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Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

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Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Old 04-28-2011, 11:51 AM
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WhiteWolf McBride
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Default Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Guys and Gals (do we have any lasses besides GirlTankette?)

I may need a bit of help here with my Leopard 2A6. Firstly, I need to make UPS ashamed of a few issues that have come to light, even before I've paid the Customs & Brokerage to take possession of the box. These items are:

Issue One: when the driver came to the door, he was carrying the box by its END, in such a manner that the tank is either sitting on its figurative 'derriere' or standing on its 'nose'. Makes me EVER so glad I had the shipper pull the barrel, but makes me worry about other damage. These babies weren't designed to be carried that way, however good the packing.

Issue Two: The way the driver was carrying it was via a HOLE poked in the end of the box... one clearly not there initially, and not designed for it (like openings in beer cases, etc) It was big enough to stick two fingers into!

Issue Three: When it arrived Wednesday, as scheduled, I very carefully told the driver to note specifically - " Hold for Pickup at Depot "; and it IS noted on the tracking data, thusly - " As requested by the customer, the receiver will pickup at a UPS facility within 5 business days " DESPITE this notation, driver showed up again Thursday morning, and luckily I'd not headed out just to collect it. Pitiful performance by dispatch, driver, etc.

Now, with all that said, I called Customer Service, telling them about these things. They may or may not have made notes (which I doubt) but said the local depot would call me in under an hour. It was about that long, But they said, to cover my butt, avoid getting burned for Customs & Brokerage, and then fighting to get it back on a damaged Kitty, I should to start a Damage Claim, AT THE PACKERS. Why there? Because if I paid for it, and then made a claim, and UPS found it was flawed packing, the store would need to pay out on the insurance, and refund the $ I'd paid. Not easily done. If they found it was the Carrier, aka UPS themselves, well, thats easier to get $ back from. Hence their 'File a claim at the packer' suggestion.

Now - I need to know any tips in dealing with these idiots. Clearly the poked-hole and poor carry options are UPS fault, not the store. Is there anything else you guys can tell me that will help me, as I really don't want to fall back on my " Last Resort " option - call it quits, Return to Sender as Damaged, and file for a PayPal refund.


Lemme know your thoughts pls?

And " I told ya so " isn't helpful - I will NOT be dealing with UPS or Fed Ex ever again short of a prepaid warranty RMA.

WhiteWolf
- scarfin' Tylenol for the headaches, and Rolaids for the gut...
Old 04-28-2011, 12:23 PM
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pattoncommander
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Both UPS and USPS are the pitts. I retired from USPS and from what I have seen and experienced as well as spoken with friends that work for UPS, there's not much difference. Anything marked Fragile or anything relating to careful handling is totally ignored, with the priority being getting everything on the next dispatch without regard to how. Having two tanks seriously damaged in the past 3 months thru USPS and parcels logged as delivered when none have shown up from UPS at my door, I will NEVER send anything of value thru the postal system ansd seriously distrust UPS. Only real safe way it to send them with a freind who happens to be going that way. With the salary of workers at both are drawing, one would figure the service would be better,. but there is a total lack of compitent supervision at both, hence the weak point. Mt Museum uses Fed-ex and we have a good record with them.
Old 04-28-2011, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Hi First thing is ,how badly damaged is it(Was it packed well)Do you have photos of how it was packed ,Because if you return it and file a claim via paypal you will have to pay for the return and customs you already have paid,then you will only get back your orginal costs(How much you bid and the postage).So you will be out of pocket for the return postage and customs.If you can repair it cheaper than these costs,I would repair it and claim the amount from UPS.It is easy to show how much the parts are by going to a Tamiya seller and getting a list of parts and prices.If it is a total right off (completely smashed)and it was packed in a good way.
   Contact the seller and tell them it was damaged when it arrived and you want to claim from UPS But UPS say it was the way it was packed,can he provide photos of the Tank before it was packed,also if he had photos of how it was packed(some ebayers do take photos of how they packed items incase of claims).This can be messy but none of it was your fault.I know you must be angry But try to be polite and not lose your temper if you are on the phone.Get as much evidence as you can, Photos are best Of the damage and how it was packed photos of the tank before it was packed.When you have all the evidence photos cost to repair it(dont forget your time as well If it will take you 3 hours to repair and paint put that down) ,put a claim in to UPS.
   All companys try to dodge paying blaiming someone else,to me its down to the guy who handles it most UPS,Dont let them off the hook I have seen how they throw packages into the back of a van.
   If they dont accept liability at once ,write down every time you call them how long on the phone who you talked to ,keep calling two or three times a week ask to speak to the supervisor then the manager then his boss then his boss keep going till they give in.   

    regards pete
Old 04-28-2011, 03:58 PM
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WhiteWolf McBride
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Hi First thing is, how badly damaged is it (Was it packed well) Do you have photos of how it was packed ,Because if you return it and file a claim via paypal you will have to pay for the return and customs you already have paid, then you will only get back your orginal costs (How much you bid and the postage). So you will be out of pocket for the return postage and customs. If you can repair it cheaper than these costs, I would repair it and claim the amount from UPS. It is easy to show how much the parts are by going to a Tamiya seller and getting a list of parts and prices. If it is a total right off (completely smashed)and it was packed in a good way.
Okay: I've not 'claimed' the parcel from UPS yet. The UPS Customer Service said to file the claim FIRST, and let them inspect it for 'damage'. Then if they can give me pics, I could assess the cost of repair. They said that was better that paying the Customs & Brokerage ($117 and change) up front, and then trying to reclaim it, especially if they say it was the packing company's fault. I will ASK if I can view it to give an assessment, and bring a battery pack for the Tx and tank to test the electronics. I'll be using 100 yen to the buck, as thats about what Jason's store on eBay is using, and I have a manual/sprue list to get yen-prices.

Contact the seller and tell them it was damaged when it arrived and you want to claim from UPS But UPS say it was the way it was packed, can he provide photos of the Tank before it was packed, also if he had photos of how it was packed (some ebayers do take photos of how they packed items incase of claims).This can be messy but none of it was your fault. I know you must be angry But try to be polite and not lose your temper if you are on the phone. Get as much evidence as you can, Photos are best Of the damage and how it was packed photos of the tank before it was packed. When you have all the evidence photos cost to repair it (dont forget your time as well If it will take you 3 hours to repair and paint put that down), put a claim in to UPS.
Done. Awaiting his confirmation if initiated claim though.

All companys try to dodge paying blaiming someone else, to me its down to the guy who handles it most UPS, Dont let them off the hook I have seen how they throw packages into the back of a van. If they dont accept liability at once, write down every time you call them how long on the phone who you talked to, keep calling two or three times a week ask to speak to the supervisor then the manager then his boss then his boss keep going till they give in.
I know I should have insisted on USPS (have MUCH better luck with their shipping value, even if Customs takes a bit longer to process 'em) but thats hindsight. Ever since my 'demolished Kubelwagen' insicent by US Customs, I've documented every parcel outgoing, and since then, nothing's been damaged, though one tank belly plate went AWOL, out of over 2 dozen (was insured) I'm sure if I'd not insisted on the barrel being pulled, it would be in much worse shape... (fingers crossed)

And yea, I have an ace up my sleeve: that Idjit nephew I drive for is a salesman by trade, and gets "best Salesman" awards every business quarter. If ANYONE can badger them into getting me my damages, its him. And he owes me... ~BigTime~.

Thanks for the replies, and if any have more ideas, lemme know.

WhiteWolf McBride
- who was looking forward to a Leo 2A6 test weekend, but now... *sigh* I'll be lucky to get it (if at all) for my b'day on the Ides of May *wince* (46 & counting...)
Old 04-28-2011, 05:23 PM
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no12skyline
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

I think that, despite how hard-done-by you feel, if its just minor plastic parts that have broken/fallen off, launching a claim against UPS is going to be more trouble than it is worth. A Tamiya Leopard is actually a pretty tough thing, considering how I drive my own tanks, and I would bet that it will all function properly even if all the detail parts fall out. You'll find a fair amount of videos on Youtube of people jumping their Tamiya Leopards like they see the real tank doing, so I think that's a testament to its hardiness. I'd say just collect the parcel, take photographs, open it right there, and take stock of what's broken or non-functioning, then decide where to go from there.
Old 04-28-2011, 06:15 PM
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Tanque
 
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

ORIGINAL: no12skyline

I think that, despite how hard-done-by you feel, if its just minor plastic parts that have broken/fallen off, launching a claim against UPS is going to be more trouble than it is worth. A Tamiya Leopard is actually a pretty tough thing, considering how I drive my own tanks, and I would bet that it will all function properly even if all the detail parts fall out. You'll find a fair amount of videos on Youtube of people jumping their Tamiya Leopards like they see the real tank doing, so I think that's a testament to its hardiness. I'd say just collect the parcel, take photographs, open it right there, and take stock of what's broken or non-functioning, then decide where to go from there.

Unfortunately I agree with no12skyline.

If you look at back posts you can read the one that recounted what I had to repair on a 1/10 JagdPanther I had sent from England a few years back via UPS. Best thing you can ever do with ANY carrier is to ensure the packing is capable of withstanding the fall from the second
story of a building. That's only a slight exaggeration.

I had to file photos of

[*]the unopened package, from all sides[*]the packing[*]the damage done, all damage done


I had to provide estimates of repair. Fill out several forms. Make 2+ dozen phone calls and refuse to pay my UPS account.

All of this took about 7 months before UPS finally took responsibility for the damage. In the end I came out very well
but it was an extremely aggravating ordeal.

You can huff and puff all you want but unless you are prepared for a slug fest, I was at the time but I doubt I would be today,
they will try to wear you down with their bureaucracy hoping you will just go away.

"Fair " doesn't come into play. All carriers are a business. They make money by taking money for services that are worth less
than the price you pay. they keep that balance by keeping their costs down. They keep their costs down by having employees
willing to accept the low wages they pay. You can make your own conclusions beyond that.

Having anything of value sent anywhere is a roll of the dice; sometimes you win sometimes you don't. Believe me I know just how
aggravating damage can be.

Been there done that.

Here's USPS' interpretation of what an S-gauge railway train bridge should look like:



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Old 04-28-2011, 10:09 PM
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WhiteWolf McBride
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Well...

As the receiver, the only say I had in the packing was my strong request to have the barrel pulled. He would't pack it himself, and paid a store to do it (apparently did not watch 'em do it, so cannot even say he thought they did it right) and then sent it UPS. That should have screamed " BAIL and RUN " to me. I sadly dinna listen.

Now he's balking at filing a claim, so I'm going to have to go down to the depot to collect it, and take the chance that I've paid for a 12.3 pound box of tracked plastic and electronics.

I'm not holding my breath on my chances of getting ANY compensation out of UPS... even for the poor condition of the box without opening it, and the incompetant handling of the delivery.

Bottom line... I've learned my lesson, and this won't happen again, no matter HOW good the deal sounds.
Old 04-29-2011, 12:37 AM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Ill be totally honest with you here, I think you should actually inspect the package and make sure its broken before all this talk of claims etc. IMO you seem to be over reacting and coming across as slightly whiney. IF there is a problem then by all means take steps, but you seem to be rather premature about this.
Old 04-29-2011, 01:48 AM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Thank you tomhugill for saying that because it's what I've been feeling for a few days now.

Btw to all, I'm the guy who sold WW my second hand Leo. And no this wasn't an Ebay transaction. I thought I was doing a fellow RC enthusiast a favor when I saw his "Want Ad" on this board a while back:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10347857/tm.htm

However, the last post here by WW I perceived to be something against me and as if the problems he's encountering there with his UPS Canada and Customs is like it's my fault or something. As if "had I not gone through with this" thing. I also feel like its talking behind my back, which I have no respect for.

I'm not going to mention all the things that made this a very unpleasent transaction. I did save all the e-mails for a transcript record that I can share with anyone who doubts me. He was not pressured at all to buy my Leo. I let him make an offer price to me. I didn't set the price. I only made the "deal" on the condition of his offer.

He understood exactly how I was going to the UPS Store to have them package it up by professional packagers and mailed out by them and not once did he object to it. And I work nights now, so no I wasn't about to wait there all day to when they did get to my Leo and watch them package it up to how he wants it to be packaged (and yes, he has a "preferred" way to have it packaged up inside the box).

I will say that that I won't even consider mailing anything out to Canada anytime soon.
Old 04-29-2011, 02:57 AM
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wright 971
 
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Hi ,If we are talking about the same Tank here ,Can I just say ,it is not the seller or buyer here who is at fault.
If the seller takes the item to UPS to have them pack the item and ship it .When it arrives at the Buyers and is damaged it is UPS who is at fault.Dontfight with each other butget together and fight the ones responsibleUPS.

regards pete
Old 04-29-2011, 04:14 AM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Just wait till you get the darn thing outta the box to judge the packaging/damage or anything else, anything else is massivly presumptuous!
Old 04-29-2011, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Exactly. What gets me is he keeps assuming the worse with the contents yet he hasn't even opened it up to know if that's the case!

He worried that he has no recourse if he does accept the package and open it up for inspection if I don't file a claim at the UPS Store before he does this to cover him. All on the presumption on how he doesn't like how UPS Canada or Customs handled the box by him saying the driver plaed the box on one end on the ground and that there seems to be a couple of makeshift finger holes on the side of the box that the driver or somebody there uses as a finger hole to carry the box. I told him that I seriously doubt that the UPS Store would use a box with a couple of little holes punched out on the sides as a packaging box and I can call the UPS Store when I get off work in the morning to verify that. Has anyone here every seen their local UPS Store sell boxes with two makeshift holes on one side of the box to pack things up?

If these are the case, then I told him that is an issue with UPS Canada and talk to the depot manager about how shoddy their particular service apparently is. But still all this doesn't mean the stuff inside is damaged. He needs to open it and check it to find out which, again, hasn't happened. Instead, it's been this "whining" as tomhugill mentioned that I keep hearing from him as if trying to make me feel guilty or something, which I don't appreciate. I also contacted UPS earlier tonight (before I saw and noticed this thread) and they told me the receiver can in fact, file a claim after he opens the package and discovers damage. He won't lose the ability to file a claim if he accepts the package and open it up for inspection like he thinks. And the package is insured and this procedure works with both US and Canadian UPS. With Canadian Customs, I don't know it works, but then that is something he has to figure out what he wants to do.

You know, he sent an e-mail out to me last night after I question him more about his concerns saying if I don't want to file a claim then fine, he'll accept the package and handle it from there. Good. Do that WW. Get the darn thing, open and inspect it and if everything is fine, great. If not, then I told you in the e-mail and mentioned it to everybody here what you can do. Hopefully that will be end of this chapter.
Old 04-29-2011, 08:09 AM
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Tanque
 
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?


I made one fundamental error in adding to this thread. I assumed the originator had already identified that there
was damage to the contents; I should know better than to assume, apologies to all. In my way of thinking why would
someone post such a topic here for no issue at all? Just the way the package was handled? the fact there were holes in the box? Those facts don't imply damage.

And for the instruction to place it in will call? That's annoying certainly but in most cases nothing to get one's panties in a twist over. It is better to have had the package require adult signature forcing it to be held( or returned) it that condition isn't met.

If I cried wolf every time a package looked wrong or was handled incorrectly I'd be calling every time I receive something.

Sheese Wolf.

Jerry
Old 04-29-2011, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

BLOODY COURIERS!

WW, here's hoping to no damage. If not, be sure to take lots of pics before and during the unwrapping of the parcel. I have not had to fight UPS for damage, only over broker charges levied a month after accepting the parcel but I did have to deal with FedEx. They were not as bad as the horror stories I've read on this thread, but be loaded for bear and you won't need it. If you don't take a ton of pics, then you'll kick yourself for needing them for proof. And if you have the pics, they will be far more willing to settle just because you could prove negligence.
Old 04-29-2011, 11:47 AM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

I recall a recent thread where an item shipped one day late and WW was advising the buyer to file claims and stop payments. It seems very high maintenance and almost like you are always expecting something, anything to go wrong. I don't mean to incite. Optically, it just seems that way to read the posts.
Things often go wrong in life and it's how you respond to that that defines who we are.
Take the pics, open the boxes, and see where you are. Maybe you are creating a ton of stress for no reason at all. Hopefully that is the case.

Perry
Old 04-29-2011, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Some nice RC drama. This thread+ my beer = entertainment.

And yes, not to join the band wagon but just open the package and see where your at. I hope for all the best. Objects in mirror might be 'better' than they appear.

Old 04-29-2011, 05:29 PM
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dgonzmd
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

I have been bying for years RC companies in US with no problem shipping via UPS. Perhaps proper packing would resolve the problem.
Old 04-29-2011, 07:52 PM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

I'm going to side with AnotherRCfan on this one. (as if we need to choose sides?)

WW, in this thread [link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10463754/tm.htm[/link], it's obvious that you were made aware of some very minor damage to the Leopard before the item was shipped. So,

Not quite sure what your 'long term goal' is with the direction of this thread, but I would advise you to seriously consider leaving AnotherRCFan out of it.
Old 04-30-2011, 02:07 AM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

My 2 cents: Open UPS box - Examine contents, If Parts can be glued back on then do so => enjoy model

My Related Story: Waiting for USPS mailman, substitute driver that day, stood near door because he may be going to other apartments not mine, I hear a "Bump! bump, bump bump......." against my door.     he THREW  my package against the door, thats how he knocked...  I open door, he looks back like a kid caught stealing candy as he descents the stairs

My Packaging Advice: Bubblewrap Bubblewrap Bubblewrap. No movement allowed inside box. Large enough box so most weight is at the bottom ( even a Neanderthal would pick it Rightside UP that way). Double tape all seams with clear plastic tape until package is almost air tight. No styrofoam bits, I hate that electrostatic &#)@! There should be nothing sticking out from the box, ie tape, labels, misaligned cardboard. Clear plastic tape over shipping address label. If shipping USPS use Priority mail when possible, the bins are smaller hence fewer packages will come in contact with yours. When shipping something very expensive, double box, ie, bubblewrap all the above and then put into another box. I've had good results so far.
Old 05-06-2011, 09:58 PM
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Tanque
 
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?


So what damage was actually done to the contents of the package??

Jerry
Old 05-08-2011, 06:13 AM
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Default RE: Ins & Outs of dealing with a UPS claim...?

Somehow, I don't think you're going to get an answer

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