Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Serious climbers challenge themselves to find "new routes" up frequently climbed mountains. Likewise the serious scale modeler don't usually want to spend a year or longer making a carbon copy of a previous model. So what do you do to make sure your model is something special?

Obviously one solution it to pick an aircraft that hasn't been modeled before. That's almost not an option anymore. Another option would be to do a model in an uncommon scheme. Or a special version. Or a different scale. Or a different level of detail.

What do you do to avoid the "me too blues?"

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Do what Leo Spychella does, he kits his own one of a kind warbirds. He currently does the F4F Wildcat and is considering doing the Macchi. I guess the key here is to have the talent ,the drive and the balls to take a chance that others think the way you do.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

I think one of the problems with building scale is that often the documentable subjects are kinda rare. If you want to score hi in static you need good docs. Often these are rare for many planes, especially the WWI stuff. What ends up happening is that people model planes that they can easily and safely document. Just my .02

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Just move to Vegas where I am. You wold be the only other scale guys out here, besides me. And if you built to compete then well, you'd be the only one at the contest! I am on here and RCSB because its all pattern out here. I go into the hobby shop and they say, "You are going to glass your plane?? What about all that weight? You wont be able to hover your P-39 with all that weight!! How will you perform blah blah blah..." Sorry.. I digress

Carl:D

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

I go with the "unusual" planes. Granted, often there is not that much documentation out there, or you are taking the documentation "piece meal" from MANY different sources.

I don't build my planes to show them, I build them to fly, but I do try to keep them as scale as possible.

One of my "projects" nearly drove me crazy (I think I am already there, but that is another story :D ). This project was an FW-56 (Stosser). Looking at actual photos of planes in the same flight squadren, one plane had steps built in/moulded into the strut fairing and the one next to it didn't, yet both planes were "supposedly" delivered to the squadren one day apart direct from the same factory. It got worse from there. But then I am not telling you folks anything you don't already know.

So far my "unusual" planes include a FW-56 (Stosser) [exhaust ports not installed at time of photo], a Bellanca Airbus (land version) and a Rearwin Speedster with a DOCUMENTED one of a kind FACTORY paint scheme as verified by Edwin Rearwin. The color and markings are correct for plane number 314. All of these planes are 40 size.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Bob, your SE5a project is a good example. The SE5a is a pretty regularly modeled WWI subject -- as is the Albatros DIII/V. What makes your SE5a project special TO YOU??? Are you shooting for a higher level of technical perfection? Will the model have any unique features? My one and only scale model, the EIII (I'm getting tired talking about it so others must sure be tired hearing about it), had a couple of details that I haven't seen on other EIII models. For example, I thought my gear was pretty good (unfortunately better than the rest of the model) and had the wooden fairings as on the original. This is a pretty seldomly rendered detail. Also I put on the stritching on the underside (white painted staples to simulate the cord over a black Sharpie line). I don't think I've seen this before. The rest of the model was pretty pedestrian.

You're right about the difficulty of documenting a model. Even for those of us that don't compete (but still want to do our best) it's hard to find the level of documentation needed for a serious scale model. Personally, for a model of a WWI airplane I want to have something like technical drawings showing fuse and wing structure. I don't want to have to work off external 3-views. And that greatly limits my choices.

Campy, you have some fun models there!

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

The "me too blues"

For many years I've been trying to avoid to "me too " models as well.
Lucky for me that there aren't many scale builders/flyer's in my local
area. Usually I'm the only one at my field with something different.
Being a builder , for the most part, anything available in a ARF is off
my list for that's what is most likely showing up at the fields these days.

In a way ,the ARF's have made my project selection easier, and that's
about the only thing I can thank them for.

Rite now I'm about 75% through my Top Flight Stinson. I feel fairly confident
that not many of these will show up at local events or my home field due to
the amount of work involved.

I'm not to sure about my next subject for a build but you can bet it won't be
available in a ARF when I start out. HUMMMM a 100 inch Rearwin Speedster
sounds inviting.

With all the plans available today our choices are almost endless.

Regards
Roby

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

I am with you guys!!
I like all the warbirds like the next guy, but everyone has one.

so.........

I found this gem after many years of searching.

My father designed this kit in 78' I found it online still in the box!

Finishing up and getting readt to glass her soon!

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

I never have to worry about havine a "me too" airplane, because I design all of the airplanes that I fly, and all are built from scratch. In my hanger you will find the following planes:

1916 Bristol Scout - 1/4 and 1/3 scales
J-3 Cub - 1/3 and 40% scales
J4-E Cub - 1/3 scale
Ercoupe - 1/5, 1/4 and 1/3 scales
Aeronca Sedan - 1/3 scale
Stinson SR-10 - 30% scale
J3-Kitten - 1/3 and 40% scale
Laser 200 - 1/3 scale
E2 - Taylor Cub - 1/4 scale
Piper Tomahawk - 1/4 scale

I flew the J4-E Cub just today and demonstrated to a bus load of sixth graders how the aircraft controls work and let them watch the airplane movements as I moved the transmitter sticks. They were amazed. Antoher bus load is scheduled for tomorrow.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Jim, all I can say is you must have an ENORMOUS hanger! :D

Interesting point though: "If I built it from scratch, it's unique." I suppose that could start us down that old slippery path of just what counts as scratch-built. And for that matter when in comes to scale aircraft, I suppose it ultimately doesn't matter at all whats on the "inside" (i.e. how it was designed) since the outline and detailing would still have to hold to the same documentable standards.

The reason I'm thinking about this issue of uniqueness is that just about every one of the WWI aircraft I'd ever want to dedicate a year or more to building has already been done -- at done at a TOP GUN level. I'd have to feel there was something special about the model I ended up with -- other than that I built it.

Hmmm..maybe I need to forget about "modeling for God" and just model for myself.

--Don

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

I'll never be on the scale level you guys have reached, as I got back into modeling way too late in life.

I prefer standoff and/or sport scale models that fly well, and I kit build, ARF build, and plans build. To avoid the "me too" blues, I'm constantly searching for documented, unusual paint schemes that are also easy for my old eyes to see against the sky, trees, grass, etc. The pic is an example- a competely recolored Lanier F-86D ARF. There was a "b" movie called "The Last Chase", starring Lee Majors and Burgess Meredith. Meredith played Captain J.G. Williams, and he flew a Canadair Sabre 6 (I think) that was colored like this. Someday I'll do a Sabre 6 (jet, I hope) in this coloring, but for now, the Sabre Dog will have to do.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

I can't help but model "me,too" planes. I mean, they ARE the popular models, a lot of people like them, so there are more kits, plans, etc available. I just try to find a little known feature or variant of a particular plane and include it in the details. It may not make the plane fly any better, indeed, it may be something that took a lot of time to make and only be something that's likely to get torn off. I found documentation on L-4's that were equipped with bazookas in WWII, and they aren't usually thought of as "tank buster" airplanes. But I thought it would be a great way to accurately portray a well-known, and modelled-to-death airplane in a less well-known version. I am going to do the same thing on my upcoming Birddog project.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Haven't got there yet (although the kits and/or wood are/is on hand) but I plan to bash an Aeroplane Works/Ziroli P-51D into an A-36 Apache, then bash a Ziroli P-61B into a "C" with fighter brakes. Haven't given any thought to the Aeroplane Works/Ziroli B-25, but I'm sure there's an odd-ball lash-up for that kit. That's for the kits/plans on hand.

When those have taken up residence in the trailer I've got plans for a Boeing 314, and I'm looking for a SuperMarine Walrus and Sikorski S-38 and S-42.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Khodges, that's a nifty detail. Sometimes it'll be just this sort of detail that really attracts me to a particular aircraft. One of the Pfalz DIIIa photos shown in the datafile shows a teddy bear permenantly fixed with a couple of wires to the fuse (facing backwards just behind the cockpit). That alone has almost convinced me to do that scheme.

Now, can anyone recommend a source for a 1/6 scale teddy bear? :D

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

I am going to ask this question a differant way , how many "me to" attempts have you seen of a great model subject .
I have seen a ton of P51 , a ton of corsiars , a few good P40 .So even when they are so common , the good ones are still so rare .
I dont think its the subject matter that make it common but its the passion for the plane that makes it extrodinary

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

As that outstanding Super Cub at Top Gun this year amply demonstrates! I think what this shows it there is a relationship between how common the model is and the level of scale detail. Even a sports scale model of an unusual plane will have plenty of WOW-factor. On the other hand, a model of a Cub or a P-51 (or a Fokker EIII) would have to totally blow me away with its scale realism to have the same effect.

I guess I look for a little of both. A somewhat unusual subject (which why I'm tending towards the Pfalz DIII instead of the Albatros DIII) and a level of scale detail that will make most people look twice. Of course most people at your typical club wouldn't know the difference.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Just have to show off my new Albatros DIII. Sure it's a little ratty looking, only has a 12" wingspan, and doesn't even fly but just think of all the fun some kid had with this tin toy pretending he was the Red Baron. Just picked this up on eBay where it was listed as a "Fokker." Today's kids (including mine) only play with plastic monsters.

How's that for a different sort of model!

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

One "interesting" plane that I like is the Boeing "Monomail". I have never seen it modeled and the major stumbling block for me would be the retractable landing gear. I don't have the machining skills or workshop to do that.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

I have a set of Pavel's plans for a ducted fan F-4 Phantom. I downsized them and built a PITN, electric F4C. The one in the picture is trimmed to look like the F-4s flown by Michigan's "Six Pack", the 191st FIG, that I worked on from 1978 until 1991. I made the upper wing orange, and the lower black, for visibility, but otherwise it's a faithful replica of AF 63-529, the first one I ever ran a Schuler Loop on. The wing is foam core, sheeted with 1/32 balsa, and the fuse is a plain box in the outline of an F4. I made the fake "engines" out of foam and sheeted them with 1/32 also.

It is my best attempt at avoiding "me too", but it did not suceed. Ended up with so much drag on the down sized wing that it only mushed in from a launch with an Astro 020 direct drive motor. Went to an 05 geared, and behold, it actually flew, but there was so much torque, that with that short wing it would only turn left, and probably didn't exceed 30-35 mph in flight. I flew it a few times and then fixed it up to be a display model.

It's hanging in my nephew's bedroom in Colorado, honorably retired.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

[[/quote]

Haven't got there yet (although the kits and/or wood are/is on hand) but I plan to bash an Aeroplane Works/Ziroli P-51D into an A-36 Apache, then bash a Ziroli P-61B into a "C" with fighter brakes. Haven't given any thought to the Aeroplane Works/Ziroli B-25, but I'm sure there's an odd-ball lash-up for that kit. That's for the kits/plans on hand.

When those have taken up residence in the trailer I've got plans for a Boeing 314, and I'm looking for a SuperMarine Walrus and Sikorski S-38 and S-42.
[/quote]

Fred, let me know if you need any extra parts in your kit-bashing endeavor.

Anyone looking for a less-than-common plane to do should have a look at Jerry Bates' catalogue. I think he is an under rated designer with a lot of interesting planes.

I have always wanted to cut kits for the Brewster Buffalo, but it is not worth it if no one wants to buy any.

I do cut kits for his Dewotine, Yak-3, B-26, and Moth Minor. Both the Dewotine and the Moth Minor are models that will tend to make one "unique" on the field.

Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
http://www.theaeroplaneworks.com
732-356-8557

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Hi Mace -

Thanks, I appreciate the offer.

I suspect I'll be making bits and pieces Nick never envisioned.

I already dropped the notion of adapting a sailplane spoiler mechanism. Didn't seem anywhere near robust enough for the sheer size of the fighter brakes and dive brakes.

BTW - I've not going to admit how long the Ziroli kits have been languishing on the to-be-built-models shelf, but your Dad was still answering phones and roaring around the shop when they were cut.

Thanks too for continuing the tradition of excellent workmanship.

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Yes Don, I do have an enormous hanger. BIG planes hanging from the ceilings everywhere. It's called a large three car garage, with a separate air-conditioned design office. Wings are stacked everywhere against the walls, each one in it's own protective cover.

I have designed a lot more airplanes than those listed. They are only the "scale" ones. I design all my models to "fly", and am not too concerned about the really small details. The fact that nobody else has a plane exactly like mine at any gathering makes it "unique", and an attention getter. I design all my models as close to exact scale as I can make them, but since I have long ago given up any sort of competition, they are not of museum quality, but they are good enough for me.

Too bad that you don't belong to our club here in Sebring, for when I design a new airplane, I will cut as many kits as there are club members that want to build one, and these kits are
given away absolutely "free" - no strings attached, except that each person must agree to get right on it and finish the model within a reasonable length of time. My free kits, of course, only include all of the balsa and plywood parts needed to complete the models; hardware is not included. So far since moving to Sebring 10 years ago, fellow club members have built 56 of my free kits, all the way from 1/5 to 40% scales, with the majority being 1/4 and 1/3 scales, all for gasoline engines.

I have a lifetime supply of balsa (and then some), and this is my way of giving back to the hobby for the years of fun and enjoyment that I have derived from it for 68 consecutive years, beginning in 1937.

I can tell from your posts, and the photos of your airplanes, that you are an "excellent" builder. Keep up the good work. We are indeed a dying breed!

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

abu, My SE5a is kinda different (I think) because it's the only one modeled after the French Replica that I'm aware of. I could be mistaken about that so don't take it as gospel lol. I'm trying to make my plane as well as I can and include a sufficient amount of details that will do the full scale justice. Mine isn't the first SE5a to be modeled but it is a rare plane in modeling terms. I think a lot of WWI planes are rare compared to the WWII and civilian stuff. But I have built my share of mustangs, thunderbolts, corsairs etc. And they aren't so rare ..

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

Bob, I can tell you are going all out on your SE5a just by the resin cast of the engine parts! That level of attention is bound to result in a stunning scale model. I've been frustrated by the fast that virtually anything I build while here in Japan is going to have to stay here in Japan (just like my EIII had to stay in the US). So for the moment my modeling is limited to the research and detailing. I just finish up a prototype for some spoked wheels (a new and improved prototype) and I figure if I can get the rest of the model to look like the wheels I should be OK! :D

RE: Avoiding "ME TOO" models
 

abu, just think though, you can build all the little parts you NEED and not have to worry about the airframe, for now. That's a luxury in a way ya know. I saw your wheels.. very kewl!! I have wheels that were supplied with my kit and they are heavy. The hub is solid plastic which I covered in fabric to make it look better. I would prefer wire wheels and the tires do come off my wheels so I could use them. The RFC (Royal flying corps) has 64 spoke wheels..the Germans and French 40 spoke. I still may build my own AFTER the plane is finished land flying! :)