Ikon N'west kits
 

I am wondering if anyone has paid for and received a kit from Ikon N'west lately. I paid for one two months ago and have received nothing, no phone calls returned or e-mails answered. Is he too busy or what?

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

I ordered the UPF Waco kit and received it in 6 weeks, twice what he promised me (about 2 months ago). I called once a week after the promised 3 weeks and finally got it. He has some kits of types not kitted very much, but I don't know if it's worth the hassle it takes to get one. This is what I know about Aaron (the owner of Ikon). He lives in Idaho, works in Washington State, and does some kind of maintenance and installation of railway crossings. His work hours are sort of on an "on demand" basis, I think. This is in addition to whatever he does with the model kits. He seems like a good enough sort when talking to him on the phone, and I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt for the first couple of weeks my order was late, but I think it's a poor way to increase your customer base by dragging out an order, not responding to calls, and taking your money without giving you something in return.

I have a cell# for him. I don't know how you've been trying to contact him. PM me and I'll give you what I have.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

I ordered 2 Waco kits from Ikon May 8 and I am still waiting. I ordered a Tri Pacer from him about 2 years ago and got it in 3 months. My impression is that no matter what he tells you it takes him 2 1/2-3 months to do a kit. I am convinced he sold one of my Waco kits to Mr. Hodges, as that is the only way he could have got one in 6 weeks, and he got his right around the time mine should have been ready. I have no idea if I will ever see my kits[:o]
Ikon makes some real unique kits, and they are well done kits. I'd planned to order a couple more in the future but after this I will spend my money elsewhere.
I'd cancel my order right now but the Canadian $ has gone up so much against the U.S. buck I'd loose 80+ dollars on the exchange.
He has a lot to learn about customer service. He need to communicate with his customers, he needs to be honest about wait times and delays. And above all he has to stop lying to his customers when they do get ahold of him

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Well I phoned Arron's cell # today. He is a very personable guy to talk to. He apologized profusely for the fact I have been waiting 5 months for 2 kits. He told me he is working 3 jobs and renovating a house right now and he is no longer taking orders because he does not have the time to fill them.
He said all the right things, my kits are ready to ship ( he told me the same thing 2 months ago[:o]). He promised my kits would be shipped fedex on Monday and that he would email me the tracking number. It sounds good so I guess we will wait and see. I really feel like this guy is holding me hostage. He has my money and is making no effort to send me what I ordered and there is pretty much nothing I can do about it.
Right now I trust the guys I buy from in the RCU Market Place than I do this kit manufacturer.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Well after 5 months of waiting I finally got my Waco kits! They are typical Ikon quality all nicely cut and the box is just jammed full of wood. I now believe my kits were done at the end of July as he said but why he didn't ship them is a mystery to me. He has some unique kits and I'd like to order a couple more but I think I will wait a couple years to see if he gets his business better orginized.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

This is a followup to my post in September. I still haven't received the kit I ordered and paid for last June 2007. No communication of any kind. I suppose i will just write it opff. Too bad, he seems to be a decent person but just got in over his head.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Write off, hell. call the BBB in Spokane, or the local TV action line. You sent him money, and not a small amount. He either owes you something for it, or a return of the money, plus interest for making you have to wait for nothing.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

I do hope he gets his act together, as I would like a Sperry Messenger!

FA[8D]

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Has anyone spoken to AAron Silk. I have been waiting for a Cowling since Jan 07 I have had no contact at all. Cell phone is full, E-mail will not go thru. 1/4 scale Tri-pacer

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

In the world of I'Kon N'West, consider yourself very fortunate if you have not received a kit from these people for their kits or something on the side of worthless. The instructions are non existent and the engineering is even poorer. I have been building planes for many years and I finally decided to throw it away because of the materials.

I bought and received a DeHavilland Beaver something like 5 years ago. I only recently began work on it. I had just completed a 1/6th scale Piper Cub. The Piper Cub had much more strength and durability in the fuselage than did the Beaver. I finally gave up and burned it! This does not help if you paid and didn 't get but consider that there may well be worse things than not getting. I found one! From what I can tell these people have simply picked up their marbles and went home! They are no longer at the address or phone number that they used to to have.

The Cub is one made by Great Planes.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

The old Ikon kits (from Emil Neeley) were pretty sad as well, but once built were great to fly. The weakness that you detected would have disappeared once the model was covered and finished. They were not intended for those who had only built a couple of planes before, but were real builders kits. I still have some, and look forward to building them. A lot of the parts are only good for templates though.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

The way I have described the old Emil Neely Ikon kits (I built the Monocoupe D145) is some line drawings and a bunch of indifferent wood. The Master Chief is right. Parts were basically good for templates. Then figuring out what to do to get it engineered and together.
As someone said above, count yourself lucky you never got it, even if you did pay for it!
Al

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

BuyAero.com sold Emil's designs which were the typical design kit from the late 70's which were pretty much what I call mass designed instead of truly engineered model designs. It was basically the same as everyone else who sold hand cut kits at the time. Yes, Ikon kits were all hand cut by a Native American who worked for Emil for years and years. When Emil fell victim to an illness which eventually took his life, this individual was the "the" source of what was cut, molded, and shipped.

Iris, Emil's wife continued the business for about a year after Emil's passing. Continued meaning she processed orders and provided the person cutting wood and packaging plastic, decal, laid up fiber glass per order (no standing inventory) and mailed package to the customers after each was "individually" cut. One person, cutting one part at a time...so you begin to visualize how back in the day it was accomplished...with Emil doing this and the Native American doing it at the same time. Often the ship date varied depending on material availability and season of the year.

I sold these because for the most part the subjects were not produced at their sizes elsewhere. These were quite popular with "all" the modelers who built from the mid 70's through the mid 80's and were now retired. Almost 99% of inquiries were retirees wanting to build "another" whatever.

Aaron Silk, a rail road safety engineer, bought the rights to and took possession of what little remained of Ikon N'west with an intention to convert all to CAD, then with a newly acquired laser cutter, produce redesigned models with all the benefits to current day modelers. This was partially achieved before Aaron himself fell victim to a virus which rendered him all but bed ridden. He suffered this for a year to a year and a half...and to my knowledge never fully recovered.

Aaron also restored of 1:1 aircraft. He traveled the country buying aircraft and trailered them home for restoration...I always assume for profit.

The last conversation I had with Aaron he was returning my call after I had called his mother asking about his health. I had not heard from Aaron at that point for a year... He called me from I believe Wichita where he had just picked up a 1:1 and was on his way back home. I listened to Aaron's good intentions and what was to occur next in returning Ikon N'west to the market place. Then I heard not another word after I attempted to call Aaron on his unlisted phone...over the next six months.

I gave up on trying to promote rebirth of Emil's designs but left the BuyAero.com product page active withj a banner in the header that explained the products were to my knowledge no longer available...period. I continue to get calls and email inquiries every month asking if this has changed. I guess people either don't see the banner or hope Aaron has started to produce kits.

The URL finally expired for http://www.ikonnwst.com/ so in all probability there has been a less than pleasant event bringing an end to the hopes and dreams of Aaron Silk. If you live near Aaron and aware of the final circumstances relative to the Ikon N'west there are a lot of people who would like to know...

(1) is Aaron alive?
(2) is Ikon N'west in reality history?

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Ed, that's all good to know regarding Ikon's history and Aaron's intentions. I talked with him several times when I was interested in the UPF-7 kit. Aaron sounded like a good guy, but he sure sounded overextended with his railroad job and the other things he was doing. From the customer's perspective, though, it's all beside the point; which is, he was making promises he could not possibly keep, taking money and not sending product.

I'm sure his intentions were initially honorable, and may still be so. I wish him no ill will, especially if he's fallen on bad health and hard times. I know he wanted to provide what we all wanted, and some of the planes Ikon modeled , like you said, aren't available from anyone else, in any scale. His first and biggest mistake was to say he could do it, all the time knowing he could not, but led the customer to believe otherwise. I'd have had no problem at all, if he'd just said, "I have Ikon on hold, and no kits are available right now".

Whether it's him or someone else that does it, I'd like to see Ikon resurrected, modernized, and producing again.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

I will not be returning to sell the Ikon designs, regardless.

After the bad name that has grown over the Ikon issue I turned in another direction...
Bill Effinger's Designs...Bill'd designs are 25% to 30% lighter and scale at 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, and 1/6th.
I launced the Bill Effinger Designs on Thanksgiving Day. So far I am pleased with the response to
this new addition. They cover a wide range and time frames from WWi through to the 60's.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

There's really no room for so-called "builders' kits" in today's RC marketplace. Serious builders are more and more building from plans or from "short kits" and the average builder wants a well designed kit that goes together in a no-hassles manner. Also calling a poorly designed and/or produced kit a "builders' kit" does a disservice to kits like the SR Batteries Eindecker, which is regularly hailed as an extremely enjoyable build. Or the high end Proctor, GTM, or MR models which provide a top quality building experience.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Heck, abu, even the term "kit" is getting diluted. More and more, new folks are referring to ARFs as "kits."

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

No room for Builders Kits? Have you completely lost it? Have a look at the different forums and threads, and you will find more of them than you would imagine.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Often, as in this thread, when I hear the term "builders' kit" this is just code meaning "poorly engineered and/or unnecessarily difficult." The Stafford models also seem to have this reputation. By this standard, we could just agree to call all the shoddy kits being offered by AZM "builders' kits." It's certainly true that one would have to be a master builder to make a worthwhile model from one of the AZM kits (as demonstrated by Don Coe with his AVRO), but we shouldn't think of them as "builders' kit." A builders' kit is to my mind something like a "pilot's pilot," that is, it would refer to a kit that people who love kits would love building. It might be a bit beyond the ability of most average modelers (perhaps like the MR kits), but it shouldn't be a shoddy kit which requires the skills of a master builder to set right.

From everything I've read here the Ikon N'west kits were just bad kits.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Maybe you should try one.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Maybe you should read the thread. NOBODY can get one.

Dave Olson

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Abu: I thoroughly enjoyed building my IKON kits. Sure, they made me use my brain cells, but what's wrong with that ??? In fact, that's part of what I enjoyed.

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

It is not my intention to fuel some level of "arguement" about Emil Neely's design of the original Ikon N'west kits. This thread finds itself bridging the subject of building...period.

What was, isn't. That is true for many aspects of this hobby. Many people who are enjoying "flying" r/c would not be in the hobby if it were not for ARFs/ARCs and puzzle lock interlocking parts designs which require only reading paragraph after paragraph of directions and looking at the pretty obvious photos contained there in. That we all can agree.

However, there is a learning curve modelers who entered this hobby prior to the mid-80's have experienced which for the most part, the majority of modelers entering since have not had to "endure and survive" to progress to flying a what ever.

People do not enter the hobby because they envision themselves flying a trainer. They envision themselves flying a scale whatever. The more current the timeline...that includes helicopters and jets more than ever before due to electric power effeciencies having advanced and reduced the experience required to achieve what "were" considered high skill set modeling arenas.

Contrary to the too easy to say statement that building is dead...there are more quality kits, plans, and construction material/tools than have ever existed. What there is a shortage of is discreationary time of the current household. You simply have alternative family activities, $ commitments, and constraints on discreationary time due to the two worker household.

To achieve the afore mentioned desire to fly other than a "trainer", the modeler constantly seeks the express route that requires less time and that translates into more available time for all the above.

At a point downstream these people turn back and want to experinece flying something different and are typically not finding it as an ARF/ARC and turn to looking into what is required to build it...or buy and fly as I refer to it. This includes buying a kit or a plan built design from a professional builder. Recent changes in various contest protocols embrace the latter to improve their presentation value and of course its a numbers game.

However, into this is rising a % of modelers who are beginning to build from either plans or investigating building from scratch.

The two are not the same, no matter how loud plan builders scream they are the same... :)

So, after all these words it boils down to what to expect from old school designed kits, modern day CAD conversions of old school designs available as either short or full kits with laser or router CNC cut parts. That is where this discussion is and not about Emil, Iris, or Aaron.

Discussion groups provide what many consider a place they can flame, blast, defame, or critique the behavior of whomever and feel there is no consequence for their statements and line of thought they desire to cast upon people they aim their text and personal thoughts and expressions at.

If you have an opinion, that is fine as long as it is civil. I would hate to see this thread beat those associated with what Emil and Iris worked hard to create when there were no other designers willing to go out on a limb to design giant scale model "kits".

This is of course my personal opinion and not necessarily that of RCU...though reading the usage guidelines one could think otherwise... : )

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

Too bad about Ikon N'WST kits' evident demise! They are 'kits'. They saved time by being available. You have to do some cutting, sanding and fitting. I've built a couple and have had no problem with them. I own others but have yet to build them. Mr. Mulligan is next! I just purchased a G62 on RCUniv for it! They fly well and command a presence in the air like no ARF's will. I bought a Tripacer but never rec'd the cowl. Guess I'll make my own or look for an aftermarket part. The thing about these kits I like is you can build it as nice as you want and they are subjects from an era I prefer. Since they are unavailable, now, I'll just have to 'roll my own' (take more time)! I talked with Mr. Silk a while ago and he seemed a nice enough guy but ... He is interesting! He bought the mangled remains of a Pratt- Read sailplane used in the Sierra Wave Project. It is an historically significant airplane to say the least. If you read the book 'Exploring the Monster' you'll have a greater appreciation for sailplanes and their pilots! Good luck all of you Ikon builders!

RE: Ikon N'west kits
 

This really is the definition of a kit in a nutshell. As modelers we have the choice between scratch-building ("rolling our own"), building from plans, or building from kits. Some kits save more time (and aggravation) than others. Beyond that it's just a matter of builder preferences.