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Battle System Question

Old 04-30-2014, 11:24 AM
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Tread-Head
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Hi Everyone,

I bought a used Tamyia tank and want to get a battle unit for it. This will be my first one.
I found someone who has a Tamiya system, but want $170 + shipping for it, compared to the $80 for an Impact system I can get.

So my question is it worth getting the Tamiya one over the Impact one? Are there any negative points about the Impact system?
Old 04-30-2014, 11:32 AM
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Panther F
 
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Get the Tamiya system. Not a knock on the IMPACT set but when I used it at Danville last year in my Sherman it lacked the range. Plus, you cannot interchange the apples (Tamiya and IMPACT) without modifying the plug.

Check around (I don't know what they go for now) and get some prices before you settle on this. Check with Karen at http://shop.aaftankmuseum.com/ also... they are good people.

Tamiya is the standard... I would stay with that brand.


JMHO





Jeff
Old 04-30-2014, 11:40 AM
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Tread-Head
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I would prefer the Tamiya system.

I've been looking for a month now and can't find any one in North America that isn't sold out. I found a few place across the ocean that have them and lowest I could find was for $170.

Does anyone when Tamiya will be shipping out more?
Old 04-30-2014, 02:43 PM
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Have you tried the AAF? Karen usually has very competetive prices on all her parts. I'm sure she is selling the battle unit for less than a buck 70.
Old 04-30-2014, 03:04 PM
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Tamiya hasn't put them out in a long time. AAF doesn't have them. Natasha said they were on backorder, but other items currently out like the bases will be back in soon, the TBU, no one knows.

I may have something available soon.
Old 04-30-2014, 05:14 PM
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YHR
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Immortal hobbies has a sensor for $30. It works, and until the Tamiya ones are back in stock what are you gonna do.,
Old 04-30-2014, 06:19 PM
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I prefer Tamiya, but as noted, they seem out.

The Impact ones work fine for me. I'm using about a dozen of them, for a few years now. The apple seems a bit more sensitive, but it's negligible.

The ones from Immortal look very home made.
Old 04-30-2014, 06:20 PM
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hes going to need a base and emitter also he can get them from AFF if there back in stock
Old 04-30-2014, 09:03 PM
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thecommander
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I have been waiting since last year for more Tamiya Battle Units. I talk to Karen & Tasha at least once a week. Not only does Tamiya not have a delivery date or shipping date....it seem that they have not been manufactured yet. The last time this happened it was a 6+ month drought. The only TBUs available are all in private hands. I have a few tucked away for myself and a few that I am selling for a buddy of mine who is getting married. I saw two sell on EBay last month for $200. WOW! http://www.ebay.com/itm/121296424732...84.m1436.l2649 But if it is the last thing you need to finish off your tank..... what are you going to do? I've seen them sell for up to $250 on other sites.

I have been selling partial units w/o the apple like a RC airplane "Flight pack" but for IR battle tanks. The Impact battle unit is a good substitute but be prepared to wait at least a month for the part. As Gregg mentioned they are NOT interchangeable with Tamiya battle units. Ever since the Malaysian airline went MIA international shipping has slowed to a crawl. The timing couldn't be worse with spring now here and all the tank events coming up. The recently released hand made apple does work. I got it from Carl in NY who makes them for Immortal. Carl does great work A+. It lacks fins and hence is very vulnerable to IR shots. It also lacks a base connecotor (it relies only the wire pins to attach). The black "base" is heat shrink tube and this results in a very loose apple. FYI... for those not very familiar with TBUs...when the apple is not secure it wobbles loose and if any connections are lost the IR emitter will no longer fire. It is a common occurence at Danville in a rough tank battle. That is why the Tamiya apple has that little wire latch...it locks in the apple firmly in place. Yet again the Tamiya quality comes shines thru. Even Impact lacks the safely latch. FYI Impact apples DO NOT fit Clark bases. You need a genuine Tamiya apple.

If you can wait or afford it, I strongly recommend you get the genuine Tamiya Battle Unit now. If you can't ...get the Impact but be prepared to wait 4 to 5 weeks. If you want an inexpensive substitute try Carl's. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-16-RC-Tank...item35d4b03236 It is not very robust and the top comes apart very easily, but the price is great. Be gentle and DO NOT ROLL THE TANK. It cannot take it and will break. Don't bring it to Danville or you will be dead in short order. Without any fins and 4 sensors it is IR sensitive compared to the TBU. The Impact can do the TFA mod, but Carls cannot. Each has a place in IR tanking.

PLEASE BEWARE of any retailer that says they have them. They just may be trying to rip you off. See my GEX Hobby AKA Tamiya-AU post. AVOID GEX!
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:28 PM
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YHR
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I sell a base unit that can be used with Tamiya's Battle unit. These are built to work with the DBC3 or Clark boards, a person would have to install the Tamiya 5 pin jst so it could be plugged into the MFU.

The units Immortal hobby sells and the ones Bob mentioned above do work fine, but I have suspected they don't have 45 degree defenses so are more easily lit up.

So this is something that needs confirmation as Bob's comments are contradictory to Curtis's with respect to the 45 degree defense of "Carl's battle unit.,



The HL unit below has been converted to work with the Tamiya system. I used to sell these but they are labor intensive and took up too much of my time to make. But with no Tamiya units on the horizon what are you gonna do. The cost to convert an HL apple is about $7.00. So for less then $20 you can build a unit that looks good, has fins and is good to about 25 meters. Slightly less then the Tamiya apple.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:48 PM
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In any larger battle, any variation in receiver/emitter will always come under some form of scrutiny, especially if those tanks enjoy any measure of success above the norm (skill notwithstanding). Tamiya remains the standard by which IR emission and reception performance is judged I think ausf found out how vulnerable his T34 was with its hull mounted quad-directional receiver setup was during the last NEAD battle.

As far as I know, for the array of aftermarket pretenders, only the Impact battle unit comes close to the Tamiya apple in terms of specification and performance (of having the right dimensions, prism and fins).

The current price spike of Tamiya battle units is just classic demand-and-supply economics at work - once the usual trusted-and/or-cheap sources are exhausted (like stellamodels, AAF Tank Museum), the market moves toward more expensive options to fulfill their needs. One of the guys in Singapore actually purchased a battle unit from Axels Modellbau in Germany simply because they had it in stock and he needed one to get in the action.

Given the scale of Tamiya's operation, and the small volume of TBU demand, it would not surprise me that they only periodically run their TBU production line for a limited number of units before moving to something else. So its a matter of time that they start producing again, or, if they are ending this item's production, it means that a TBU V.2 is in the works - they had just launched the JS-2 recently and it would surprise me if they abandoned support for a new model in their flagship line so soon.

"Patience, grasshopper......"
Old 05-01-2014, 02:33 AM
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I would get the impact unit if I were you. Jeff your experience might be a dodgy IR led. We have tested the impact system and it'll hit out to over 100ft. Of your hell bent on a tamiya there's a uk seller has them for 90 and I've bought two recently on uk eBay for 45 and 60.
Old 05-01-2014, 03:11 AM
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Oh, I know it was the bulb and I tested to see if it worked before installation too. It was just a disappointment that out of all the Tamiya systems, the first IMPACT I install didn't work correctly.

Jeff489 bought my IMPACT system but I included a new bulb for him.





Jeff
Old 05-01-2014, 06:22 AM
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thecommander
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I just spoke with Tasha today at the AAF Tank Museum. She indicates that they have no release date. The run on TBUs is due to the proliferation of alternate battle systems that use the Tamiya apple. You just can't beat the Tamiya quality.
Old 05-01-2014, 07:16 AM
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My theory was that tamiya was letting impact take up the slack. The impact unit seems to be baring the base shape and slightly dimmer LEDs almost identical. I know impact has worked closely with tamiya in the past.
Old 05-01-2014, 12:23 PM
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Panther F
 
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Originally Posted by Tread-Head
Hi Everyone,

I bought a used Tamyia tank and want to get a battle unit for it. This will be my first one.
I found someone who has a Tamiya system, but want $170 + shipping for it, compared to the $80 for an Impact system I can get.

So my question is it worth getting the Tamiya one over the Impact one? Are there any negative points about the Impact system?


You ARE right as this is the only one I could find!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAMIYA-BATTL...item4d1c59fe45





Jeff
Old 05-01-2014, 02:18 PM
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YHR
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It is not so much the Tamiya quality as it is the inherent flaws that make it harder to hit. The DBU or Carl's unit will actually register hits from further away and from all angles. However a more efficent apple puts you at a disadvantage when up against Tamiya tanks. SO in this case people are defaulting to the lowest common denominator so they don't suffer.

Now is the time for someone to market an apple with removable prisms, and TD adaptable concepts.. All it has to be able to do is plug into the existing Tamiya socket. There could be a whole range of inserts from prisms to cones, with different degrees of reflective qualitites to set armor ratings. Ie some reflective properties mean you have to get close to score a hit that register damages.

The time is ripe for an awakening. If you can't buy a Tamiya one people will have to look elsewhere.

Last edited by YHR; 05-01-2014 at 02:24 PM.
Old 05-01-2014, 04:18 PM
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reyemmanuel
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Originally Posted by Tread-Head
Hi Everyone,
So my question is it worth getting the Tamiya one over the Impact one?
It's not worth getting the Tamiya IR receiver system over the Impact IR Receiver system. Impact is essentially of the same design as Tamiya's, except for the base width where the former is a little bit narrower (likely to avoid IP violation). System-wise (IR led emitter, IR receiver housing, receiver base), it is at par with Tamiya.

At 68 USD, with IR emmitter, IR receiver and receiver base, you can't go wrong.

I have both. Impact was 90 AUD inc postage, whilst Tamiya at 99 AUD inc postage. I got the latter instead of another Impact because it was sold near me and at a nice price. If it was 180 AUD, I'd have ordered 2 Impacts.

Extra info:
The Impact Receiver will fit the Clark base by trimming the base down. This way I can fit both Tamiya and Impact.

Originally Posted by Tread-Head
Are there any negative points about the Impact system?
About the Impact system;
If you mean the IR receiver system. None.
It you mean in the IR gameplay, slightly in a disadvantage as it has better sensitivity than Tamiya's.
If you mean postage, slightly. Slightly expensive on this end, but probably due to insurance cost and customer support.


cheers,
Rey

Last edited by reyemmanuel; 05-01-2014 at 04:28 PM.
Old 05-01-2014, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by reyemmanuel
It's not worth getting the Tamiya IR receiver system over the Impact IR Receiver system. Impact is essentially of the same design as Tamiya's, except for the base width where the former is a little bit narrower (likely to avoid IP violation). System-wise (IR led emitter, IR receiver housing, receiver base), it is at par with Tamiya.

At 68 USD, with IR emmitter, IR receiver and receiver base, you can't go wrong.

I have both. Impact was 90 AUD inc postage, whilst Tamiya at 99 AUD inc postage. I got the latter instead of another Impact because it was sold near me and at a nice price. If it was 180 AUD, I'd have ordered 2 Impacts.

Extra info:
The Impact Receiver will fit the Clark base by trimming the base down. This way I can fit both Tamiya and Impact.



About the Impact system;
If you mean the IR receiver system. None.
It you mean in the IR gameplay, slightly in a disadvantage as it has better sensitivity than Tamiya's.
If you mean postage, slightly. Slightly expensive on this end, but probably due to insurance cost and customer support.


cheers,
Rey
Does the Impact IR emitter harness have the correct polarity and proper plug to fit J1 on the Clark TK22?
Old 05-01-2014, 06:40 PM
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reyemmanuel
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Originally Posted by Dusty Steppes
Does the Impact IR emitter harness have the correct polarity and proper plug to fit J1 on the Clark TK22?
Yes to both.

Originally Posted by Panther F
Plus, you cannot interchange the apples (Tamiya and IMPACT) without modifying the plug.
This is wrong information. They are interchangable, as Impact's IR receiver plug is the same as Tamiya.

You might have confused yourself the plug as the base. As for the base difference, Impact's IR receiver and base is narrower than than Tamiya's.

I found it cost effective to order heaps of Clark's base and trim to fit Impact's receiver. Once, trimmed (physically) it now fits the Impact IR Receiver as well as Tamiya's.
In turn, you can use both "apples" in a battler tank with Clark's modded base.
Old 05-01-2014, 07:11 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply!
Old 05-02-2014, 09:39 AM
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YHR I think you may have misunderstood me. ( ...from YHR " So this is something that needs confirmation as Bob's comments are contradictory to Curtis's with respect to the 45 degree defense of " Carl's battle unit." )

The lack of fins removes any slope defense (horizontal tilt angle). I don't recall saying anything about 45 degree defense or lack there of.

I have Carl's sensor and it is good. The apple works well and I would endorse it.


BEWARE of loose apples guys. Once the apple it is out of the IR circuit the IR emitter will no longer fire rendering your tank useless. This has been a issue with DBU Apples for years. Keep them tight in the mounts.


For the NEAD guys attending the Battleday this Sunday, I will have Tamiya & Impact IR battle units there for our club members who need them.... both to loan and to sell.
Old 05-02-2014, 09:51 AM
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YHR
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Thanks for the clarification Bob. So Carls apples do have 45 degree defense. I find this strange as the reason the Tamiya has the 45 degree defense is a result of the Pyramid reflector. Strange or not, as long as it does have that then it is only the slope defense it is missing.
Old 05-02-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by YHR
Thanks for the clarification Bob. So Carls apples do have 45 degree defense. I find this strange as the reason the Tamiya has the 45 degree defense is a result of the Pyramid reflector. Strange or not, as long as it does have that then it is only the slope defense it is missing.
Thanks Dan. You are always such a gentleman. I will battle with Carl's apple this weekend at the NEAD north Jersey event.

Last edited by thecommander; 05-02-2014 at 10:26 PM.
Old 05-02-2014, 10:11 AM
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I agree..this is one instance when I'd pay the price and go Tamiya. Not realizing the shortage, I sold my last Tamiya apple with my last tank(Sherman)...DAM, would have hung onto it If I had known!



p.s. wish somebody with the ability could design something like an apple that is very low profile and doesn't look so ridiculous sticking out the top of the tank..
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