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-   -   Airworld is now available in the US (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-scale-aircraft-169/3663662-airworld-now-available-us.html)

Ed 12-24-2005 02:10 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 

ORIGINAL: t_burley

with a passion for ARF's.[8D]

Merry Christmas buddy, look forward to seeing you in 5 months
.......... :D 10 - 4 good buddy ! :D

KJKimball 12-25-2005 12:34 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
Hello group. My Name is Kevin Kimball. I built a full size replica of the Gee Bee Z in 1996. I am friends with Mirco who created the R3. It is NOT a real airplane in the sense of being from our aviation past. It does not exist as a full size airplane and has not existed yet. Mirco and I became friends a few years ago when he was researching some history on Pitts Specials. We own the design rights to andmanufacture the full size Pitts Model 12 kit. We sell full size plans as well. So, I have a view on the R3 issue from a slightly different window than most of you. Simply stated, Mirco is upset that his design was used by someone to create the model that is now available and lied about the origin of the creation. The story being sold with the model is that it was a long lost Granville design. I know this is not true, so do most of you. Mirco simply wishes to have credit for his design. Ir the kit maker would simply add a one line statement such as "Based on a design by Mirco Pecorari", Mirco may be satisfied. Jim, you might consider such a statement on your site even if the overseas gang doesn't. Can't hurt. I don't think he is after some large sum of cash as some of you have indicated. I speak with him each week and know him well.

About the R3, it is NOT a Granville design in any way, shape or form. If you study the airplane a bit, you will see features that were not invented in the day of the Gee Bee racers. NACA vents for example. There are many little clues. One of you wrote that the N number was on a Cessna or some other current airplane. OK. The number Mirco placed on it has significance to him. It is his birth month and day. There is no legal restriction on the term "Gee Bee".

Mirco has not claimed to have designed the model as was mentioned. He created the design, the concept of the R3. Someone else took is copyrighted art and created the model from that.

I do have an agreement with Mirco to be the only place to build the full size R3. It is going to be a fun project.

We own the rights to the pitts Model 12. As you guys know, there are many models made of this airplane. Only one kit maker contacted us to see if it was OK to do so. That is Bob Truworthy at www.bigairplanes.com. I think it is cool to have models of our airplanes flying. The difference between the model 12 and the R3 is there are no claims by th ekit maker that their version of the model 12 was a long lost creation found in a polar ice cap in the hands of a lost WWI fighter ace.

Hopefully, this post helps clear the issue a bit for everyone.

BTW, my father, son and I fly R/C as well.

Sincerely,

Kevin Kimball
www.jimkimballenterprises.com
www.pittsmodel12.com

-JC- 12-25-2005 01:13 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
Hi Kevin,

Thank you for posting your view on the story.

I will be more than happy to write "designed by Mirco" on the website if I know that that is a fact. I have e-mailed Germany to get their view on the case.

However, let me rephrase what I posted earlier.

Airworld did NOT steal the design. The aircraft design and molds where sold to Airworld by the German company STO. A company with a reputation of excellent aircraft design in Germany. The information I have on the Airworld USA website is copied from the German website. But, if it is incorrect, I will be the first to rectify it.

Apart from two people trying to blow this way out of proportion and create some kind of public outrage, it really is a very trivial matter that can be solved easily. Let me also rephrase that every single scale aircraft on the market is a copy of someones design. So, unless Mr. Flowers et all are trying to make scale modeling impossible because they want RC kit manufacturers to build ugly sticks only or pay huge royalties to the original manufacturers, then I'd strongly suggest dropping the issue before some ambulance chasing lawyers decide to make RC scale models his/her next target.

Merry Christmas

mselby 12-26-2005 02:59 AM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
You really have two issues. One is what amounts to an advertising credit. Specifically the statement of who designed the full size plane, if made should be correct to the best of your knowledge. (This means adequate due diligence). The question of kit design ie. replication of a full size aircraft seems to be poorly understood. Intellectual property rights also involve usage. A model will not be used in the same way as a full size aircraft. The fact that the outilne is similar is not an infringement of intellectual property fights. Design in this sense would also involve physcial design elements including construction technique, and aerodynamic elements such as airfoil etc. Without attempting to render a legal opinion, the continuing discourse of model airplanes potentially infringing on intellectual property rights of full size aircraft is more often than not without merit. A painting, photo or sculpture of a full size aircraft does not usually violate anyone's intellectual property rights. The aspect of for profit sales of a model does have an impact, but in this case only if the model is held out as a duplicate of the full size aircraft. The issue of reference, such as R3 on a model intended to indicate that it is a representation of a full scale R3, is in many cases a gray area and has not been fully litigated to date. In order to succeed in placing liability on someone, you need to prove that the holder of an intellectual property right had that right violated and to truly succeed they need to show they were damaged. That means they need to prove that the production of the model damaged them financially or otherwise. If not, you have a rather weak tort case.
Mike

KJKimball 12-26-2005 08:10 AM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
John,

If an item is taken without permission, that is stealing, right? In the case of the R3, it is clearly a concept from the mind of Mirco. No question on that. Mirco has claim to the concept and has a copyright symbol on each and every drawing he creates. His english skills are basic at best. He has few words to use in english to express what has happened with the R3, STO or Airworld. He found out about the model on the airworld site and became very upset. When reading the R3 info on the site, it is not possible to know that STO is a separate organization from Airworld. It is clear by the GRP statement, Airworld and STO worked together on the model creation. Again, Mirco is not claiming to have designed any structure with respect to the flying R3 model by Airworld. He simply has claim to the concept, conceptual design rights.

To place the statement you wrote "designed by Mirco" anywhere is Not correct. He did not design the model.

Here is the entire text from the German site translated to English:

"The Gee Bees was end of the 20's to center of the 30's, during the so-called golden years of the air Race, the most successful running airplanes. Designed around the enormous Pratt & Whitney they were compromiseless appropriate radial engine for speed.

The Gee Bee R3 is an advancement of the types R1 and R2. By the longer trunk it should clearly better flight characteristics have and to land be easier. Unfortunately the R3 did not come any longer beyond the construction phase. The age that air running and the associated high victory premiums was by and the R3 was not any longer built.

Horst Streicher, owners of the company STO, the documents of these Gee Bee fell into the hands and for him were certain: Those must give it as model! Designed by STO in CAD with CNC milled Urmodellen and/or forms and our know-how in GRP sandwich structure, we aroused a failed highlight of aviation history in teamwork to the life. The Gee Bee, equipped with our MOKI radial engine, is the attraction of each Flugshow!"

I wrote to Airworld about the R3 before I knew Mirco was unhappy. I told them who I was, what airplanes I have built, what I know about the Gee Bee airplanes and the Granvilles and suggested they rephrase the statement on their website to be more accurate. No response.

To place a statement of "Our model is designed by Horst Streicher, owner of the company STO" on your site is OK.

Not true part..."Horst saw the plans for the Type R3" as no full size plans exist and I know this because I have not created them yet. Only Mirco's copyrighted art drawing exists still today.

So, the above would be factual if it were phrased this way both on your site and in Germany:

Our model is designed by Horst Streicher, owner of the company STO. Horst based his model design on the coyrighted Gee Bee R3 conceptual art by Mirco Pecorari and decided to create a model of the ultimate Air Racer that never was. Powered by our 215 ccm, 5 Cylinder radial engine, the gorgeous Gee Bee R3 is an absolute show stopper. Click on the video link above to see and hear this incredible aircraft in flight.

This issue is getting caught up on symantics. Mirco created the R3 and should get credit fo that. He designed the R3 as he is a designer in the artistic view of that word. Horst did the design engineering of the model of the R3 based on Mirco's artwork. The R3 design belongs to Mirco. The design of the model R3 based on Mirco's design belonged to Horst and is now owned by Airworld.

Happy Holidays,

Kevin

CUB1 12-26-2005 04:40 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
1 Attachment(s)
John,
I`m glad to see you have started to import these planes on this side of the pond. I`m going to get back to the Threads original subject.
Airworld is now available in the US!!!!
My P-51 has been flying for about 3 years now, and it is one of the best flying Warbirds I have ever flown. Walker Sachs 3.2 with a Mejzlik 20x11 prop, All up weight 25# with no lead needed for balance.

CUB1 12-26-2005 04:42 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
1 Attachment(s)
More Pics

CUB1 12-26-2005 04:50 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
1 Attachment(s)
Couple more pics.....haven`t you noticed yet,
"I LIKE THIS PLANE"

mcpecos 04-21-2006 11:03 AM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
Hi Mr. Christensen,

My name is Mirco Pecorari, I'm Italian aircraft designer.
Just few words to say I'm the only designer of the Gee Bee R3.
I have the sketch, the files, the CAD draws with a date. I have very much witness who saw the draws one year before
airworld present the airplane model.
I use to write as n-number on my concept design N131266 becouse I born 13 december 1966.
Airwolrd was so (I don't know the exact word in english) to copy the sticker of the reg number too.
I posted this concept on some forum of air racing before official presentation of the model.
Anyway...when I wrote to german guys they don't answer me about the question "where you found the draws?"
I think he found the draws in the old barn in Springfield...... :-)

Contact me and I will demonstrate I'm the real designer of this aircraft.
Kevin Kimball of Jim Kimball Enterprise is the only who I gave the permission to use the original design for the
real scale airplane and Donuts Models the only I gave the permission to use the design for models.

I think is not a good advertise for airworld this "story" in the r/c field and meeting the people know it.

Sorry for my terrible english.

Mirco Pecorari.

www.aircraftstudiodesign.com

MANFRED 04-22-2006 10:16 AM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
Like any of you guys are going to cough up the bucks for this ship anyway. Get a life, who gives a rat's crusty hole if it's scale or not!!! It is one awesome looking ship.

kochj 03-23-2009 12:00 AM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 


I would have liked to see a R3 build .... I saw one with a a 400CC moki radial in it...
How could this plane handle that weight?? IT seems to fly exceptionally well for a 20lb motor in the front!!

PacificNWSkyPilot 11-08-2009 08:25 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
I've read through this thread and everybody has simply dismissed the Granvilles altogether here. Gee Bee, the aircraft name GEE BEE came into being and was ONLY used by the Granville brothers, nobody else, that makes it a trademark.<div></div><div>Why hasn't anybody asked whether the Granvilles were asked for permission to use the name? </div><div></div><div>If they had, I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it. I'll bet if I picked up the phone right now and called Robert Granville (Robert's son), he would tell me that nobody ever called him and asked for any permissions. </div><div></div><div>Do the Granville's still protect the name GeeBee? Last thing I knew they did, that was a couple of years back. </div><div></div><div>So, after you folks get done fighting over who came first, I'll be here to remind you, the Granvilles came first and the name Gee Bee was first used by them and this is known the world over. I'm pretty certain that would make their trademark name eminently protectable even under international law.</div><div></div><div>That being said, this is perhaps the prettiest, sleekest plane design I've ever seen. </div><div></div><div>Mirco, it would be a fitting design should you get permission to use the name as a tribute to the original Gee Bee racers. They obviously had much to do with the inspiration for the design. Your design touches are genius.

They need to make one for a 30CC gas engine.</div><div></div><div>Jimbo</div>

PacificNWSkyPilot 11-08-2009 08:41 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 


ORIGINAL: mselby

The issue of reference, such as R3 on a model intended to indicate that it is a representation of a full scale R3, is in many cases a gray area and has not been fully litigated to date. In order to succeed in placing liability on someone, you need to prove that the holder of an intellectual property right had that right violated and to truly succeed they need to show they were damaged. That means they need to prove that the production of the model damaged them financially or otherwise. If not, you have a rather weak tort case.
Mike

The Granville's don't have a weak case. They OWN the name Gee Bee, it is a trademark, it is THEIR trademark and it has never been anybody else's trademark, and it is internationally known and has been for 80 years. Wing design, full scale, none of that matters a bit. It's Trademark infringement, blatant infringement I might add.

These folks would do well to to ask Robert Granville (Robert's son) and his family for permission. How could it NOT damage them financially if somebody is using the name Gee Bee to sell a plane?

As for who designed this R3 first, that's between those folks.

And it is an incredible design and pure genius. But most obviously, it was Gee Bee-inspired.

That's all I've got say about that.

Any arguments should be made in a courthouse by the parties, not by a bunch of hooligans like US....

Jimbo
<br type="_moz" />

Steve Westphal 12-15-2012 06:15 PM

RE: Airworld is now available in the US
 
I wonder where a guy could get a set of plans for this to scale down for 1/2 a racing. What a beautiful aircraft.


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