Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Here's a good question for my scale boating friends...........about radios. I don't see much discussion about radios. Whenever I look at the catalogs for radios, all I ever see are radios designed for model airplanes, that we have to "make do" with. Yes, there are a very few designed for model boating ("surface radios"), but even those seem to be modified model airplane radios. I know there are one or two specifically designed for boats but they are "high end", kinda pricey. Does anyone manufacture radios for model boating in the $150-$200 range?

I wish I had the talent to design, build and market such an item. I DO think there's enough of a market to be profitable, even if only at a small scale.

What are the best model airplane radios for model boating???

AZCAPTAIN

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

i dont know what you mean designed just for boats?,a surface radio is meant for cars and boats and theres hundreds of em!!.as for aircraft radios its elegal to use them for boats as far as i know!!.the surface ones are on 27 mhz or 40 and planes are on 35 !!.

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm really talking about the layout of "bells and whistles" on the transmitters. In my opinion, the handles and switches don't reflect controls that are intuitive to model boating. They are also awkward to hold while in use. For example, maybe the switches, throttles, lights, horns, etc should be configured to look more like the control panel on a real boat and come with a detachable "stand" of some kind.

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

right im with you now mate soz!!

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Certain Futaba aircraft radios can be ordered on ground frequencies for a few dollars more. Other than that the Ace Nautical Commander and the Robbe f-14 are the only marine ready radios that I know of and neither of then come with a stand.

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

You can bring all the channels potentiometers out of the transmitter and mount them in a free standing ships wheel box that you stand on.

Any body who can unsolder and correctly resolder new longer wires for the remote mounted full size wheel and throttle could do it.

PTB__Battleship__Sub__ Landing craft, no sweat, just some plywood and paints. Wheel WITH STRONG mechanical stops.

Yes it can easily be done.[sm=thumbup.gif]

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

AZCAPTAIN,
I see you're aware of the only 'boat' radios around (at least to my knowledge). While having certain controls grouped together would be 'nice', I'm afraid my budget won't allow it either. Oh well, maybe one of the manufacturors will get the 'hint', but I don't think I'll hold my breath...
- 'Doc

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Currently it seems the only option is the Robbe(futaba) F14.

Here is a gallery with modded radios.
Most of them are the old ACE nautical commander.
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1849926/anchors_1849926/mpage_1/key_transmitters/anchor/tm.htm#1849926]Modified transmitters for boat functions.[/link]

ACE keeps promising to release a new version, but there has been no news from them in months.
http://www.acehobby.com/ace/ACE8701.htm

MCD makes an 8 and a 16 button add on that will work with most transmitters to add "bells and Whistles".
It breaks a single channel into 8-16 steps, and a decoder plugged into the reciever will turn on and off different functions such as lights, pumps, horns, cranes, anchors, etc.
http://www.modelcontrol.com/products.htm
You can see one of these(a gray bar and blue buttons) attached to the top of one of the ACE transmitters in the Modded transmitter thread.

Cliff Shaw, the tech rep at Galaxy Hobbies in Lynwood Washington does most of the modding and respec work on the radios.
http://www.galaxyhobby.com/

[8D]

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Thanks to all who responded to my boat radio question. Some really good thoughts and ideas came out!!! I DO wish some manufacturer would "take the hint" though, as someone mentioned. I'm not holding my breath either..

azcaptain;)

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Down near the bottom of my page:
[link=http://geocities.com/y2patmat/]Pat's Pages[/link]
is a "simple" hack of a 2 ch radio to make it more nautical... but yes, it takes lots of work. Easier to buy the F14.
Pat Matthews

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Hey, Pat........

Thank you and everyone else who responded to my radio question. Pat, your work is just about as good as it gets--engenious solutions. Thanks for the help.

azcaptain

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

There is a new computer radio on the market for boats. It has:

SYSTEM FEATURES

Digital DSM ™ Spread Spectrum Modulation
10-Model Memory
Four Digital Trims with auto memory
Ni-cd Tx pack and charger
Transmitter Low Battery Alarm
Trainer System compatible with Spektrum ™ and JR® Radio Systems
Adjustable Stick Length
Direct Trim Access Display
Two-Speed Scrolling

SYSTEM PROGRAMMING FEATURES

Dual Rates
Exponential Rates
Dual/Exponential Rates can be combined on one switch
Switch Assignable Functions
Travel Adjustment
Throttle Trim affects low position only
Digital battery voltage meter
Servo Reversing
Sub-Trim
Throttle Cut System
Data Reset Function
Model Naming Function
Throttle-Smart Failsafe System
3 Programmable Mixes

And lots more! It can even used for airplanes and helicopters if you want. And, there is never a frequency conflict because it is digital spread spectrum on 2.4 Ghz. And, it's only $199 dollars. As far as I am concerned, all "old fashioned" 75Mhz surface radios are obsolete. ;)

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SPM2460

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Kmot ,
75 Mhz (and 27 Mhz for that matter) are far from obsolete. It's certainly okay if you feel that way though. The 'Spektrum' radios have some very nice features but are not going to replace all the rest of the stuff around.
- 'Doc

PS - I have the Dx6 and like it. Sort of over-kill for most noats but...

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Doc, that is my opinion in regards to my own radio use.

You can use 75 till the cows come home. ;)

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Kmot,

Can the spektrum radios be used for air and land? I can't find anything that says you can't, Nor have i seen anything that cleary states yes. just curious
this would be great, get 1 radio for the boat and also use for my micro heli.

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

I read another thread on here stating that the spread spectrum 2 and 3 channel radios had problems on water, there's some physical property of water that makes the radio waves bounce off of the surface, self induced interference I guess you could say. They fixed it a little, but it's still really only suitable for cars. I'd recommend contacting Horizon on whether the DX6 is any better, I'd also call or e-mail to verify that the DX systems have problems on water.

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Any Spektrum radio can legally be used in surface or air vehicles/craft. There is a "suggestion" that the DX6 be used only in Park Flyer sized aircraft. Since there are no distinctions between surface and air freq's it's good to go in all cases.

I am switching all my multi-function scale boats over to the DX6. I am switching my Lynx 3D radio over to Spektrum DX3 modulation and then will be using that in my fast electric boats and cars/trucks. I am using 'normal' 72 Mhz for my large airplanes but I promise as soon as their is a DSM system 'approved' for the larger craft I am there!

I have 'suffered' frequency conflicts, glitching, and shoot-downs since 1975. I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad it is finally over! :D

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

What I hear from the Seattle Club, is that the 2.5ghz systems still run into glitching problems, but they have never run into a frequncy problem.

My impression is that you can still run across wiring and RF conditions in the model that will cause jitters. I am currently talking to the tech guy at Galaxy Hobbies, Lynnwood WA about getting a dual throttle mod on a new DX6. Seem that he can mod the sticks, but he won't be able to install three postions switches or auxilary reostats for turret rotations and such. Something about the unit being digital.

More on that once the details are worked out.

[Edit]
Just sneaking in an image of the modded Spektrum DX6.
It now has dual sticks, and a "ratcheting" bar was set up beneath the sticks to
give it a solid feeling to the stick movements.

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Any and all radios can be subject to interference. That sort of depends on the type of modulation used, relative strength of the system, and just how 'active' that particular portion of the bands are. All radio systems are also subject to 'local' interference, such as from motors, servos, other radios, and so on. All that can be controled tosome extent but never eliminated altogether. If a radio doesn't 'pick up' interference, it probably won't 'pick-up the desired signal either. That's not exactly a very good way of saying it, but, basically true.
Most interference can be reduced to a tolerable level. Sometimes that isn't the easiest thing in the world to do, but it's almost always possible. In most cases, interference isn't worth worrying about too much. That goes back to how 'active' a particular band is and other features of the radio, such as the 'searching for a clear channel' by the Spektrums. Is that alone worth the cost of the Spektrum? Not really, but it's also not something to sneeze at either. A totally interference free radio system isn't within the reach of the average R/C'er.
- 'Doc

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Just a few points from my own experience and research on other forums.

Mitchlandry and Kmot.
The twin receiver DX6 system is designed for aircraft but the manufacturer says only use for indoor or park flyers. People have tried on powerful aircraft with no real problems - under test conditions with a second system and backup pilot. I guess the manufacturer does not want to be treated like the pharmaceutical companies with a big court case following the first accident that happens.
The single frequency DX3 system might work in indoor aircraft but there is a real possibility of losing the link if you can't keep the RX aerial vertical.

E-sailboat86.
There is no problem of water itself, but as you said, it appears that surface reflections could cause problems.
I've seen it advised that the RX should be fitted with a coax cable extension, either to a wire or mobile phone type antenna. I've also seen it advised that the standard antenna needs to be mounted sticking up from the deck - with the low position on most boats I would think that would lead to most reflections.
On my one metre yacht I just let the wire dangle in a loose coil from the receiver which is stuck under the deck. Range is at least 200 metres, further than most race courses. However when at the furthest buoy I sometimes lose control. I'm not sure if it is my eyesight or the radio. When I'm out in front ;) it is OK, but when I'm struggling in a bunch I lose the boat head to wind [&o]. The same happened without the Spektrum!
The Spektrum web site is very honest and admits to a wire path problem which caused loss of range, and various development problems like response speed. These problems may have caused people to tinker with theories and "solutions" which are not essential. We will have to wait and see as with any new technology.

As for price, I'm really happy if I don't have to worry about other users or buy loads of alternative expensive crystals with the permanent risk of breaking the crystal or its mount at any change.

Happy sailing

Jerry

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

I asked Jay Turner to weigh in on this issue about Spektrum radios and glitching in model boats. I assume you all know who Jay Turner is?

Kmot: There is a lot of missunderstanding about the DSM radios out there. Note that the sources you quoted were all second-hand, with zero direct experience and lots of conjecture. I've been using DSM for months at club races without problems of any kind; another club member bought a system too and it cured the severe glitching problems he had. The frequency the DSM uses is far away from that of the sources of interference we have in our boats. I used the DSM for a number of 5-6 boat heats on the 1/6th mile oval, and purposely drove WAY wide on a couple turns - 50 to 60 feet wide - to see if i had trouble. Nope. It is possible to sabotage your DSM though.

Some gas guys tried them and sold them right away; they had just put the new receiver (with 8.5" antenna) into their deep radio boxes and hit the water. With very little antenna sticking up above their tuned pipe they did have some trouble. Gas guys who mounted the receiver so that the antenna stuck up above the pipe had no trouble. Don't cut the antenna, and have at least 4" sticking up through the deck.

While the transmitter uses less power than a typical FM radio does, the receiver appears to be more voltage sensitive. This is solved by using an adequate, charged receiver pack. I run 5-cell 300mAh NiMH packs in my oval boats, and have gone to a 1200mAh pack in my larger SAW boats. The latter is overkill, but the packs cost the same and I never have to worry about a weak pack.

I have no doubt that there are other ways to degrade DSM performance, and just because I have not had difficulties does not mean no one else will. There were some performance issues when the system was first introduced a year ago, but factory software updates have fixed them. So far, so good.


And another fellow who races in a Seattle club:

One race on mine and no problems at all. I have not seen any problems with the others in ERCU having any glitching either and there are at least 7 or 8 of us runnign the spektrum radios with two races under our belts plus lots of testing.



With the above comments from Jay and Jim I am confident I will be okay using Spektrum in my boats. YMMV. ;)

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

i read the thread and see all the aspects of each type of radio ie: lay out, ease of handling but my thing is the radios on todays market don't have enough controls if you are building in scale. what i mean is throttle, rudder, and two to four more channels for switching things like lights,horns or pump or whatever your heart desires. for the detail id like to pu tin a ship not even something like a 8 to 12 channel set up would suffice. search lights on and off,pan and tilt theres three channels right there and i would put on more than one search light and what about floods and work lights, sound generation smoke generation....so,,,,i designed a radio system. i have come up with a way to get the throttle,steering and thruster all proportional as normal but the left over fourth channel and then an additional 32 channels or more all proportional,drive servos or speed controls like for winches or cranes or full function search lights. the system design is modular using readily available parts and radio systems alread on the market..but with this system one guy can sit and control each individual deck light if he so wished to do so. or set it up to have back up systems for the primary drive battery or receiver batteries or whatever. the design is solid however i will admit that it would take some getting used to,,but what new radio is truely plug and play,,settings adjustments etc. now im curious how many people would be interested in a system giving up to 72 channels of out put,,and this system is designed to be inexpensive to build and easy to repiar if needed upgrade simply requires a trip to the l.h.s.,,,,let me know guys here or email or in a p.m.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thomas at [email protected]

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

rmdesignworks,
Would I like to have a 72 channel radio? Oh, I certainly wouldn't turn one down! The 'catch' to that is how simple would it be to operate? For me, simple is a requirement. If a mistake can be made, ~I~ can make it... and usually do. Two or three additional 'sticks' would be nice, especially if a couple of them are grouped together as throttles. No idea what I'd need them for, but certainly would be nice. If you designed and built them, you couldn't count on me being a customer. Not that I wouldn't 'want' one...
- 'Doc

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

I would like to just see a picture of the finished Tx with all the bells and whistles! :D

RE: Radios Designed For Model Boats
 

Are we talking 72 channels with full left or right throw?
Or something like 14 channels split into 72 functions?