Spad XIII
 

Heay to all. I just got a Fokker D7 kit from Hanger Hobby, and its a winter project, and would like to get a matching size Spad XIII, say about the same size, looking for a set of plans or a kit. Any suggestions.

RE: Spad XIII
 

busa is comming out with a spad sometime around the toledo show it's 1/4 scale

RE: Spad XIII
 

I wonder if they are going to use their usual fat airfoil. This looks OK on a DVII or DrI but would look a little silly on a Spad with its razor-thin wings.

RE: Spad XIII
 

I think we can fix that!
Great news on one coming out! I've been looking for one,it's my favorite WWI bird.

RE: Spad XIII
 

How? To come up with something vaguely scale we'd have to cut down each of the ribs to half its profile (at least) and probably change the spar height. For that much work you might as well cut a whole new set of ribs. The fat, flat-bottomed ailfoil on the BUSA kits is one of the things that really turns me off.

And of course the Spad had like TWICE as many ribs as most other aircraft so that's going to be a LOT of cutting! But here's hoping! [sm=72_72.gif]

RE: Spad XIII
 

Not to mention the very kewl but tricky strut and wire attachments of the Spad.. It's just as easy to build and cover an undercambered air foil as it is a flat one IMHO.

RE: Spad XIII
 

The flat-bottomed airfoil is probably a bit more fool-proof. The nice thing about BUSA models is that you can almost pour the kit out onto the building board, throw in a couple bottles of CA and you're done.

But then it seems to me that an awful lot of people end up spending time doing a serious kit-bash to try to bring these more into line with scale. Sort of like the folks who take a perverse pride in converting a Guillow's kit to RC! :D

RE: Spad XIII
 

Nothing like a good challenge to a scale nut! I guess you could build from scratch IF you could find a decent set of plans. I'm sending for a set from the Smithsonian of Smith IV. I've seen it many times and the neat thing about that aircraft is Roy Brooks (the original pilot) used to come sit by it in a lawnchair at the museum before he passed away at the age of 96.

RE: Spad XIII
 

But be honest. Wouldn't you really rather start off with a well-designed kit that is ALREADY mostly scale? I only used about 20% of my BUSA eindecker kit and maybe about 75% of the Flair Legionaire kit. So far I've used about 90% of the Snipe's kit.

Of course I do have a Gullow's P-38 Lightning kit sitting right here in my office. Maybe I could blow the plans up to 1/4 scale and replace the rubber band engines with twin RCV-120s. Oh, and replace the tissue with all metal panels.... Some challenges are best left alone. :D

RE: Spad XIII
 

BTW, speaking of amazingly scale, scratch-build Spad XII's check out this amazing thread by Donnie (aka Bigglefliesundone):

http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/...pad&PN=0&TPN=1

RE: Spad XIII
 

Guess I can't help it...my pleasure is in detail, even if it is covered when finished the building and research process is where I get my greatest enjoyment. I would almost rather build than fly, besides....I'm retired. :D

RE: Spad XIII
 

I tried that link but it won't open?

Never mind...got it.

RE: Spad XIII
 

I enjoy flying -- but the number of days of the year (and hours of the day) I can build far outnumber flying days (and hours)!

I also acknowledge the joys of kit-bashing -- that twisted glee of NOT following the instructions, of NOT doing things the way I'm supposed to. I've got one of the Flair Puppeteers sitting on the shelf. I knew almost before I opened the box that I wouldn't be building it "as is." In fact, I'd already decided that the fuselage as is looks more like the 1 1/2 Strutter than a Pup so I blew up technical drawings of the Strutter to match the cowl size on the Flair kit. It's clear that I'll need to be scratch building my own elevator and rudder. And I'll have to add a couple more bays to the wings. And I'll have to alter the shape of the fuse in several important ways. And move the UC a bit. And I won't be using any of the hardware provided. And the cowls I make myself from locally available pots are better than the cheap, tinny Flair cowls. And....

I'm now starting to wonder what the point is of starting with the kit at all. I fear my kit-bashing days are numbered!

RE: Spad XIII
 

abu sounds like your about to enter the wonderful world of scratch building!

RE: Spad XIII
 

Sure looks like it. But I'm sure going to miss the thrill of opening up a box of balsa parts. Guess I'll have to get my thrills from a shipment of lumber instead! :D Maybe Chris can keep me going with prototypes for a while longer! ;)

RE: Spad XIII
 

We all need a break, once in a while. Sometimes when I get the urge to "hurry up and get it done" I take a break and build a kit. No frills, just build! Then, when the maddness passes, I can settle down and work on the "Real Deal". I always have a couple of kits standing by for these emergencies, Including that Guillows P-38. Think it would be great as electric R/C?:D
Steve

RE: Spad XIII
 

I can remember back when I was doing serious static scale models and taking an Aurora Sopwith Tripe and converting it to a Pup and when I was done saying to myself that it would have been easier to scratch build it. I feel that applies even more to these animals because they just don't sit on a shelf collecting dust they have to fly! I'm working on my second BUSA kit a Fokker D7 and there's no way I would try to convert it to a serouse scale project. Its gets too complicated redoing someone else's engineering. My first scale attempt will be a scratch build.

On the subject of BUSA doing SPAD. YIKES How many days will it take to assemble it at the field. Four sets over interplane struts! If I were to do a SPAD I think I would consider a scale that I could transport without taking apart.

RE: Spad XIII
 

That's what I keep telling myself. But it never seems to work out that way. I start off telling myself that "I'm just going to build it totally stock, be done with it, and go fly." Then I start making "minor" concessions to scale madness. Then I decide to rebuild the rudder to a more scale outline. Then...

RE: Spad XIII
 

The Snipe is also a two-bay fighter. Donnie did his Spad with the wings as already assembled and rigged box-kite like plug-ins. I'm hoping to be able to do something similar on my Snipe. All you really need is a frame to plug the wings into during transport so that at the field all you need to do is remove the frame plug in the wing sets and run a couple of rigging lines.

RE: Spad XIII
 

Abu,
That would be the way to go. A guy down in Oregon has a beautiful 1/4 scale Spad XIII. He said when he first finished it it took him two hours to assemble it at the field! he later, with practice, got that down to one hour. In the end he ended up buying a trailer so he wouldn't have to take it apart for transport anymore.

It will be interesting to see what kind of airfoil it has and the thickness of it. Someday I'll start my Halberstadt DV which(the full-size one) has perhaps an even thinner airfoil than the Spad and almost as many turnbuckles.

Another thing I am looking forward to seeing is how they treat the front end of the fuse with all of those louvers and bumps and the shutters. All that stuff is a lot of work but neccesary(IMHO) to capture the essence of the XIII.

J

RE: Spad XIII
 

leave the wings and wires alone on something like this if you have to take it apart for transport, make the fuse split behind the cockpit :D

RE: Spad XIII
 

This looks like as good a place as any to start a Spad XIII build along. If you guys want me to put it someplace else, speak up.

I have the RCM plans for the 1/5 scale Spad XIII (#1154), designed by Bob Rich and published in the October, 1993 issue.
Specs:
WS 63"
WA 1302"sq
Modified undercambered Spad airfoil.
OAL 48"
RTF weight nominal 9lbs
Nominal WL 16oz/foot sq.
Recommended engines .50-.75 2 stroke.

I got them a couple months back, took one look at them, and rolled them back up. Took em out again last night, and really studied them, and it's not near as complex as it looked the first time. Each wing strut section has a ball top and bottom which plugs into the corresponding socket located in the wings. The functional flying and landing wires can be used with quik links. (Not scale, but easy to rig at the field.)

Here's a couple of pix of the coloring I'm considering.

I'm planning on using an RCV120-SP four stroke, swinging a scaled sized 20x12 Zinger wood prop. The SP will fit completely inside the cowling, and I think I can hook the exhaust to the scale stacks the way the designer did on his.

It'll be awhile until the next post. I have to go cut out 121 wing ribs.

RE: Spad XIII
 

That sounds like a HUGE engine for a 63" 9lbs WWI biplane! I would imagine that even the RCV 90 would be more than enough.

BTW, the Dec. 2005 (Vol. 8, No.73) of Flying Scale Models has a Spad on the cover and a construction article on a 1/6 scale Spad XIII for electric (Peter Rake design). It's a good looking sport scale model.

The issue also includes a "history" article and two pages of color profiles. And of course the modeling tips and inspirations in ANY issue of FSM is worth the cover price alone.

RE: Spad XIII
 

I tossed the issue of Bob Rich's spad by mistake...meant to save it but found out too late. Bob was a nice guy, had breakfast with him and his wife Doris in Jackson Miss. during his cross country flight with the liberty bell, extremely nice couple and a great loss to our modeling community.


Bud

RE: Spad XIII
 

Geez.

I didn't know they had gone. What happened?



Regarding the 120, yeah, it's way more than I need, but I want the scale size prop.