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Is it ok to recharge my battery inside my tank?

Old 07-11-2014, 09:56 AM
  #1  
provopaul
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Default Is it ok to recharge my battery inside my tank?

Hi there,
I have the Taigen all metal early Tiger 1 tank. I was thinking about putting a plug at the rear of the tank to allow recharging while the battery is inside the tank. Is this safe it I only charge at 1 amp? I have a Tenergy Universal Smart Charger.
Thanks a bunch,
Paul
Old 07-11-2014, 10:03 AM
  #2  
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Your going to hear both yes and no. I personally don't like to do it, just in case your battery goes south while charging you don't lose your tank as well.
Old 07-11-2014, 10:10 AM
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Panther F
 
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I'm the same too... NO!

The secret is to have many batteries ready (charged up) and engineer the act of opening the tank so replacing batteries is fast and efficient. Too many things can occur while charging a battery and no matter how expensive the tank is, there's no need in putting it in harms way.






Jeff
Old 07-11-2014, 10:19 AM
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ausf
 
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I'm in the same camp, chances of a problem, low but why even risk it?

Besides the tiny risk, it's much easier to have a pile of batteries ready to go and swap out. I keep the battery charger on the bench while I'm working, having a tank sitting there would be a hassle. In my house, I could see a wire kicked, pulling the whole thing with it.

On large turret Tamiyas, you can slip the battery out of the opening with no fuss, others I usually hinge the back and build a flip up support to hold the hull open for access. The battery should always be disconnected when not in use, pulling it out shouldn't be any more difficult.
Old 07-11-2014, 10:23 AM
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My Torro Tiger 1 came with the charger plug built in to the inertia starter fitting, so the manufacturer thought it safe, and it probably is with a NI-CD or NI-MH but it verges on lunacy with a LIPO and I would suggest you avoid the practice. shaun
Old 07-11-2014, 10:38 AM
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provopaul
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I forgot to mention that I'm using a 5000 mah NIMH battery.
Old 07-11-2014, 11:30 AM
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Jeff489
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All my tanks have a charging port and on/off switch installed in them. I don't use Lithium Polymer batteries in my tanks. I currently using Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, and previously used both Ni-Cad and Ni-MH batteries inside my tanks. All worked fine with no problems.

In the end, it's a cost benefit analysis, and there are differing opinions, as the others have said.

The cost would be a potential overheat from an internal battery short or inappropriate charge vs the damage one might cause by popping turrets off (strips out the traverse mechanism) or cutting up a tank for special battery access doors. Some might say the potential battery danger is overstated, while others may say that the potential for tank damage is overstated...or that both can be reduced or managed by due care... It goes on and on.

Different folks will make this decision differently.

Last edited by Jeff489; 07-11-2014 at 11:51 AM.
Old 07-11-2014, 12:21 PM
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+1 I agree, always charging the battery outside the tank.
Old 07-11-2014, 12:51 PM
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Here's my typical setup, no battery door, etc. Snaps closed in front, hinged in rear. Clear battery access and everything else to see how it looks while I change it out. On the Tiger, I just rotate the turret to small pencil marks tell me it's lined up with the tabs and I lift it. No stripping or damage and again, I get a look see for an issues when the battery comes out.

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Old 07-11-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ausf
Here's my typical setup, no battery door, etc. Snaps closed in front, hinged in rear. Clear battery access and everything else to see how it looks while I change it out. On the Tiger, I just rotate the turret to small pencil marks tell me it's lined up with the tabs and I lift it. No stripping or damage and again, I get a look see for an issues when the battery comes out.














































That my friend is one of the sweetest setups I have seen as far as opening. Now to put my 2 cents in worth about the charging....

Ok so let us start with your tank. Let's say you spend $250 on your set up. That is rather cheap, but I shall explain. $250 is about 10 NIMH batteries. Do you really want to chance a problem over a $25 battery? Also, I am paranoid about charging safety. I recommend you find a steel toolbox and get a lipo bag and charge inside the toolbox with the lid open for air. Then you go to WallyWorld and buy yourself a less than $5 fire alarm and slap it right above your charger/battery. Follow the instructions here: www.batteryuniversity.com about charging and charging rates from the battery manufacturer and you will be fine. It is best not to risk it to avoid using the easy access levers (yes all the Torro tanks have them) to open the top hull in less than 5 seconds.
I agree with everyone else in the fact you can just bring two or three batteries and be good for the day. I run a 4000mAh battery and get plenty of runtime, with 2 or 3 batteries you might have the whole day to tank. They charge ports are all there on the Torro tanks, just we (myself and Taigen) will not provide support for internal charging. It is up to you if you want to risk it or not. I do know if there is a problem my lipo bags will always help and give me a few min to throw the toolbox outside.

That is my opinion, but of course it is what it is, an opinion.
Old 07-11-2014, 02:10 PM
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provopaul
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Thanks to you all for your answers. I'm going to charge outside my tank and not take any chances.
Old 07-11-2014, 05:35 PM
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I charge them inside and outside the tank. As others have mentioned when you move to a LIPO there is no decision, you have to charge them outside. I have never had an issue with NIMH inside a tank. Get a good charger and you will probably be fine.
Old 07-12-2014, 09:35 AM
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I agree with Dan's post. I have a charging port for my Tam Pershing and the disassembly process to reach that battery is a pain. Easier for my M4s, Tiger Is and IIs which is why they have LiPos in them.

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Old 07-12-2014, 11:55 AM
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I used to charge my battery in the tank until someone on this forum posted a picture of battery that had burst into flames whilst he'd been charging it.

Luckily it wasn't in his tank when this happened but he'd been using a good quality battery and charger which shocked a few people and changed a few peoples minds about charging in tanks.
Old 07-12-2014, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by StuN
I agree with Dan's post. I have a charging port for my Tam Pershing and the disassembly process to reach that battery is a pain. Easier for my M4s, Tiger Is and IIs which is why they have LiPos in them.

StuN
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An electric-driver and a magnetic bit makes short order of the Tamiya Pershing diss-assembly.

Besides... it's worth the extra time!





Jeff
Old 07-13-2014, 12:40 AM
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I never charge batteries in any model. I had a brand new 5000mah NiMH pack go up on me last year. Wasn't pretty.

I won't touch LiPos with a ten foot pole and will never use them in a model tank so they're a moot point; the fact that they're in
my fone, laptops and other things doesn't thrill me but I recognize they're a necessary evil...just not in a tank...

jerry
Old 07-13-2014, 12:20 PM
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Panther F
 
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Originally Posted by Tanque
I never charge batteries in any model. I had a brand new 5000mah NiMH pack go up on me last year. Wasn't pretty.

I won't touch LiPos with a ten foot pole and will never use them in a model tank so they're a moot point; the fact that they're in
my fone, laptops and other things doesn't thrill me but I recognize they're a necessary evil...just not in a tank...

jerry


Here here!





Jeff
Old 07-13-2014, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff489
All my tanks have a charging port and on/off switch installed in them. I don't use Lithium Polymer batteries in my tanks. I currently using Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, and previously used both Ni-Cad and Ni-MH batteries inside my tanks. All worked fine with no problems.

In the end, it's a cost benefit analysis, and there are differing opinions, as the others have said.

The cost would be a potential overheat from an internal battery short or inappropriate charge vs the damage one might cause by popping turrets off (strips out the traverse mechanism) or cutting up a tank for special battery access doors. Some might say the potential battery danger is overstated, while others may say that the potential for tank damage is overstated...or that both can be reduced or managed by due care... It goes on and on.

Different folks will make this decision differently.
What Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are you using?
Old 07-13-2014, 10:16 PM
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NiMH at 1Amp are safe for charging. I have added additional plugs to recharge batteries inside my tanks since the very beginning and never melt one in doing so.
In recent times I have equipped some LiPos though, and I go a little more careful with those. But if you keep recharging current low you risk more to damage your tank while flipping/opening it other than recharging it on board.
Old 07-13-2014, 10:38 PM
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I have pretty good, intelligent chargers and I'm fairly observant of charge and discharge rates of particular packs. Still the things just fail. That said
I will add that I have had only two failures in my lifetime so far. One was my fault the other, the more recent was just a defective pack.
The packs have been very reliable over the years. Still, the least valuable model I have is far more valuable than any battery pack or the
inconvenience ( albeit it annoying ) of removing one. To me the choice was a simple one.

I have both circuit breakers and fuses in my 1/10 models to help protect against faults

If it works for some to charge in place good for them; they're far more brave than I am.

The other reason I have for having my packs out of the models is I use them both in my 1/16 as well as my 1/10
models for the starter, turret drive and other functions. I try to cycle them but I'm not religious about it. I use NiMH exclusively.

Jerry
Old 07-14-2014, 10:05 AM
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Jeff489
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What Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are you using?
I'm using a variety. Different tanks, different batteries. Mainly, I use the Hobby King 4500mha matched 2s LiFe. They cost about 23 bucks, and fit in most tanks. For Tiger 1's, I use the Hobby King 2s 8400mha LiFe (38 bucks, and run 7 - 9 hours). For smaller tanks, I've used Hobbico's 2s 3200mha (shorty). The best LiFe I've found so far is the Hyperion 2s 3800mha. They are just a bit smaller, fit into Heng Longs, and are very durable.

As to radios, we've ran some Hobby King 3s 2650mha Li-Pos (I removed those to charge them), and their 3s 1500mha LiFe (also removed to charge). I couldn't use the wall worts to charge with the Lithium batteries in there. This is not really an issue now, as radios are starting to come with Li-Ion batteries as standard equipment (and a wall wort for charging).

Reasons I switched from Nickel based batteries were that I like the facts that LiFe batteries:

1. Are environmentally friendly, (unlike Nickel based battery systems which are hazardous material to dispose of around here). I try to be green when possible.

2. Have no memory (unlike a Nickel based battery). I really don't miss the constant cycling to get batteries to hold their rated charge (we normally tank six or seven tanks to a battle. In my experience, it took 5 cycles (a discharge/recharge) to effectively get the Nickel based battery to hold their rated charge (other than when they were relatively new). In my case, that was 7 tanks x 5 cycles each, plus 4 radios x 5 cycles each, for a grand total of 55 charge/discharges...which needs to begin on a Tuesday night (and continue non-stop) to get everything ready by Friday afternoon's departure time). Even using 4 chargers, it was tedious and time consuming.

3. Are quick charging (I can really push the power into LiFe's fast (10 amps are no problem), which is handy at a battleday if needed. I can full charge any tank during lunchtime.

4. Are relatively unaffected by heat (unlike Nickel batteries which can lose 20-30% of their charge from heat, and additional charge during the first 24 hours after a charge) generated when they stored in parked cars which helps when transporting tanks by car to distant locations (I can leave the equipment in the car at the hotel, instead of dragging it all to the room and charging all night). It's no longer a challenge to show up to a battle with fully charged batteries.

5. Have a long life span. LiFe's will easily take 1000 charges.

6. Are light weight. I'd estimate they weigh about 2/3 of what a Ni-Mh does. I notice it most in my radio.

I went with the LiFe vs the LiPo due to the non-flammablecharacteristics of LiFe and the availability of similarly sized battery packs.

Not to say they don't have drawbacks. If you let them go to zero volts, they are destroyed. You'll never be able to recharge it. If you upgrade, you'll likely need a new charger to charge them, or at minimum, update you current charger's firmware.

They work great for us. Been using them 3 years in many tanks. No issues.

Last edited by Jeff489; 07-14-2014 at 10:56 AM.
Old 07-14-2014, 12:33 PM
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I'm a LiPo guy and charge the batteries outside of the vehicles in a charging bag. Since both my vehicles that use the small packs (1300 and 1800mah used for airsoft guns) have the batteries on the outside of the vehicle disguised as equipment, I don't have the chore of having to crack the vehicles open to get to the batteries etc. I only have one tank that still uses a NIMH pack and I also charge it outside of tank. I plan on converting it over to use a small LiPo as well at some point as it will give me more room in the tank plus eliminate alot of the weight that comes with the NIMH. My Renault FT project will use a small LiPo as well when I get it finished and I'm using magnets to hold the top deck on so it hopefully won't be too much trouble in removing the battery for charging.

I'm more into light tanks or smaller vehicles so LiPo's really work best for me where size and weight are a factor. Unless I change over to LiFe batteries like Jeff's doing (and very successfully I might add, I've seen his setups), I'll just continue using them and definitly charge them outside of the vehicles.
Old 07-14-2014, 01:32 PM
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LiFe batteries are quite amazing actually. You just have to have those LVA/LVC sitting around to effectively use them as the lowest cutoff is about 2.8V per cell. I've even seen 2 and 3 cell TX/RX packs for under $10 lately. I personally try to convert all my stuff to Lithium if possible as it just makes my life a lot easier. I even converted my test TX to 2 cell lipo with a LVA built in

I cannot stress though how much you need a LVA/LVC (low voltage alarm/low voltage cutoff) and Lipo bags! Heck, you should have at least 1 Lipo bag especially for those hot NIMH batteries! Also go to wallyworld and get two cheap fire alarms, put one on your battery bag and one on your charger. Hopefully you will never have to thank me for the advice.
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Old 07-14-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff489
I'm using a variety. Different tanks, different batteries. Mainly, I use the Hobby King 4500mha matched 2s LiFe. They cost about 23 bucks, and fit in most tanks. For Tiger 1's, I use the Hobby King 2s 8400mha LiFe (38 bucks, and run 7 - 9 hours). For smaller tanks, I've used Hobbico's 2s 3200mha (shorty). The best LiFe I've found so far is the Hyperion 2s 3800mha. They are just a bit smaller, fit into Heng Longs, and are very durable.

As to radios, we've ran some Hobby King 3s 2650mha Li-Pos (I removed those to charge them), and their 3s 1500mha LiFe (also removed to charge). I couldn't use the wall worts to charge with the Lithium batteries in there. This is not really an issue now, as radios are starting to come with Li-Ion batteries as standard equipment (and a wall wort for charging).

Reasons I switched from Nickel based batteries were that I like the facts that LiFe batteries:

1. Are environmentally friendly, (unlike Nickel based battery systems which are hazardous material to dispose of around here). I try to be green when possible.

2. Have no memory (unlike a Nickel based battery). I really don't miss the constant cycling to get batteries to hold their rated charge (we normally tank six or seven tanks to a battle. In my experience, it took 5 cycles (a discharge/recharge) to effectively get the Nickel based battery to hold their rated charge (other than when they were relatively new). In my case, that was 7 tanks x 5 cycles each, plus 4 radios x 5 cycles each, for a grand total of 55 charge/discharges...which needs to begin on a Tuesday night (and continue non-stop) to get everything ready by Friday afternoon's departure time). Even using 4 chargers, it was tedious and time consuming.

3. Are quick charging (I can really push the power into LiFe's fast (10 amps are no problem), which is handy at a battleday if needed. I can full charge any tank during lunchtime.

4. Are relatively unaffected by heat (unlike Nickel batteries which can lose 20-30% of their charge from heat, and additional charge during the first 24 hours after a charge) generated when they stored in parked cars which helps when transporting tanks by car to distant locations (I can leave the equipment in the car at the hotel, instead of dragging it all to the room and charging all night). It's no longer a challenge to show up to a battle with fully charged batteries.

5. Have a long life span. LiFe's will easily take 1000 charges.

6. Are light weight. I'd estimate they weigh about 2/3 of what a Ni-Mh does. I notice it most in my radio.

I went with the LiFe vs the LiPo due to the non-flammablecharacteristics of LiFe and the availability of similarly sized battery packs.

Not to say they don't have drawbacks. If you let them go to zero volts, they are destroyed. You'll never be able to recharge it. If you upgrade, you'll likely need a new charger to charge them, or at minimum, update you current charger's firmware.

They work great for us. Been using them 3 years in many tanks. No issues.
Good info, thanks. Did you have make any changes to the HL or Taigen electronics to use the LiFe batteries? Just add a low voltage alarm or low voltage cutoff? Don't need them?
Old 07-15-2014, 01:48 PM
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To run a 2 cell LIPO there is no need to make any changes except to add a LVA or LVC to your battery. This is because a fully charged LIPO runs at 4.2V per cell, or 8.4V total for a 2 cell lipo. It actually sits real close to a charged 6 cell NIMH battery in voltage, so no change is needed.
LIFE is another story. Since it's max voltage is 3.6V per cell, you are getting very close to the danger zone to run a 3 cell LIFE battery. You are best running a 2 cell LIFE battery with a LVA/LVC attached. The LIFE battery has a good discharge profile so you wont see much of a voltage sag under load like you do with NIMH/NICD batteries.

Also, BUY A LVA OR LVC! They are cheap and will save your models. They can be used on tanks, cars, helis, quads, trucks, etc. It has been one of the most useful items ever since I started using lithium batteries. I shall do a LVA video sometime to show how great they really are.

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