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Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

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Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Old 10-23-2010, 12:39 PM
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Default Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general



Fellow tankers,

I am in the process of upgrading my Heng Long Pz IIIAusf H to include the HL Infrared battle system. Along with the IRbattle system I will also be upgrading to a recoiling cannon with LEDflash in the barrel. In addition I am making the necessary mods for the flash to happen before the cannon recoils.

So my question is why does the HL circuit have an LED for the IR battle system (typically installed in the mantlet), and a separate capability for an LED cannon flash? Are these potentially redundant features?

For reference I have attached a notional HLcircuit diagram and several pictures of the HLIRbattle circuit and theTank-Modlebau recoiling barrel with LEDflash. The Tank-Modelbau cannon has a 10,000 mcd LED. I am not sure what the intensity is of the LED with the HLIRbattle system

I appreciate any input. Thanks
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Old 10-23-2010, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

<span lang="en" id="result_box" class="long_text"><span title="">If I understand the question, the Heng Long uses two emitting diode, because
</span><span title="">1. </span><span title="">The flash is just a bright glow LEDs
</span><span title="">2. </span><span title="">Infrared LED is sending a code that is not just a bright flash LEDs, but the sequence of very short bursts.
</span><span title="">3. </span><span title="">Receiving infrared photodiode can not see the flash brightness LEDs shot, but sees a code package, emits infrared LED.
</span><span style="" title="">Precisely because of this there are two emitting diode
</span></span><span lang="en" class="long_text short_text" id="result_box"><span title="" style="background-color: rgb(230, 236, 249); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">And it is not redundant function</span></span><span lang="en" id="result_box" class="long_text"><span style="" title="">
</span></span>
Old 10-23-2010, 01:53 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Spacibo Cherni Kot,

What you have said seems to make sense. I'll see what additional info I can get before I make the final decision.

Best Regards
Frank
Old 10-23-2010, 03:53 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

<span lang="en" id="result_box" class="long_text"><span title="">The complexity of the translation.
</span><span title="">I can tell you all about LEDs. </span><span title="">Infrared and visible light LEDs. </span><span title="">But in Russian.
</span><span title="">Of the emission spectrum of infrared LEDs. </span><span style="" title="">And why infrared photodiode does not see the LED flash of visible light.
</span><span style="" title="">Of suppression of the thermal radiation of light bulbs or the sun in this IR Battle system/.
</span><span style="" title="">I can easily read it in English and understand, but that's the most in the English language to explain it - I can not.</span></span>
Old 10-23-2010, 04:40 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Next question then is the warning light/LEDin the mantlet of Heng Long airsoft tanks the same as the IR Battle System LEDs?

The reason I am asking is that I am converting my PZ IIIfrom airsoft to IRbattle system. Yesterday I removed the warning light/LED from the mantlet of my Pz III. The light/led was well glued in. I had to drill/file/chip out the LEDwhich resulted in a slightly oversized imperfect hole (see 1st attachment). So when I inserted the IRLED it protruded beyond the outer surface of the mantlet that will now probably result in an undesirable wide angle of illumination (see 2nd attachment).

An idea I have is to cut a short section of 1/4" styrene tube to glue to the inside of the mantlet so that the LEDcan be withdrawn into the hole. I possibly could then cut a short section of 3/16" tubing and insert it from the outside to reduce the hole diameter. This of course would need some bodywork/filling to make it look presentable.

Any comments recommendations on my situation? Thanks all.
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Old 10-23-2010, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Some guys mount the IR LED emitter in a tube on the barrel for greater accuracy I guess. They then fill the hole in the mantle.
Old 10-23-2010, 06:09 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

<span lang="en" id="result_box"><span title="">Yes. </span><span title="">Short tube to help you. </span><span title="">You can make it paper or plastic </span></span><span lang="en" id="result_box"><span title="" style="">for the collimator</span></span><span lang="en" id="result_box"><span title="">.
</span><span title="">You can also try to use the lens of the damaged laser pointer. </span><span title="" style="">But you need to look at a spot on the IR in some night vision device or DV camera with infrared range, like the Sony</span></span>
Old 10-23-2010, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

The tube needs too have the emitter 9 mm set back in. that is the optimal distance to recess the IR emitter. most guys are going this toute even with the tamiya tanks. it is actually more accurate to have it in the mantlet then in the little holder that clipped too the gun barrel. Onlty my Panther still has the clip. i intend to someday move the emitter too the gun mantlet on it too. Yes it works better with the tube. and be sure to paint the inside of the tube black. Do not leave it the styrene white as this can cause a reflection and diffuse the IR beam.
Old 10-23-2010, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Panther G,

Thanks for the input. So is the 9mm (~0.350 in) measured to the forward edge of the emitter? That's a pretty healthy recess. Also what tube diameter are we talking about? The emitter ODis probably about 3/16".
Regards
Frank
Old 10-23-2010, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

7/32nds is the normal size hole opening so the tube you need is relatively thin. You can get styrene tube thin enough to do it. Or you can buy it already made from ETO armor. Bob has them instock. they are designed with the proper set backs and opening size. Yes that is to the tip of the emitter 9mm is really not that much.
Old 10-23-2010, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

I use plastruct 1/4" styrene tube for my mounts. The PIII's are especially easy, as you can take the outer layer of the mantlet off first before you enlarge the airsoft LED hole - nice and tidy with no protruding tube or trimming to do. You might have to open up a hole behind the mantlet in the turret front, but thats all hidden when you are finished[8D]
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:03 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Ex-Pat,

Where were you when I needed you? After reading your post and taking a look at my hardware I can see exactly what your talking about. Unfortunately I drilled mine out from the front side, so I have a ragged hole to deal with (see the attachment above). In fact I just got mine apart.
Old 10-23-2010, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

yeah sorry, I was out all day doing tank club stuff and only just thought about replying [&o]
But hey, on the plus side the styrene tube is easy to trim with a sharp knife...! [&:]

If its any consolation I did learn the "hey stupid, take the Mantlet off before you drill the ugly hole!" lesson the hard way with a Tiger I [:@]
(still haven't gotten around to tidying that mess up...)
Old 10-23-2010, 10:27 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

That's OK, I dorked it up on Thursday. So to repair it would you just get some styrene tube for the outer mantlet (say 3/16") glue, fill, and sand to get the outer contour back, then install the 1/4" tube in the back section? I'm still pretty junior at this modding stuff.
Old 10-23-2010, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

I'd be inclined to push the 1/4" tube all the way thru and then trim and paint the lot as one piece - I don't know that anyone reduces the diameter of the emitter tube like you are proposing(?).
Generally club battlers favour a ~5mm hole for a wider field of fire. I have a lot of 3mm emitters in my fleet (in 3mm tubes) and they do tend to require more accuracy (aka sheer dumb luck!) at longer ranges.

Unfortunately I don't have a worked example to show what it could look like (well, I did do this on another Tiger I, but the Zimmeritt coat hides a multitude of sins ) so I can only wish you the best of luck.... [X(]
Old 10-24-2010, 08:47 AM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

I was proposing to use the smaller tube assuming that in your case you did not increase the size of the thru hole in the outer layer of the mantlet. When I measured the hole in the outer surface of my KV-1 it looked to be about 1/8" or slightly larger.

I could open the outer mantlet hole up to the 5mm (13/64") and probably get a pretty clean looking hole, without need to bring the 1/4" tube through to the outer surface.
Old 10-24-2010, 05:47 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Hence the 7/32nd diameter hole.
Old 10-24-2010, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Actually, the 7/32 hole is for the DT emitter tube you can buy. It makes a nice neat job of it but 1/4 in tube does the trick also.
Old 10-24-2010, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

They both have (more or less) the same inner diameter. The DT part is easy to hide, but not cheap - where as bag of 1/4" plastic tube from plastruct will last you a lifetime...
Some times you have a nice flat face (Tiger I, Pershing), or a removable outer skin (Panzer III) to the mantlet that is easy to trim a piece of styrene tube to, other times you need something thinner like the DT part to slot into an existing hole (Tamiya Sherman's in my case), or you need the 'eye brow' feature on the tube (Tiger I?)

As with everything else in the hobby, there is no right or wrong method - its just a case of cost vs end result.
Old 10-24-2010, 06:55 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

OK guys, please make it easier for me to understand.

I was thinking of using styrene to make the tube mantlet interface invisible by glueing, filling and sanding. I figured the styrene tube would be easiest to sand to make it conform to the existing mantle.

If I use the "DT" tube its made out of aluminum, but I'm assuming it would be more difficult (out of ignorance)to sand down to conform to the surface of the mantle. Can the joint between the mantle and the aluminum DT tube be joined, filled and sanded to make it "invisible"?

Thanks for your help
Old 10-24-2010, 07:07 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

The DT part can be sanded down, its just a more expensive solution - you have already chewed up the mantlet (sorry!) so you have a clean up job on your hands anyway...

In terms of functionality the DT part will not help - its designed to fit the gunners sight hole on Tamiya tank mantlets to avoid you having to drill a bigger hole - if you already have a big hole, its a waste of money IMHO.

HTH,
Mart
Old 10-24-2010, 07:11 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Ex Pat,

Sorry this is so excruciating for me to grasp, but on your installation did you bring the styrene tube all the way out flush with the outer surface of the mantlet, or did you stop it behind the outer section of the mantlet?
Old 10-24-2010, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

In the PIII I showed earlier I stopped it short and didn't drill the mantlet (it already had a 5mm LED sized hole in it)

On my Easy 8 and 105 I used the DT part as it was easier to enlarge the existing hole and press fit the part:



For my late Tiger I, I pushed it thru flush, and hid it behind a coat of zimmeritt:


With my Porsche KingTiger I had to botch a solution, but it didn't turn out so bad (don't have a picture of the finished article, so you have to take my word for that[&o]):


On my SU 152 the tube had to stick out due to space constraints:


It really depends on the tank and what you have space for, but as a rule for a HL I would stop the tube behind the mantlet and take advantage of the 5mm hole that the airsoft LED was in - the exception to this would be an angled face like on the Porsche KT or a PzIV F1 mantlet where it is heavily sloped - then I guess it up to your club rules as to where you should measure the IR LED depth from [&:], and how much you want the beam to bleed out of one side (friendy fire risk!)

HTH,
Mart


Old 10-24-2010, 07:42 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

Thanks Mart,

Ithink I've finally grasped the idea.

Frank
Old 10-24-2010, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Question regarding HL Infrared Battle System and infrared battle systems in general

I mount a socket in the mantlet, so the IR emitter can be easily removed when not in use. This also allows easy replacement.




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