Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Hi everyone, great foruim! I am new here and I'm very interested in building the Dumas Mr. Darby Kit, I have built numerous airplanes and helis, but this would be my first boat, how are the instructions and do you feel the kit is very difficult?

I am also looking at buying a completed kit, but it would be nice to build it myself.

Thanks for your input!

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

mbdemers,
Saying how 'difficult' a kit is to build is sort of difficult without knowing the builder's skills. Having said that, and remembering that I haven't built one, I don't think it would be out of reason for anyone who has built a number of models before. The 'trick' is to not get in too big of a hurry, and think a couple of steps ahead. There are ~no~ instructions that are absolutely and completely easy to read/follow! (That's not completely true, but true enough. It also shouldn't 'scare' you out of building the kit! No one ever follows a plan completely, it's your's to customize as you see fit, right?) If you have experience with planes and 'helis', I would think that it's certainly not going to be ~that~ difficult for you (ain't never seen no wooden helicopter! lol). As you can see from previous posts, transporting the thing will be more of a 'problem' than building it. Besides, the 'problems' are the 'fun' parts...
- 'Doc

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Hi,

I have built two of them, one for myself and one for another club member. The short answer to your question is "no, it is not difficult at all" The long answer may be a little more complicated. It does involve gluing up wood and sanding as well as soldering the handrailings. I personally do not care for that so I use premade brass stanchions which look FAR more scale and require considerably less work. If you don't like sanding and sealing wood for the structures you could always trace patterns using the original onto styrene (which is how I build boats) and glue it together like a big model kit. I also replace all the wood with styrene so I have complete sets of patterns for the boat. I can construct as many of the Mr. Darbys I wish, just by purchasing a hull and some sheet styrene. I also highly advise using the Harbor Models running hardware kit that you can purchase. If you add up the price of the Dumas motors, and the running hardware you come out about even in cash outlay. Where you are light years ahead of the game is by simplicity, installation ease and brute pulling power. The Harbor Models setup uses Pittman 3700 motors which are far more powerful and don't need to be geared down, unlike the Dumas motors. Also, in the Harbor Models setup you have resin cast rudders, instead of the ones you must build from plywood and metal rod. Again, much simpler. Also, the Harbor Models kit uses steel coupler u-joints, similar to the cardan style (like a U-joint in a car) much stronger and quieter than the nylon and brass dogbones Dumas uses. In addition, the HM kit includes the "steering solution" and a 1/4 scale servo. The steering solution will allow the rudders to go hard over which will turn the boat on its own axis. One last thing, the HM kit also gives you resin output shaft supports and Prop SHop screws. It really is a nice setup. The boat I built with the HM kit is extremly powerful and draws much less amperage which in turns means you can have it in the water longer. I easily run this boat 3 hours before I even think about taking it out of the water. My first Mr. Darby I built I did not know about Harbor Models and used Dumas hardware. It works ok but you hear that annoying whining from the compound gear reducers. Also, you have to be pretty close to dead on with alignment between motor, gearbox and output shaft. With HM setup the u-joint does away with the gears and allows a little more misalignment.

All in all the Mr. Darby is an awesome boat and properly setup will pull an oak tree right out of its roots. I say go for it! Just take your time building it and you will have a boat you can be very proud of!

Hope this helps
Pete

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Hi you folks that have built Mr Darby - I have a question;
What treatment, paint, sealer, etc., do you use to get the wooden parts as waterproof as possible? I have previously built in fiberglass, and on Mr Darby I intend to add wooden parts, even below waterline. Any suggestions on how to best seal the wood?
Thanks, Paul

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Hi,

On the Darby the only parts you have to contend with below the waterline is the skeg and the rudders. I simply build the structure using CA then use sanding sealer bought at any hardware or building supply dealer. Put on a coat, sand it down slightly, put on a coat, sand it down slightly etc. An alternative measure would be to build the structure as normally and then use Epoxy thinned out with rubbing alcohol. When the epoxy dries you can sand it down. After each method you would simply prime and paint it as usual. As for the above water structures, cabin, crane etc, I would simply build the structure and prime and paint it. Under normal circumstances it would (or shouldn't anyway!!!) get wet. An alternative to that is to do what I described in the previous post about using styrene. For me, that is the easiest and gives the best results. You wouldn't have to worry about filling in the grain as plastic has none, unlike wood. Any way you go just take your time and you will end up with a ship you can be very proud of.

Hope that helps,
Pete

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Hi Pete,
thanks for info. What is CA?
I am considering modifying Mr Darby to make an AT/B combo - so I need to put some rubbing-strake/bump-strip round the waterline, and reshape the nose. I would prefer using wood as it is all curves and easier to work in wood than PVC, etc., After sanding sealer, I have found Krylon spray is quite durable - do you know anything better? How does the epoxy/alcohol mix set up - does it lengthen the curing time, or just make it thinner. Do you have enough time to paint it on, or does it mean there's a lot of sanding needed to shape it?
thanks,
Paul

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Paul,

Wow!!! You sure have an ambitious project! CA is the common name for super glue, I think it is spelled cyoacrylate (?) The thick stuff would probably work best for what you are going to use it for. It has more of a gap filling formula and sets up a little slower, allowing that extra time for you to adjust everything to get it just right.

Thinning out and brushing epoxy on is just another method of sealing wooden structures on a boat. A side benefit is that it will add extra strenght to what ever you are building. To properly thin epoxy out you would mix in the denatured alcohol to get the mix approximatly the consistancy of milk. I don't know if there is any scientific method or not but that is what I get it to. It will dry as normal, if you use the finishing epoxy expect it to set up after about 20 minutes or so. Of course the faster setting epoxy will set up quicker than that but you want it to set up rather slow, allowing you to work it in. Just buy yourself a cheap old paint cup and a couple of cheap brushes from the hardware store and you are in business! FYI: Just remember that the denatured alchohol does produce a flammable vapor so please be careful.

I would love to see some pictures of your work when you get around to it!

Best regards,
Pete

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Thank you Pete,
I must admit I never thought of thinning down epoxy. Must give it a try. I have used fiber glass resin, no matting, but it is very brittle unless a filler, like talc, is added.
Yes, it is quite ambitious. I'm still working out the logistics of the barge - it needs to be about 12 foot long and 2 foot beam. Opposite problem to Mr Darby - it has to be as light as possible, otherwise I'll never get it up onto the roof rack!! Oh well, I've got all winter to work it out. Will post pictures once I make progress beyond the planning stage.
Regards, Paul

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Paul,
You might take a look at "TowBoat Joe's" web site (sorry, no URL handy), does lots of barges for his boats. Probably nothing specific for your purposes, but should give you some general ideas...
- 'Doc

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

;) Thinking of the difficulty of the Mister Darby one thing comes to mind. The directions! Like Dumas style and like their other kits these directions are simple typed guide lines on how to put the kit together. They state that they are not a "blow by blow, glue drop by glue drop directions". But they are in dire need of a revision and would help modelers of lesser skills to complete the kit. I'm not saying you can't use they, they just are less helpful than they could be. For the Dumas kit USS CROCKETT, I redid the directions and posted a review on my web site. I contacted Dumas and they where helpful in redoing these directions. You can find my web site at:
http://www.rktman.com/rlh/index.html
I am now working on a review of the Mister Darby kit. This new part of my web site will be open soon and will detail the steps I took on my kit. Plus I will also detail the extra items I added (plus items I got from Harbor Models). The Mister Darby is no longer in service and has been sold.
Towboat Joe can be found at this link:
http://oldriverbillzumwalt.members.k...t/projects.htm

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Hi rktman56,
you are so right about the "directions" for Mr Darby. Mine just arrived, and there are 3 sheets of drawings, nothing else!!! A picture may be worth a thousand words, but a few words would certainly have helped. Good to hear you are working on a review, hope you add lots of directions, hints, etc. so that we can get it right the first time. Yes, maybe that was Dumas plan.. let us screw up with the first one and then have to buy another to get it right?? Aligning the prop shafts and rudders looks like one of the most tricky parts, especially with the Kort nozzle and quad rudders from harbor models. I know thats not part of the Dumas package, but any insight would be welcomed. The twin Pittman motors look like over-kill, also any comments on belt-type reduction gear to lower the revs without adding too much noise?
will watch your website with interest,
regards, Paul

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Paul,
I've found that reduction gear noise is relative. If things are aligned correctly there will be some noise, if not aligned correctly, lots of noise. Noise, to some arbitrary point, makes the boat sound more realistic (to some folks, at least), and unless it's really excessive, won't be heard from any great distance (that comming from an ol'fart who'z half deaf so take with a dose of salt).
The motors being overkill? Just depends on if you plan to tow/push anything. If you do, then they are not overkill, never have enough power. The 'trick' is training your self to keep your 'foot' off the gas! LOL (I do fair at that, but can't say it isn't fun to chase the ducks!)
The 'belt' reduction drives should be/are much quieter than the metal gear ones. I wish I could find them at a reasonable price (shipping etc. Only source I've been able to find isn't in this country, rats!). There again, no actual hands on experience so take with that 'salt' mentioned earlier.
I've only found/built one model for which the instructions were 'good'. The rest range from 'bad' to "Wonder why they bothered putting this @#$% on paper?". I think part of the reasoning (?) is that you're supposed to take your time, understand what the particular procedure is all about before doing it, and that the 'fun' is in the building (then, there's the part about they just didn't take the time to do it [the instructions] right). For the multi-language instructions, think of it as a free lesson in learning a new language (just don't try to ask the where'a'bouts of a bathroom in that language when you finish the model - LOL). You can 'justify' almost anything if you can stretch far enough...
Good luck and have 'fun'...!
- 'Doc

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Hi Doc,
well, yes, half the fun is to undestand the proceedure before doing it, but to get a box full of very specific parts, and absolutely no help in guessing which order to proceed is more fun than I need. Assuming there are not enough materials to compensate for any errors makes it an expensive exercise in mind reading. Surely a brief list of sequential tasks isn't too much to ask - especially when much of the construction involves irreversable glueing, so that access or correction is later impossible.
BTW belt drive components seem readily available in USA. I just wonder if the MR Darby would benefit from lower revs. I am going to be pushing a 12 foot barge, so if I find I need a reduction gear after tthe deck is down, I guess I'll be having "fun" with a chain saw or equivalent!
regards,
Paul

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

:eek:Paul,

Sorry to hear your kit only has three sheets of drawings. My kit came with one page of pictures and some typed directions... very vague directions at that. With prior model building experience this kit should go together with only a few problems. Dumas needs to redue these. I have had many questions asked of me and what I am doing on my Darby sent to me on my website. I will have a large area with lots of information to help. As for the motors... you would rather have too much than not enough. The motors I got from Harbor Models (Pittman 3700) have lots of torque and will handle what ever you toss at them. I have tested my Darby in the tub and found that the props cavitate at halh throttle. Remeber that in this situation the tug has held stationary and is not moving through the water. But the one important point is that running the motors directly I still have enough power/torque to turn the props without overloading or over heating the motors. Plus I don’t have any noise from gears!!! :D Although I don't have the noise I do have higher RPM's at the prop.

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

...Something else about 'instructions'. Use everything available to you to gain information. As in, the picture on the box, advertising pictures, pictures of completed boats, anything you can find. Compare the pictures to the plans (if any) and the pieces that make up 'assemblies' (sometimes that takes an electron microscope and a crystal ball) to see what goes where and how.
Something else you'll notice is that no two boats are ever exactly alike. One reason for that is personal preference, but also, people interpret(sp) the instructions (or lack of them) in different ways with different results.
All of this doesn't justify crummy instructions, but it does help a little. Sometimes I get the feeling that 'they' think I was there when the original boat was built and the instructions are only to remind me of how that was...
- 'Doc

The motors included/recomended are only 'adequate', not the 'best' (whatever that means). If in doubt, over build [within reason]. No single kit can be made for all uses, so you have to customize for your use of it.
(I can make you a good deal on a chainsaw blade sharpener!)

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Doc,

What one person thinks are crummy instructions another may think are fine. I agree with you on looking at everything you can. EVERYTHING!!! I do feel that the most important part of the instructions are plans. Plans show so much detail and show how the boat is built. If you were building a ship from The Scale Shipyard for example, you would only have plans. But with a company like Dumas... well... they could do so much better. Why was it when I showed "step by step" how to build the USS Crockett they supported my idea and let me use what ever printed data I needed from them? I didn't make any money... that's not why the let me, they knew their instructions where in dire need of some help. The Mister Darby kit instructions are the same way. I welcome you to look at what I did for the USS Crockett and let me know what you think. [link=http://www.rktman.com/rlh/crockett/index.html]USS Crockett review[/link] I am still working on an are for the Mister Darby... lots of information. ;)

Roger

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Roger,

After checking out your web page and build of the USS Crockett (amazing work! I am actually using your web page as the primary instructions, with Dumas instructions as a reference) I purchased one , but I am having a tough time getting the first 4 balsa planks installed, do you have any photos of the bow showing the planking and how it curves around the front.

Thanks,

Mike

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Anyone,
I am looking for crewmen to fit on my Mister Darby Tugboat. I have searched high an low and have been unable to find them to scale. Can anyone help me? I am not capable of restructuring figurines to fit the sea-worthy way.

I have really enjoyed this message board about the Mister Darby Tugboat. I have had mine for about 4 years and have not really gotten into building much of it, yet. However, I do recommend the items from Harbor Models (www.harbormodels.com). Harbor Models will soon be coming out with the Mr. Darby Super Structure and other accessories in Last September of 2005. Their New Items web page will tell you all about it. If you can help me in any way, thanks!!

Racin_Rink

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Rink,

I use "O" scale model RR figures. Not exactly scale when you consider Mr. Darby is 1/38th (why did they do that???) and O scale is 1/48th. From any kind of a distance its hard to tell the difference. Another option may be to purchase figures from 1/35th scale tamiya kits and make them look they way you like. Sounds like a lot more work though.

As for the superstructure kit from Harbor Models, it looks nice but it is also about $350.00 Seems to me to be quite a bit of money for some styrene. I guess its all how you look at it.


Pete

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Pete,

Thank you for the input. I really appreciate it. I will look into both items.

Rink

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

I am on step 26 and would like to know when should I paint the hull should I paint it before I install the cabins or at the very end of the project? Also what types of paint did you guys paint your boats with I am thinking of using Marine gelcoat witch will give the boat a nice sleek finish and wont scratch easily. Thanks

Matt

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Matt,

I plan on using the Marine gelcoat also. I think it would be the best paint for the activity I plan to use the Mister Darby in. Rough waters of Lake Michigan is were my Maiden Voyage will be. Good Luck!

Rink

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

here are some thoughts on Mr Darby -
the scale 1:38 is crazy, but 1:32 is a regular scale for model trains. Loads of figures are available at that scale which make good crewmen, even though they are over-priced.
I am changing my Mr Darby to another boat entirely - either Volunteer or Lincoln sea ( owned by K-Sea) and they end up about same size as Mr Darby, using 1:32 scale!
I am going to use belt drive, despite good advice to the contrary, because I am going to be pushing a 12foot barge, and can get a 2:1 reduction gear.
Also that puts the Pittman motors further back - under the rear hatch, for easier access, and to help move center of gravity back.
I am filling the front section with 2 or 3 gallons of water, which otherwise makes the tug front heavy.
There is a great source of belts, pulleys, gears , etc on SDP-SI.com
Has anyone painted/sealed the inside of the hull?? The fiberglass looks like it could use some sealant, especially on mine where it will be filled with water.
Has anyone tried finish-coat epoxy on the hull ? I know some makes require high cure temperature which is a pain. I have a lot of wood added to the outside of Mr darby to change the hull shape, and I want to make sure it stays well sealed. Does Marine gelcoat come as a paint or a covering that needs paint on top?
Paul

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

I dont know i think gelcoat comes in a spray but could be wong because i have never used it before. Also how long did it take you guys to build your Mister Darbys because my one is a little over a year old and i am only on step 22?

Matt

RE: Mistyer Darby difficulty
 

Hi Matt,
I have gone ahead and coated the Mr Darby hull with finish epoxy - it paints on quite well and sands up nicely. It has taken all my spare time this year and so far I've only worked on the hull. But is modified extensively and I have abandoned using the Dumas drawings and the parts - except for the hull and decks. It seems easier to make things up you go along, rather than decode those instructions... My hull is now quite different from the original Mr Darby - I probably should give it a different name by now. I would attach some pictures if I knew how - I'll try a couple and see if they come out
Paul