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1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

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1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Old 04-06-2008, 02:07 PM
  #26  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

I have a CD with 150+ pictures of the MoF FG-1D that was given to me by Kirk Sonnier several years ago. It is chock full of some really fantastic pictures of just about every inch of the Corsair. They are very large format pics, about 2-3 times bigger than the resized samples below. I will gladly supply a copy of the CD free of charge to anyone participating in this build. Just send me a private email with your request and your shipping address.

Chad
[email protected]




Old 04-06-2008, 02:56 PM
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airwolf crazy
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Greetings,

I am new here and just starting to research the Corsair. I look forweard to reading this thread.

Christopher
Old 04-06-2008, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Thanks Chad, some of the best detail photos i've seen (and I have started to collect a large number). The photo of the tail is great, you can even see the pinking tape on the elevators in more detail than you usually see (nice angle too on the fairings between the tail group, and trim tab detail).
Old 04-06-2008, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Here is a a Maru Mechanic tail wheel drawing showing the tail wheel up and down. I hope it is some help.
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Old 04-06-2008, 05:56 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Thanks, Richard. Chad had a version of that drawing as well. We've been working off that one and the Matt drawing. The intent isn't to take the conversation offline and exclude input, so if anyone wants to get looped in on the e-mail dialog, just let me know. We're doing a lot of back and forth comparisons to try to make sure to get ideal scale locations at both the extended and retracted positions and to make sure the none of the arms bind against the fuse spine. I wouldn't be surprised if Chad has a revised prototype to post later on tonight.

Tom
Old 04-06-2008, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Thanks for the update!
Old 04-06-2008, 09:14 PM
  #32  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Alright gents, today saw the laser fired up and the first empennage kit is cut. No serious issues were encountered other than my concerns about the 3/8" and 1/2" thick balsa being at the extreme limits of what I can cut and get a decent edge. I would rather have these parts CNC router cut but, if not, I can do it on the laser. The kit consists of 66 parts and includes everything with the exception of sheeting, a couple of balsa blocks for the tips, and some strip stock. All of that is off the shelf or easily made by the builder.

Cost for the tail kit will be $40 if I supply the wood or $25 if you supply your own wood. I'll get the list together of interested parties and we can nail down who wants a kit and when. Onward and upward!

Old 04-06-2008, 09:45 PM
  #33  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Here is the list I have of parties who have expressed interest in the tail kit. I know there were others and I apologize up front if I have missed you. Since I don't know everyone by name I've just posted your RCU handle.

Tripower455
Riddle4U
fordy8
joey snaproll
rustypep
grh 70
redr00ster (2kits)

Please either email me directly or PM me to confirm your order and let me know if you want the kit ASAP or if you would rather hold off until a couple have been built and the kinks worked out. Also please indicate if you will be supplying your own wood or if you want me to supply it.

[email protected]

Below is a materials list of what wood is required.

1/16" BALSA
[email protected] 4" X 16"
(SHOULD BE MEDIUM TO HARD)

1/8" BALSA
[email protected] 4" X 36"

1/4" BALSA
[email protected] 3" X 24"

3/8" BALSA
[email protected] 4" X 21"
(SOFT BALSA PREFERRED)

1/2" BALSA
[email protected] 4" X 15"
(SOFT BALSA PREFERRED)

1/32" BIRCH PLYWOOD
[email protected] 12" X 24"


There are also small quantities of 1/8 light ply and 1/8 birch ply that I will supply since they are so miniscule.
Old 04-07-2008, 12:09 AM
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rustypep
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

I figured I would ask here since this will be an ongoing issue. How do you want to handle payment Chad? MO? Check? Paypal? etc.? I was in Toledo on Friday and had a great time. All the motivation I need to get back on some projects.
Old 04-07-2008, 12:02 PM
  #35  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build


ORIGINAL: rustypep

I figured I would ask here since this will be an ongoing issue. How do you want to handle payment Chad? MO? Check? Paypal? etc.? I was in Toledo on Friday and had a great time. All the motivation I need to get back on some projects.

I trust you guys so any of the above forms of payment will work fine and I am set up for Paypal for those that would like to use it.
Old 04-07-2008, 12:24 PM
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Tripower455
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Chad.... Beautiful work!

I will take 2 sets when you are ready to ship!

Well, take care of the guys that want to start right away, then i'll take 2 sets!


Nice work on the tailwheel drawings too guys! I am glad I didn't start building mine yet!

Old 04-07-2008, 02:03 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

ORIGINAL: Tripower455

Chad.... Beautiful work!

I will take 2 sets when you are ready to ship!

Well, take care of the guys that want to start right away, then i'll take 2 sets!


Nice work on the tailwheel drawings too guys! I am glad I didn't start building mine yet!

Thanks for the patience on the tailwheels. I literally gave myself a headache yesterday looking at four different sets of drawings, comparing geometry, relative position to the fuse and empennage in both the up and down positions, etc. It's interesting when you compare sets of drawings side by side how the little scale differences start to show up as you overlay the respective parts and compare the outlines. I think the original drawing that Richard posted on the tailwheel is still the best reference we have. We continue to use the Matt drawings to fine-tune the scale locations of the wheel at both the up and down positions. As I mentioned earlier, If you build the tailwheel as I did my original one, I think you will get a result that no one other than a Corsair scholar with a set of drawings in their hand would ever find a flaw with, but I think with some iteration, we get better and better. My feedback to Chad now is really nitpicky stuff, like "when you overlay the Matt gear door outline, it doesn't look exactly right in the up position with respect to the door and the leading edge of the horizontal stab." He does a great job of taking my sometimes random feedback and making sense out of it on paper. When we are done taking our best shot, I'd like you all to jump on it like a pack of rabid dogs and tear it apart if you can. I think it's up to everyone how scale they want to make their project, but we should start with a "Super Scale" reference design, and not something haphazardly pasted together. Also, once we get happy with the major assembly, we'll then add back the tailhook to provide for those that may want to build a carrier based variant. I don't think I will focus on validating the longer tailwheel design. Someone else that is building one of those versions may want to go over it again once we get the base version set.

I honestly wouldn't sweat the tailwheel for a while if I were you. I'd encourage you to focus on getting your tailgroup built and then get along with the fuselage framing. If we get the drawings spot-on as I think we will, you may not need a built tailwheel for a few weeks.

In the meantime, I'm going to experiment with a couple of techniques to make the visible portion of the build truly scale. As I've spent time with it over the weekend, I asked myself "does a couple of pieces of PC board soldered to a brass tube with some angle bracket really look like the pictures below?" There are at least three variants here including a couple of dash-5s so I want to get a little bit more upclose and personal with the local FG-1D (also pictured) to make sure they are similar. I'll let you form your own conclusions and build to a degree of scale that makes you really satisfied. I think I'll take mine a little further by blending in some styrene, balsa and microballoons to make the outline a little more convincing. Some other things that I'll improve are the attachment of the hold down hook and the tailhook to Part B. The prototype design has them pinned through the full width of the shock base, and the photos clearly show that that just isn't right. Since it's no harder to do it the right way than to do it a different way, I'll try to go ahead and do it the right way. And I will commit to be the guinea pig on at least the first 2-3 assemblies including posting finished weights and comparisons to the prototype design which I will keep on hand. At the end of it all, I'll also be willing to pass along my prototype to someone in the group that may not want to mess with it at all for $10 + postage which should just about cover the material consumption.

Onward and upward!
Tom
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:06 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

The weekend of work on the tailwheel also reminded me of another thing - Platt's Laws of Scale Modeling. While many of us will never compete with a model, I think there area lot of "truths" here about the ongoing quest to "get it right." Dave's last word on things that resonates with me is "when it's no more difficult to do a thing the right way than it is to do it a different way, why not just go ahead and do it the right way?" I'm a big fan of some of Platt's building techniques and enjoyed these too.

Platt's Laws of Scale Modeling

The following laws have been compiled from observations made over a lifetime of building competition scale models. It will be noticed that, like "Murphy's Law", while formulated for amusement, they are nevertheless true.
Dave Platt

[ul][*] All of the best information on a subject arrives the day the model is completed, and proves conclusively that what you have done is wrong. [*] You never finish a scale model. You just stop working on it. [*] Those subjects requiring the greatest number of working channels have the least room for radio gear. [*] How right it looks matters more than how right it is. [*] Competitive scale modeling is about replication, not authentication. [*] Given a choice, judges will believe wrong information over right. [*] Live by the principle of scarfology. Things disappear from the marketplace, so scarf them up while the scarfing is good. [*] Experience has demonstrated that the worst 3-views of any subject are the ones that came form the factory. The best were done by some careful modeler who wanted an accurate model and made his 3-view a labor of love. [*] Never, ever, use color photos in documentation. [*] The weak link in the RC Scale reliability chain is still - the engine. [*] A fair model with a good docs-book will outscore an excellent model with a poor docs-book. [*] Scale RC is a very relaxing hobby – if you can stand the pace. [*] Big models fly; small models flit. [*] First, it’s got to fly. [*] No amount of flying will improve your static score. [*] It’s a mistake to take a scale model out to fly while you still like it. [*] Whenever a manufacturer improves his product, the old one is much better than the new one.
[/ul]

I particlularly thought about the first one as I compared drawings and photos on the tailwheel. And as we are talking about documentation, two new books show up in the mail today. I love new books!

Tom
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:28 PM
  #39  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

ORIGINAL: Tripower455

Chad.... Beautiful work!

I will take 2 sets when you are ready to ship!

Well, take care of the guys that want to start right away, then i'll take 2 sets!


Nice work on the tailwheel drawings too guys! I am glad I didn't start building mine yet!

You got it Tripower, and thanks!

Orders are coming in and I will be putting together a wood order ASAP so if you want be included among the first run please let me know as soon as you can.

Richard (rwright142) has agreed to be the guinea pig and run with the first set of parts which I will be shipping out to him in the next day or two. He will be providing feedback on any issues as well as (I hope) what he likes and does not like or any areas that may be unclear. This will free me up to continue work on the tailwheel as well as get the fuselage finalised for production.

PS - Kudos to Tom as well for his hard work on the tailwheel. He's doing the tough work, ie, the research.
Old 04-07-2008, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Tom, great work on the tailwheel research. I would rather have something closer to being right as well. I would be more than interested in a set of parts from the prototype.

I sent a PM to you Chad. Are you including a set of your CAD drawings as a reference with each set of parts as you offer them? I am not sure how exact these will overlay the Royal plans but I imagine yours will be more exact based on the CAD drawings you are doing. Those parts look great. I still need to track down a set of these Royal plans.
Old 04-07-2008, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build


ORIGINAL: rustypep
I sent a PM to you Chad. Are you including a set of your CAD drawings as a reference with each set of parts as you offer them? I am not sure how exact these will overlay the Royal plans but I imagine yours will be more exact based on the CAD drawings you are doing.
A full size print of the CAD drawings will be included with each kit.
Old 04-08-2008, 12:08 AM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

ORIGINAL: rustypep

Tom, great work on the tailwheel research. I would rather have something closer to being right as well. I would be more than interested in a set of parts from the prototype.
I hope I didn't mislead on that point. I won't be cutting tailwheel parts as working with the PC board is hell on both tools and the lungs. Maybe Juan will find a bit for the CNC router that makes short work on this stuff, but I rather doubt it. What I will do is sell the early version I made from chilie's drawings for the cost of parts to anyone on this build. I'd like to hang on to it until we get the final design nailed down, but after that, it's up for grabs. It looks remarkably like the picture below.

Tom
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:29 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build


ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

ORIGINAL: Tripower455

Chad.... Beautiful work!

I will take 2 sets when you are ready to ship!

Well, take care of the guys that want to start right away, then i'll take 2 sets!


Nice work on the tailwheel drawings too guys! I am glad I didn't start building mine yet!

You got it Tripower, and thanks!

Orders are coming in and I will be putting together a wood order ASAP so if you want be included among the first run please let me know as soon as you can.

Richard (rwright142) has agreed to be the guinea pig and run with the first set of parts which I will be shipping out to him in the next day or two. He will be providing feedback on any issues as well as (I hope) what he likes and does not like or any areas that may be unclear. This will free me up to continue work on the tailwheel as well as get the fuselage finalised for production.

PS - Kudos to Tom as well for his hard work on the tailwheel. He's doing the tough work, ie, the research.


Chad, If you have enough for everyone in the first batch, I'll take my 2 kits.......

I want one for me, and one to put away for my son for when he gets older. He is 11 and a budding airplane freak..... kinda like like his dad.....
Old 04-08-2008, 10:38 AM
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Chad Veich
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Can somebody send me the who's who list so I know everybody's real name?
Old 04-08-2008, 10:48 AM
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Tripower455
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LOL.... Heck, I think at this point, more people know me as Tripower455 than my real name!
Old 04-08-2008, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Tom, I will be attempting to replicate the structure on the TW as you previously mentioned. I thought I wood maybe solder some brass to the angle bracket along it's length to form a square "U" and scrape some epoxy/balloons through the hollow in order to make it look more like the original casting. Some build-up of material seems appropriate on B, to acheive the right thickness in profile (i'll probably just add some styrene.
Old 04-08-2008, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

Tom, I will be attempting to replicate the structure on the TW as you previously mentioned. I thought I wood maybe solder some brass to the angle bracket along it's length to form a square "U" and scrape some epoxy/balloons through the hollow in order to make it look more like the original casting. Some build-up of material seems appropriate on B, to acheive the right thickness in profile (i'll probably just add some styrene. I intend to build the tail hook assembly (even though I'm a land based plane), will that be layered onto the original CAD tail wheel plan? Thanks, Eric
Old 04-08-2008, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

So here's where we are on the TW. Based on Chad's observations that my initial build looked taller than the plan-view, I grabbed everything I could find and did lots of drawings and calculations, and pretty much ended up right back where I started -with two minor new learnings:
[ul][*] Other than the position of the gear door and the pivot point, both the Matt drawings and the plan view are pretty useless with respect to the tailwheel[*] A lot can be done to make the visible part more scale as I mentioned above. I'll do a "pimped-out" tailwheel pretty soon.
[/ul]

My final conclusions and the drawings I used are below. Chad will incorporate these back in the CAD file and send some revised drawings shortly. We will add-in a tailhook option too. Chilie reached out and may still be interested in doing some more clean-up and detail too. I'll continue to work to get a great set of end-to-end drawings along with detailed assembly instructions.

My conclusions:
[ul][*] The bulkhead location on the planview is correct[*] The Part B-Downtube-angle brace-Part I geometry is correct on the Aune design. The reference angles are noted below. More attention should be paid to this than the alignment of Part A and Part B as these are the bits that you see.[*] The tailwheel hub should be at 20-24% of the h-stab when retracted depending on the fork design. The gear doors on the plan view are within that range and can be used as a reference.[*] The pivot point at the bulkhead should be 1.1 cm from the aft face of the PC board mount.[*] The distance from the pivot point to the wheel axle should be 14.8 cm[*] No one that I found draws the TW correctly in relative compressed and uncompressed postions. It pivots aroung the radius formed by the line described above (pivot point to TW hub) - not straight up and down.[*] Almost every drawing is inaccurate on some point, so choose your references carefully
[/ul]

Implications for you:
[ul][*] If you build your tailwheel according to chilies original cut sheet, and redesign the forks to the scale length and shape, you will have a very good scale tailwheel[*] The biggest consideration is to get the 14.8 cm measurement spot on. Everything else is driven by that.[*] Some sanding of Arm C and movement of the drill points will be required to get the retraction perfect and to fit into the fuse. Chad will rework those parts.
[/ul]

Tom
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:15 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

In the Aero Detail 25 Vought F4U Corsair book, it states the tall tailwheel is 165mm longer than the short. It was lengthend on the F4U-1A and later models to improve visibility while taxiing. The inflated tire used was 318mm x 114mm.

Scott
Old 04-08-2008, 03:29 PM
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Default RE: 1/6 Scale F4U Corsair Group Build

That's great, Scott. That confirms my suspicion that the scale tailwheel is closer to 2.25 inches than to 2 inches (actual 2.208).

Tom

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