AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
10-17-2008, 10:28 PM
#28
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
I am going to hammer away at the Waco over the weekend, I took the evening off and watched a couple movies with the wife. I think I can get one panel completed tomorrow.
Later!!
Anthony
Later!!
Anthony
10-18-2008, 11:59 AM
#31
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Too keep the wife happy(if she's not happy nobody's happy
) I just went and picked up a bunch of storage containers to hold my kit componants. I do not have enough room in my hoddy roon to store the entire kit as well as have room to build so I will be using my home theatre as storage. I will spend most of today just seperating the kit out into sub kits and packing them away to be pulled as needed. This should also keep me from searching for somethng every time I go to build. This will also help me get familiar with everything in the kit and I can make sure there is nothing missing.
I am also putting off gluing anyting until I double check the wing shape, the Waco has a very unique shape to the wing tips. They taper up from the bottom and more at the trailing edge than the leading edge, the wing appears to be straigh across the top but tapers up from the bottom. This effectively gives the wing tip washout and prevents tip stalls. So far from looking at it in the jig if it is off it isn't by much, my Pepino Waco was a mile off and I have to redraw the last 4 ribs for each panel. The kit as it comes supplied is very scale but there is always room for improvement when you try to compete at the top level and that is what my goal is with this plane.
On the plus side there are very few things that look like they will have to be modified at 1st glance.
Later!!
Anthony
) I just went and picked up a bunch of storage containers to hold my kit componants. I do not have enough room in my hoddy roon to store the entire kit as well as have room to build so I will be using my home theatre as storage. I will spend most of today just seperating the kit out into sub kits and packing them away to be pulled as needed. This should also keep me from searching for somethng every time I go to build. This will also help me get familiar with everything in the kit and I can make sure there is nothing missing. I am also putting off gluing anyting until I double check the wing shape, the Waco has a very unique shape to the wing tips. They taper up from the bottom and more at the trailing edge than the leading edge, the wing appears to be straigh across the top but tapers up from the bottom. This effectively gives the wing tip washout and prevents tip stalls. So far from looking at it in the jig if it is off it isn't by much, my Pepino Waco was a mile off and I have to redraw the last 4 ribs for each panel. The kit as it comes supplied is very scale but there is always room for improvement when you try to compete at the top level and that is what my goal is with this plane.
On the plus side there are very few things that look like they will have to be modified at 1st glance.
Later!!
Anthony
10-18-2008, 01:58 PM
#33
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
The tips are really difficult to get correct on a Waco,
I have alot of pics of full scale wings with and without the covering and measurements of where the taper begins. I will measure all this out on the 1st panel when I get it framed, If I need to make adjustments to the last few ribs I will do that to the 1st panel then copy that onto the ribs for the remaining panels before framing them up. It is not very difficult to do but it is key characteristic of the Waco that will drop your static score in a hurry if it isn't correct.
I have all the wing ribs seperated out and I am now sperating all the tail feather pieces.
Anthony
I have alot of pics of full scale wings with and without the covering and measurements of where the taper begins. I will measure all this out on the 1st panel when I get it framed, If I need to make adjustments to the last few ribs I will do that to the 1st panel then copy that onto the ribs for the remaining panels before framing them up. It is not very difficult to do but it is key characteristic of the Waco that will drop your static score in a hurry if it isn't correct.
I have all the wing ribs seperated out and I am now sperating all the tail feather pieces.
Anthony
10-18-2008, 02:29 PM
#34
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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Rack,
I have a couple of CDs that show the construction of a full size YKS wing that is very similar to the YMF wing. See the documentation list on the House of Moy site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ or PM me for more info.
The key to getting the correct shaped wing tips I believe starts with the aileron spar. It starts to taper up halfway between the last 2 full size ribs and only the last few inches on top taper slightly down. The last full size rib (W-6a in picture) tapers up from the rear spar to the aileron spar (see tip picture). Ribs W-7 and W-8 are slightly below a line parrallel to the tops of the other ribs near the centerline of the wing and turn downward more toward the leading edge. They are also slightly twisted to raise the trailing edge to meet the tip bow at the rear and at the front in effect building in a little "wash out". W-8 has a pronounced upward curve on the bottom to meet the leading edge.
The rear main spar starts to taper up at the outside of rib W-6a to meet the tip bow with a slight taper on top from W-8 to the tip bow.
The front main spar also starts to taper up at W-6a. It then tapers quite sharply at W-7 towards the joint at W-8, the tip bow and spar with the plywood sheeting reinforcing the joint.
The tip bow appears to have an up curve where it meets the leading edge but this seems to be more of a result of shaping the joint and the plywood sheeting than a deliberate curve built in. The tip bow is flat as far as I can tell from front to rear.
I have a couple of CDs that show the construction of a full size YKS wing that is very similar to the YMF wing. See the documentation list on the House of Moy site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ or PM me for more info.
The key to getting the correct shaped wing tips I believe starts with the aileron spar. It starts to taper up halfway between the last 2 full size ribs and only the last few inches on top taper slightly down. The last full size rib (W-6a in picture) tapers up from the rear spar to the aileron spar (see tip picture). Ribs W-7 and W-8 are slightly below a line parrallel to the tops of the other ribs near the centerline of the wing and turn downward more toward the leading edge. They are also slightly twisted to raise the trailing edge to meet the tip bow at the rear and at the front in effect building in a little "wash out". W-8 has a pronounced upward curve on the bottom to meet the leading edge.
The rear main spar starts to taper up at the outside of rib W-6a to meet the tip bow with a slight taper on top from W-8 to the tip bow.
The front main spar also starts to taper up at W-6a. It then tapers quite sharply at W-7 towards the joint at W-8, the tip bow and spar with the plywood sheeting reinforcing the joint.
The tip bow appears to have an up curve where it meets the leading edge but this seems to be more of a result of shaping the joint and the plywood sheeting than a deliberate curve built in. The tip bow is flat as far as I can tell from front to rear.
10-18-2008, 04:16 PM
#35
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Thanks John,
I expect you to drop in here from time to time and keep me honest I think I did a decent job on the tips on my Pepino but there was still room for improvement. I will try to get these tips spot on. I am also going to run the wiring for the tip lights early on during the framing process to avoid any issues there. I will do a little searching for some LED'd for the wing tips and fabricate the original style tip light housings.
Later!!
Anthony
I expect you to drop in here from time to time and keep me honest
I think I did a decent job on the tips on my Pepino but there was still room for improvement. I will try to get these tips spot on. I am also going to run the wiring for the tip lights early on during the framing process to avoid any issues there. I will do a little searching for some LED'd for the wing tips and fabricate the original style tip light housings. Later!!
Anthony
10-18-2008, 04:23 PM
#36
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Anthony, this place has the best assortment of LEDs on the web. It is where I bought all of mine for the night flyers.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/
http://www.superbrightleds.com/
10-18-2008, 04:32 PM
#37
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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
one of the nice things about building the 40% is that all the lights i was able to buy at te auto parts store.
im thinking about leaving the cowl of mine. what do you wako nuts think?
im thinking about leaving the cowl of mine. what do you wako nuts think?
10-18-2008, 06:32 PM
#40
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Ken thanks for the link,
They have just what I am looking for and the are only $1.99 ea. I think I will make my landing light reflectors and use automotive bulbs. I will probably just find some cheap flashlights to get the reflectors from.
I now have all the laser cut parts removed from their sheets and put into sub kits, I bet I discarded 10 lbs of scrap wood between the scrap and the lightening holes. I did keep some of the good size pieces as it seems there is always a need.
Tomorrow morning the assembly begins in full force.
Anthony
They have just what I am looking for and the are only $1.99 ea. I think I will make my landing light reflectors and use automotive bulbs. I will probably just find some cheap flashlights to get the reflectors from.
I now have all the laser cut parts removed from their sheets and put into sub kits, I bet I discarded 10 lbs of scrap wood between the scrap and the lightening holes. I did keep some of the good size pieces as it seems there is always a need.
Tomorrow morning the assembly begins in full force.
Anthony
10-18-2008, 06:35 PM
#41
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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Rack,
You are out voted. I agree with Ken and Anthony, put the cowl on. The YMF/UMF with rare exception, are always flown with the cowl. It provides three things; improved cooling, streamlining and best of all - Good Looks, especially the those crabs
You are out voted. I agree with Ken and Anthony, put the cowl on. The YMF/UMF with rare exception, are always flown with the cowl. It provides three things; improved cooling, streamlining and best of all - Good Looks, especially the those crabs
10-18-2008, 06:44 PM
#43
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
ORIGINAL: Big_Bird
I have found the excess wood to be very useful. I think I saved it all.
I have found the excess wood to be very useful. I think I saved it all.
I am only saving the big pieces at least for now.
10-18-2008, 07:12 PM
#44
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Rack,
Here is another vote for the cowl. Besides you are two cylinders short.
Anthony, Ken,
I here you guys on the scraps. As big as your two planes are, I bet you could build a couple of .40 sized birds with the scraps.
Here is another vote for the cowl. Besides you are two cylinders short
.Anthony, Ken,
I here you guys on the scraps. As big as your two planes are, I bet you could build a couple of .40 sized birds with the scraps.
10-19-2008, 08:03 AM
#46
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Hi Guys,
Here is the great part of having a build thread, I need some opinions here. I have went over the last 3 ribs(#10,11 and 12) and adjusted the outline of the ribs for the wing tip shape. I have modified one set of ribs and traced them onto a second set. I am attaching pics of the traced ribs and the modified ribs sitting in the wing jig. It is a little hard to see the bottom taper towards the L/E in the jig. Take a look and compare them to the full scale and let me know what you think. All the ribs will get cap strips so the exposed broken edges will get covered. I believe the top of the outer rib(#12) may be a little low, I can always add an extra 1/16" to the rib cap.
I measured it out to set the taper to start at the bottom of the aileron spar 9.3" from the tip.
Here are the pics.
Anthony
Here is the great part of having a build thread, I need some opinions here. I have went over the last 3 ribs(#10,11 and 12) and adjusted the outline of the ribs for the wing tip shape. I have modified one set of ribs and traced them onto a second set. I am attaching pics of the traced ribs and the modified ribs sitting in the wing jig. It is a little hard to see the bottom taper towards the L/E in the jig. Take a look and compare them to the full scale and let me know what you think. All the ribs will get cap strips so the exposed broken edges will get covered. I believe the top of the outer rib(#12) may be a little low, I can always add an extra 1/16" to the rib cap.
I measured it out to set the taper to start at the bottom of the aileron spar 9.3" from the tip.
Here are the pics.
Anthony
10-19-2008, 08:27 AM
#47
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
After sitting here looking at rib #12 to me it looks like the rib needs to be thinned a little from the bottom side(reduce the angle to the T/E slightly and also taper the top of the rib a bit more towards the L/E. It appears to be too rounded from the Max "T" (maximun Thickness) to the L/E.
What do you think?
Anthony
What do you think?
Anthony
10-19-2008, 08:54 AM
#48
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
I went back and modified #12 a little more. Here is another pic with the full scale side by side. I will keep at it until I get it right.
Anthony
The thickness of the rib is getting closer, it appears on the full scale the rib L/E is sitting just above center of the rib next to it. Also the angle at the bottom of my rib is still just a little too much, I will go reduce that angle just a little more and that should correct the rib thicness at the same time. I will also adjust the L/E slightly.
Anthony
Anthony
The thickness of the rib is getting closer, it appears on the full scale the rib L/E is sitting just above center of the rib next to it. Also the angle at the bottom of my rib is still just a little too much, I will go reduce that angle just a little more and that should correct the rib thicness at the same time. I will also adjust the L/E slightly.
Anthony
10-19-2008, 09:29 AM
#49
Thread Starter
RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
I think I just made the final modification to Rib #12,
Checking the taper across the pottom of ribs 10,11 and 12 it appears that everyting will come out good. The real story won't be told until the covering goes on.
This is a very monor change to the wings and the plane would just fine without these changes but as I stated I want to compete with the plane. I will now transfer the shape onto the remaining ribs for the other panels and I am ready to build.
Here is a pic of the rib shape that I am going with, I will still have the opportunity to alter the shape slightly once the wing is removed from the jig and before adding the rib caps.
Anthony
Checking the taper across the pottom of ribs 10,11 and 12 it appears that everyting will come out good. The real story won't be told until the covering goes on.
This is a very monor change to the wings and the plane would just fine without these changes but as I stated I want to compete with the plane. I will now transfer the shape onto the remaining ribs for the other panels and I am ready to build.
Here is a pic of the rib shape that I am going with, I will still have the opportunity to alter the shape slightly once the wing is removed from the jig and before adding the rib caps.
Anthony
10-19-2008, 09:33 AM
#50
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RE: AMR 33% Waco YMF-5 Build
Anthony,
I would agree that the last rib (12) needs to be thined on the bottom to a flat "Clark Y" shape, bottom parrallel to the table. The top front needs to be thinned forward of the hole slightly.
Rib 11 is fairly parrallel to rib 10 along the top, just a little shorter to fit inside the Tip Bow. It is thinner than Rib 10 and tapers from the Leading Edge back towards the trailing edge with just a slight reflex up near the TE.
The high point of rib 11 will be even with rib 10 and high point of rib 12 will be about 1/6" (one sixth) lower than rib 11.
The top of the Tip Bow will be about 1/4" lower than the high point of rib 12 according to the measurements I took last year (see post # 2698 in the Pica Waco thread) or just over 3/8" (.417") lower than the top of the wing .
Note - that the High Point of the tip ribs is about half way back along the top of rib 10 (middle of picture) or about even with the Wing Tips maximum span.
I would agree that the last rib (12) needs to be thined on the bottom to a flat "Clark Y" shape, bottom parrallel to the table. The top front needs to be thinned forward of the hole slightly.
Rib 11 is fairly parrallel to rib 10 along the top, just a little shorter to fit inside the Tip Bow. It is thinner than Rib 10 and tapers from the Leading Edge back towards the trailing edge with just a slight reflex up near the TE.
The high point of rib 11 will be even with rib 10 and high point of rib 12 will be about 1/6" (one sixth) lower than rib 11.
The top of the Tip Bow will be about 1/4" lower than the high point of rib 12 according to the measurements I took last year (see post # 2698 in the Pica Waco thread) or just over 3/8" (.417") lower than the top of the wing .
Note - that the High Point of the tip ribs is about half way back along the top of rib 10 (middle of picture) or about even with the Wing Tips maximum span.
