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1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Old 09-15-2008, 10:10 PM
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Shrky
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

A little more work on the Bebe,

The first picture is a drawing of the aileron bell cranks for a full scale Nieuport, and the second is the ones I made for mine. The third photo is one fitted in place, I think they came out not to bad. I made the bell cranks by cutting the shape out of 3/32 aluminum sheet and laminating those with lite ply to allow me to sand an oval cross section. 9/32 aluminum tubing was alumiwelded in place. I slipped pieces of 5/16 brass tubing over the aluminum tubing to prevent the screws that will go through the torque tube from egging out the holes in the aluminum tubing (that K&S aluminum tubing is very soft) Then a fillet of epoxy for strength and to give them that cast look, then a little filing and sanding. The rear spar was cut to get the bell crank in and will be spliced with a piece of spruce between the upper and lower rear spars and shear webs will be added both sides the length of both the foward and rear spars.

Scott


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Old 09-25-2008, 11:39 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Hey all,

Got a little more done on the N.11 The aileron is complete and working. I used a hinge very much like the full scale except I didn't split the hinge block. The first photo is the mostly completed wing. The second is one of the hinge blocks, I still have to neaten up the gaps with some scrap balsa. To remove the aileron the screws are removed and the brass straps are taken off and the aileron and torque tube will slide out of the wing. The third is a look at the edge. I'm particularly pleased with the way this came out. I used 1/8" dia. brass tubing for the edge. And the last two show the amount of aileron travel. I still have some braces to make and install between the last rib and the edging. And the laminations for the pilot cutout are drying and will be installed in the next couple of days. Now for a question. The forward spar is two 5/8"x1/4" spruce. The rear spar is two 1/2"x3/16" spruce. I plan to put shear webs but I'm not sure what to use for them. Should I use balsa or lite ply for the shear webs and should I put them on both the front and rear sides of both spars?

Thanks,
Scott Dean
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:36 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11


ORIGINAL: Shrky

And the laminations for the pilot cutout are drying and will be installed in the next couple of days. Now for a question. The forward spar is two 5/8"x1/4" spruce. The rear spar is two 1/2"x3/16" spruce. I plan to put shear webs but I'm not sure what to use for them. Should I use balsa or lite ply for the shear webs and should I put them on both the front and rear sides of both spars?

Thanks,
Scott Dean

Hi Scott, the wing and aileron look great, very scale construction! I wish I'd see these all these images when I started working on my N.10, I especially had difficulties with the aileron setup. Is the aileron LE on that pic a half-depth hardwood dowel?
For the shear webs, if you go with ply you should be able to get away with reinforcing one side of each spar to get a very rigid unit (although I would bolster wing-strut attachment points on both sides).
Vertical grain balsa webs would be equally strong if added to both sides (full box spar) as well as adding less weight.
It looks like you've used ply cap strips, these should already provide a lot of torsional strength to the structure. Will you add any internal bracing to the wing?

As always impressive workmanship, its a joy to see everything come together!
Old 09-27-2008, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Trev,

Thanks for the kind words. As for the aileron leading it's 1/4"x1" balsa stock. I ran a line down the center of the long axis and used a v shaped gouge exacto blade to cut a small groove the length of the leading edge. Then I wrapped a 1/4" dowel with sand paper and ran it down the groove until I had a nice half round channel in the aileron leading edge stock. Then I slid the leading edge stock between the rear wing spar and the aileron torque tube and marked where the wing rib cap strips and the aileron leading edge stock met top and bottom. Connecting those lines allowed me to trim the aileron leading edge so it would be as wide as the wing ribs with their cap strips. I then removed the aileron torque tube from the wing and epoxied it to the aileron leading edge. When that dried I cut aileron ribs from my drawings and notched the leading edge of the ribs with a rat tailed file to fit over the part of the torque tube that was exposed behind the aileron leading edge. These were cut just slightly narrower than the aileron leading edge to allow for the aileron rib cap strips to be flush with the top of the aileron leading edge. Then the top and bottom forward edges were rounded with a sanding bar so the cross section of the aileron leading edge formed a flattened D shape. The aileron leading edge on the full scale is not a half round but is actually flat in the center with rounded upper and lower edges. Below is a drawing of the aileron leading edge in cross section. The cap strips are two layers of 1/64" ply. Why two layers? Well I could come up with some B.S. about added strength but the fact is I had a ton of 1/64" ply laying around and none of the local hobby shops had 1/32" ply that was long enough for the ribs. I think I'm going to go with double sided vertical grain balsa for the shear webs both you and another poster on RCSB suggested the same thing. The Bebe is coming along slowly but surely, I've found the hardest part of building completely from scratch is the engineering of how to make the parts and how to fit them together.

Thanks again,
Scott
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:05 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11


Hi Scott, just wondering if there's any news on the nieuport? I'm curious to see the next stages of your design

btw very nice work with the ailerons and hinges
Old 11-13-2008, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Trev,

No real progress, I haven't had very much time to work on it lately and I'm still working out if I'm going to have the wings two pieces or one and how I'm going to attach the wings to the cabanes. Additionally I've turned my attention somewhat to my Zero as I want to make sure that is ready for next flying season.

Thanks,
Scott
Old 08-17-2009, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Hello
I have decided to look for a set of plans to build my own Bebe. How is your build going? I want something different as for Balsa USA has others and that is what many have. Would enjoy viewing any pics or info you would have to share. Thanks!
Old 08-17-2009, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Twisted
Good luck on finding plans for a 1/3 scale N-11. I think that is why Scott is doing his own and also why I am dong my own plans.
When this flying season comes to an end and the building season begins I am getting back into my N-11 project. I am drawing plans as I go......
build a little, then draw a litttle and hoping to finsih with a good flying plane and also a set of plans good enough for others to build from.
So far I have the fuse top and side, the rudder and also the stab and elevator drawings almost completed.
The lower wing plan is complete and work continues on the top wing. A lot of details have not been accomplished yet - things like hardware......brackets and connecting points, landing gear and other stuff, but I guess that is what this winter is for......
I need a competition plane for next season and this is going to be it. The Scalemasters Championships are going to be here in Indiana next year and I want to use the N-11 to get qualified.
That's the goal. Time will tell if I succeed.
Cheers,
Art
Old 08-17-2009, 11:13 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Couldn't you just buy the Proctor plans and scale those up to 1/3 scale? You'd have to fiddle with wood sizes but I would imagine that N11 plans would scale up rather easily. In fact, I'd be tempted (was tempted) to just work off enlarged technical drawings. The N11 has a pretty straight forward structure.
Old 08-18-2009, 12:51 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

You could also enlarge the George Marsden 1/4 scale N.II plans.
Old 08-18-2009, 06:07 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Ab....I went that route about 3 years ago......to make a long story short, I couldn't match up my color scheme with the end result......for me it seemed that the span vs chord wasn't quite right.......I do know that there are a lot of 3 views and they are mostly all different, showing different spans and rib placements. If you are going for scale competition just make sure that you build to match you documentation.
Cheers,
Art
Old 08-18-2009, 08:47 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

ORIGINAL: R/C Art
Ab....I went that route about 3 years ago......to make a long story short, I couldn't match up my color scheme with the end result......for me it seemed that the span vs chord wasn't quite right.......I do know that there are a lot of 3 views and they are mostly all different, showing different spans and rib placements. If you are going for scale competition just make sure that you build to match you documentation.
Cheers,
Art
I've been told that Lou Proctor based his design on a replica N11 so some inaccuracies crept in through that route. I decided to build off enlargements of the Joe Nieto N11 drawings, which I'm sure also have their inaccuracies but are much more interesting than simple 3-views. For a N17 it'd be hard to beat the Macchi drawings as a reference.

My main point was that the N11 is structurally a simple aircraft so I don't see a need to do much "conversion" from scale structure to model structure. For a 1/3 scale N11, I'd essentially just build a 1/3 scale replica. If it was good enough for Mr. Nieuport, it's good enough for me!

Old 08-18-2009, 09:04 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

For what it's worth........Proctor kit......moved battery and two servos to engine compartment for weight.......covering is stained with instant coffee
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:07 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Tom, what covering did you use and did you stain it before or after covering the model?
Old 08-18-2009, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11


ORIGINAL: tom czenthe
.......covering is stained with instant coffee
Watchout ! Plane could become nervous.
Old 08-18-2009, 11:07 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

200, Nieuport 11's were also built by a Russian mfg. called "DUX". Seventy (70) more were built under license by Mosca, Anatra and Shchatinnin factories. This info. comes by way of the book, French Aircraft of the First World War by Davilla & Soltan. It is published by Flying Machines Press. I don't think there is a more comprehensive book on French WW1 aircraft. As you all may know it is impossible to notice any difference between the Nieuport 11 and 16 with the only difference being the bigger 110hp LeRhone in the 16.
Old 08-18-2009, 11:19 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Other than the above mentioned book the best source I have found for the Nieuport 11, 16, 17, 21, 23 is the Windsock Datafile Special Vol.1, Nieuport Fighters by J M Bruce. It includes 3-views by Ian Stair in 1/48th scale.
Old 08-18-2009, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

JohnF
I am using that reference for my project, the J.M. Bruce vol 1. Nieuport Fighters. Lots of good info in there. I am going to do the Belgium N-11 that is shown on the first color plate.
I also have been tempted to use the Joseph Nieto drawings ........biggest glaring difference is the rectangular fuselage. All the other references that I have seen show the fuse narrower at the bottom than it is at the top .......that being said, I like the drawings and just might build one from that reference, too. It has a lot of good details and a shows the airfoils very well.
Cheers,
Art

Scott
Is it ok to use your thread for our N-11 discussion? Or should we start a new one?
Art
Old 08-18-2009, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

hey Art, This is what progres looks like:-)
Old 08-18-2009, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Art, The drawings that show the fuselage narrow on the bottom is correct. The Ian Stair drawings are the ones to use for your reference. Good luck.
Old 08-18-2009, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Dave
I have been working on the N-11, off and on, since - well, for a while now. Since I sold my Eindecker, I haven't been able to participate since the Mint Julep........missing the Nats was a bummer. I am going to rectify that this winter. At least now I have a fun scale entry to take to the SIRCSC (Southern Indiana RC Modelers Scale Classic - or something close to that) which is the week end of Sep 19.

JohnF
Roger that......my fuse already has the tapered look.

Don't forget about the Hoosier Dawn Patrol this very weekend 21, 22 and 23 Aug at the AMA National Flying Site in Muncie, In.

Gotta get out to the shop!

Cheers,
Art
Old 08-18-2009, 07:21 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Hope you don't mind but you will all find this site extremely helpful. It is the restoration of the only existing Belgium Nieuport 23. http://users.skynet.be/fa233213/En/R...lAircraft.html the photo's are worth a thousand words.
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11


ORIGINAL: JohnF

Hope you don't mind but you will all find this site extremely helpful. It is the restoration of the only existing Belgium Nieuport 23. http://users.skynet.be/fa233213/En/R...lAircraft.html the photo's are worth a thousand words.
very useful
although i'm in the final stages of a Proctor N11, these photos clarify a few things for me......thx for posting the link

-mike
Old 08-19-2009, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Don

covering is Sig Koveral and it is stained after it is applied and then clearcoated......I used a rag to rub the stain on to simulate weathering streaks

nice part is if you don't like it...just whipe it off with a little water

Tom
Old 08-19-2009, 07:06 PM
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Default RE: 1/3 Scale Nieuport 11

Hope you don't mind. I have been thinking about doing a N.16 in 1/3 scale for a long time and glad to see it being done. This is the N.16 I would like to eventually build using enlarged George Marsden 1/4 scale N.11 plans. It is Willy Coppens early ride which he soon traded in for a Hanriot HD1. The colors would have been the same as the Belgium restored N.23 photo above. This color profile also has the color of the "Cocotte" (paper horse) incorrect as it was blue not red.
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