Rib stitch help
 

Hi All,
I am building a 87" Ziroli Stearman. I covered the airframe with Stits dacron and paints from F&M. I installed the pinking tape and used a T pin to dab on glue blobs for the rib stitching. I used Elmers yellow carpenters glue. The glue blobs became hollow as they dried. When I lightly sanded the wing they turned into volcanoes! Up close they looked bad!
They were unacceptable.
I am in the process of sanding them off. I made some samples using 560 canopy glue . This was better but still had a noticeable depression in the middle. If I did not have the pinking tape on I would use the thread method ,but it is too late for that now.
What glue can I use that will not sink in the middle, or how can I modify the glue I have. How about epoxy?
Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks
Jim

RE: Rib stitch help
 

I think the problem is the glue dabs go between the covering and the pinked tapes. On big planes the tapes are to prevent the rib cord from being damaged and to make more aerodynamic.

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Jim,

The rib stitching goes under the reinforcement and pinking tapes. Another way is to cut short pieces of thread, and adhere them to the covering with dope, and then add the reinforcement tapes, then the pinking tapes. You don't want these to bee all that visible, but just to appear that they are there.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

RE: Rib stitch help
 

I understand how it is done on real planes. If I could do it over I would use the method of thread under the pinking tape. The directions from F&M suggested putting the glue on top of the pinking tape with a T pin. That is why I went this route. I need to know how to make this method work. I can not put anything under the pinking tape at this point.

Jim

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Give TiteBond III a shot. I've had better luck with it, as it hasn't created the "volcanoes" for me.

While the T-pin method works well, I use a syringe available from Gary Sibert. http://www.pink-it.net/ They come with his pinking tapes, but are available for separate purchase.

RE: Rib stitch help
 

This is the best stuff i have found and i have tried a lot of different glues for rib stitching and rivet simulation. Very inexpensive and available at Dollar General. I used to use Elmer's white glue but this is better for what you are trying to do. I suggest you do a test to make sure it works for you and your covering and paint, etc.

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Bill...the reinforcing tape goes over each rib after the covering fabric, then the stitches and finally the pinked finishing tape. The reinforcing tape's job is to prevent the stitches from tearing through the fabric. Sorry to nitpick but I know you're going to tear apart my Waco when you see it. :) Mitch

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Why use glue at all? It's faster yes but often with mixed results. I make strips of iron fabric with thread on top. This is then applied to the wing via a touch up iron. It gives you the reinforcing tape and the rib stitches at the same time. They are simple to make using a jig. If you want info on making the jig just let me know.

RE: Rib stitch help
 

In Jim's case he already has the pinking tape applied. He would probably take an altogether different approach if that were not the issue.

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Tom,
Thanks for the advice. I purchased some Tightbond III and gave it a try. It works great! I tried 4 other glues before the tightbond and none of them worked as well. I also tried to find the Ross glue Oldscaleguy recomended but could not locate any at the dollar store. The tightbond works so well I will stick with it.

Jim

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Oldscaleguy,
You are correct. Thanks for pointing out that at this point I can not put anything UNDER the pinking tape! If I could do it over I would have used a different method.

Jim

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Thanks for clearing that pinking tape issue up! Duh me!! Well at least you learned a valuable lesson for the next build, :)

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Theres one other prossess that I used and it worked out quite well for my Sopwith Pup. I took a piece of lite ply and rapped it with thread then spaced the thread the distance I wanted the stitches to be. Then I took some of that adheasive tape for those cheep storm window you put inside your house. and ran strips of it accross the thread. then cut the thread and tape to the width of the stitching for the ribs. Then I would apply the tape with the stitches on it to the ribs. Then I would peal off the backing of the tape (wich is double sided tape) apply my pink tape over it then seal. Perfect stitches every time and evenly spaced on each rib. Don't have to wait for the glue to dry just cover and seal with dope, or paint , or what ever you choose.

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Guys,
I'm at a really tough spot here. I am almost ready to cover my GT DR1. (1\3 scale). I was going to do the rib stitching but find myself undecided. A scale judge pointed out to me that properly done, you can almost NOT even tell that there is rib stitching on a full scale aircraft, and that's standing right on top of the real thing. So I find myself asking... why go through the trouble of doing it if you should NOT be able to see it on a model? I say this after having done a 1\3 scale Pitts Special and did the stitching. You could tell it was there, but in reality, you should NOT have seen it. I admit, it looks kool, but every time I have seen rib stitching, it's WAY over done and WAY TOO BIG.(as was the case on my Pitts).

Thoughts?

-M51

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Thats true and with the way I do mine you can adjust the thickness on the stitching to what ever you want. Thats up to you but I'm no scale master by any means. Just an average builder with a goal for myself

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Thankfully someone has finally realized what most of us have been preaching for years. You are absolutely correct. A good craftsman, when covering a full scale, tries his best to make the rib stitches almost disappear, and not look like someone left some sausage links on the wing. Thank you very much!

Bill, Waco Brother #1

RE: Rib stitch help
 

I agree that they should not and do not look like sausage links on a well done full size but the fact remains that you can see them regardless of the craftsmanship. I guess on a scale subject such as what we do we should have them show to a point that we are personally satisfied. Just my 2 more cents worth. :)

RE: Rib stitch help
 

The problem also becomes if they aren't there then they are missed regardless of how subtle they are supposed to be. Dave, your Dr1 would have the zig-zag stitching wouldn't it? I believe that was the German way for WWI. More time consuming to do for sure.

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Hi Bob,
Yup, zig zag stitching. You see my dilema.

-Dave

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Dave just imagine how much FUN it's gonna be though! :)

RE: Rib stitch help
 

[sm=bananahead.gif]

Has anyone ever tried laying the rib tape down first and then with glue or something do the stitching on top of that and then paint?

-Dave

RE: Rib stitch help
 

Ya know Dave, Gary from Pink-It might, just might have a solution. A few years ago he showed me a method for painting on pinking tape using a vinyl mask and it looked pretty good. If he could make a zig-zag mask that might work too?

RE: Rib stitch help
 

With the Stits and Polytone process, putting the rib stitching on top of the pinked tape is the way to go. Any kind of stitch under the pinked tape and you get air voids on each side of the stitch which makes them look very unnatural. Cover the airframe, one coat of Poly Brush, put your tapes on, another coat of Poly Brush (preferably sprayed on this time), and then put on your rib stitches with the glue. They will tend to pucker but that's not necessarily a problem as they are going to be way too prominent anyway. After the glue dries, put on a couple of coats of the Poly Spray (Silver) and then sand the stitches down to something virtually flat, no more than the thickness of a piece of paper. Then respray with the Poly Spray and put your color coats on. The result is subtle but well defined because the paint conforms tightly over the stitches whereas the pinked tape does not. Its some work to do but if its good enough for a Top Gun competitor (and winner), its good enough for me.