme of some actual aircraft in that planform constitutes a scale model.
Many years ago, scale was scale, and such competitive models were judged up very close. There was a time when the gloss of the finish determined the *scale* thing. Then the technical aspects became the main items and now a competitive scale model seems to be a real airplane shrunk down by a headhunter!!!
The advent of the *Stand-off*, *Sport* and other names allowed for competition models to be developed that flew better, were easier to kit and build, yet look very realistic. Now the ARFs get the *Scale* designation and yet they simply resemble their namesake with nothing to any true scale.
Therefore, I say that if it looks mustangy, then it is a Mustang, and if the flier is happy, so am I.
I like scale warbirds, and desire a bit more than the ARFs so I build mine. They will never win any contest, but they satisfy me so what ever you want is scale to you.
Do we know anymore than when we started?

Horrace Cain
Old 03-03-2002, 02:50 PM
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THE TAILBACKER
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Default What is Scale?

Maybe at they/we could use a more down to earth method. If there is a crowd around. Get some kid and say"hey kid, what kind of plane is this?" If he says a P-51, then I would guess it is a good reproduction eh?
Old 03-04-2002, 07:59 PM
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kevin mcgrath
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Default What is Scale?

How about using the following categorys: Museum scale,competition scale,stand off scale,stand way off scale,stand way off and squint scale,scale like,
Now all we have to do is decide which individual model belongs in which category........
This is one of those subjects/discussions/arguments.....that will go on forever,without resolution......sorta like the definiton of "scratch" building...
Old 03-11-2002, 03:41 AM
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Default Scale

Haha Kevin scratch building is when you open a kit and see all the crappy wood and die crunched parts and you "SCRATCH" your head throw all the wood into your scrap bin and cut your own parts. I say scratch built is anything you build that was not in a comercially produced kit. I consider kit cutter kits as scratch built as they are not what I consider factory set up kit.

Any way back to scale. I am a true scale fanatic and build mine with as much detail as possible, but I feel there are several different levels of scale as mentioned above by Hossfly. I see that most kits are more of a sport scale or stand way off and squint scale.

but as long as we view there is several levels of scale I think the debate will rest.
Old 03-11-2002, 03:54 AM
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Default Scale

Haha Kevin scratch building is when you open a kit and see all the crappy wood and die crunched parts and you "SCRATCH" your head throw all the wood into your scrap bin and cut your own parts. I say scratch built is anything you build that was not in a comercially produced kit. I consider kit cutter kits as scratch built as they are not what I consider factory set up kit.

Any way back to scale. I am a true scale fanatic and build mine with as much detail as possible, but I feel there are several different levels of scale as mentioned above by Hossfly. I see that most kits are more of a sport scale or stand way off and squint scale.

but as long as we view there is several levels of scale I think the debate will rest.
Old 03-11-2002, 04:49 PM
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paladin
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Default What is Scale?

Tailbacker, If it looks like, walks like, and fly's like a duck,... its a duck!
Old 03-11-2002, 06:35 PM
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kevin mcgrath
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Default What is Scale?

The World model aircraft scale championships,both C/L and R/C are here in Ontario Canada,this July,for 10 days.It looks like I will be attending the whole works,as a volunteer in the admin end.However each volunteer only works 6 hours a day,and the rest of the time is free to spectate,mix,and drool,including access to the flightline.I,ll come back to this thread and give y,all my definition of scale after this experience...
Old 03-11-2002, 10:55 PM
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SDCrashmaster
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Default What is Scale?

"Scale", in my mind, is when it appears as though an alien "shrink ray" was used on a full scale subject with the exception of necessary RC alterations such as needle valve or cylinder head protrusions, glow access, the occasional control horn when hidden linkages are impossible, etc.
If your pilot has no torso, forget it.
If there's a stock OS .46 muffler running outside of the cowl, forget it.
If your instrument panel is a sticker, forget it.
If full scale is/was metal and yours is MonoKote, forget it.
The word "scale" used alone without descriptors such as "fun", "sport", etc. should not include anything but a subject where every conceivable detail of the full-sized, documented aircraft is replicated visually. If all details are functional, even better. Most planes that I see referred to as "scale" are a big dissapointment. If you're going to do it...then do it. Anyone who say's that "if it is recognizeable as a J3 cub than it is a scale J3 cub" either lacks the skill, knowledge, desire and patience. Or, has a social life...all of which prevent true scale modeling. Please stop throwing the word "scale" around so freely , as it does a great injustice to those craftsman who truly build "scale". If you just like a plane to look nice and that's what makes you proud, then so be it. But that ain't scale.
Old 03-12-2002, 03:31 AM
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Default What is Scale?

Scale is much more than panel lines and rivets and spending the time to build a model that looks like a shrunken full size. Its getting all your documentaion together prior to starting, its getting together with people that share a similar interest. Its trash talking with some one who reolizes that its all for fun! It's taking the time to teach those who want to know how, how!

But we scale modelers are very poorly organized! last time I counted there were four organizations that pertain to scale modelling, two of which produce their own rules. Non of which provide a conprehencive fly in to masters flyer coverage of scale and we all are paying the price. Instead of putting the time into discusing what is scale I'ld rather spend the time discussing how to put togeather a comprehensive program for scale that will modivate people from their first scale project to their last.

In the absence of that beutty is in the eye of the beholder!
Old 03-12-2002, 03:47 AM
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Default Scale

I know a lot of people out there interested in scale but dont know how to do a lot of things. I myself have been working at it for 25+ years but am no where near the Scale Masters level as one day I would like to be. I have had to learn from trial and error and the 3 whole scale websites that are out there that have How-to Articles.

This is one thing I would like to see is a forum or a thread Where those of us who have some ideas to share can so that others out there can learn from us and that we can learn from each other also. Now I am past the simple Panel lines and rivet stages but a comprehensive how to might help others. Right now I am working on a simple 8 to 10 bomb drop system for My B-25 so that they will drop in sequence altering back and forth from the 2 racks. I have to do this simply and soso because I am not an engineer or electronics genious and so sometime would like to see a post or two from someone who has perfected a system like this or folding wings or like the avenger folding rotating wings. I know people like platt and a couple others have put out books but some of these things are hard for me to picture and it would be nice to have someone to ask questions of to clarify. Until we as scale enthusiests come together to help one another using our new found friend the internet I do not see a rise in the scale community membership as people like Ziroli, Platt, Meister (now retired) or others don't have time to sit down and help people wanting to learn how to be a scale master.

Anyone feel the same way?
Old 03-17-2002, 03:49 AM
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Keithtr
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Default scale asperations

I think that if you are a rc flyer it is a natural progression to start with a trainer that looks a bit like a plane and getting bored with that plane and wanting something that looks a bit more realistic. After you have modified the kit plane so many times to correct for all the S.S.S. errors (that's Sudden Stop Syndrome) you begine to start thinking about how fun it is to build these babies. Sooner or later you are going to want to progress to the next level of building and make a plane that really looks like a plane. So you build a kit that is like a real plane. Then pretty close is no longer good enough so you start thinking even more scale and start trying learn all the tricks and tips. My goal is to be building "extream Scale" within 10-12 years.... I have a long way to go There are certian types of planes that really are beautiful to me... Golden Age. I really love the GeeBees and the Scheider Cup planes and hope to specialize in that era... however I will eventually have to build soem WW1 planes as well. WWII planes really dont excite me... no accounting for taste, I guess
No offense to sport fliers, but I cannot imagine flying a profile plane and I am not a fan of ARFs either. I think that if you go with an arf, you will not have the needed understanding of how your plane works and the basic physics of flight. But hey, what do I know!
Either way, building scale or ARF is still better then sitting on a stool in The Thirsty Owl every night!

Keith

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