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Best alternative system to Tamiya DMD and MF unit for Tiger 1

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Best alternative system to Tamiya DMD and MF unit for Tiger 1

Old 05-11-2015, 05:53 PM
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SGTMAJMVJ
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Default Best alternative system to Tamiya DMD and MF unit for Tiger 1

Hey tankers,
It's been a while since I've logged on. Anyhow my Tamiya T1 flash circuit inside the MF unit has fried again. I've returned MF units to Tamiya before so I know the drill on that.
This time around I would rather gut the T1 of the MF unit and DMD and replace it with the best alternative system. I need a system that is plug and play with Tamiya recoil, turret rotation, elevation and also offers sounds and driving/control characteristics like the DMD/MF combo. What's the latest offerings out there now? I'm a bit rusty on my knowledge of this subject.

Thanks

Last edited by SGTMAJMVJ; 05-11-2015 at 05:56 PM.
Old 05-12-2015, 01:27 AM
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I would go with the IBU2, it's an excellent board and you can get a wiring kit to make it plug and play for Tamiya wireing. Sounds are excellent and they're great for battling. Everything's fully customisable off a micro sd card.

https://youtu.be/QUlzaI1ZAtU

Heres a demo in my Elefant.

http://rctankelectronics.weebly.com/

Ians a great seller and is very helpful with after market service.
Old 05-12-2015, 03:32 AM
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Pcomm1.v2
 
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This post seems vendor driven nonsense, but here goes:

Since your still, mostly in the USA, being from Smyrna, Georgia and all, look geographically closer to Canada to get that cool recommend system: http://battlearmorrc.weebly.com/index.html

Though seriously, first ask yourself what the heck am I doing wrong to screw up the bullet proof Tamiya DMD, MF system?

Doubt if you and your controller gremlins will have any better luck working with a different ESC system and besides Tamiya USA will replace your controllers at no charge if they failed due to a OEM defect, so why spend your money?

Last edited by Pcomm1.v2; 05-12-2015 at 03:36 AM.
Old 05-12-2015, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pcomm1.v2 View Post
This post seems vendor driven nonsense, but here goes:

Since your still, mostly in the USA, being from Smyrna, Georgia and all, look geographically closer to Canada to get that cool recommend system: http://battlearmorrc.weebly.com/index.html

Though seriously, first ask yourself what the heck am I doing wrong to screw up the bullet proof Tamiya DMD, MF system?

Doubt if you and your controller gremlins will have any better luck working with a different ESC system and besides Tamiya USA will replace your controllers at no charge if they failed due to a OEM defect, so why spend your money?
The Tamiya system isn't bullet proof (it's reliable and plug and play but not bullet proof), the recoil and flash circuits have always been the bits most likely to fail. I've had a couple of mfus go this way and I know several other in the club and on here that have had such issues.

You won't have the same flash issues with other system because the flash circuit isn't on board like on a Tamiya it's generally just a trigger voltage.

SGT, as the BBC would say other systems are available (hopefully this satisfies Pcomms "vendor driven nonsense" accusations). I've had good experience of the IBU so I recommend it. I'm not a fan of some aspects of the Clark so I'm not recommending it.

I haven't used dans system but the videos look excellent, how ever it was my understanding it's not plug and play for Tamiya tanks and doesn't fit the OPs requirements.

Peace
Old 05-12-2015, 05:02 AM
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YHR
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I doubt there is anything that is plug and play with the Tamiya system. Chances are you will need new connectors at the very least. The elevation motor, recoil, turret rotation are all fundamentally the same. So any system will drive the Tamiya end devices.

My Website is the best place to read about my opinion as to why I use the BARC/Benedini over anything else. It is the one system that mimics the Tamiya battle system the best with the least amount of fuss.

There are a lot of boards out there now that exceed the sound quality of Tamiya, and just about everyone of them is unique enough to make direct comparisons hard. You need to ask yourself exactly what you want out of the electronics, and then choose the system that works best for your needs.

Support is important with electronics. Without it, the best designed board can end up in your junk drawer
Old 05-12-2015, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by YHR View Post
I doubt there is anything that is plug and play with the Tamiya system. Chances are you will need new connectors at the very least. The elevation motor, recoil, turret rotation are all fundamentally the same. So any system will drive the Tamiya end
As I said there is an adapter that makes it plug and play for a Tamiya tank.
Old 05-12-2015, 05:19 AM
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So this adapter pack is all plug and play no soldering required? Just curious as I have not seen it..
Old 05-12-2015, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by YHR View Post
So this adapter pack is all plug and play no soldering required? Just curious as I have not seen it..
Yes I believe it is
Old 05-12-2015, 06:30 AM
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I totally agree with Tom. IBU2 is the way to go. It supports Tamiya recoil and should be totally plug and play, but you might have to change a plug or two. Even that requires no soldering, just crimping in new jst or futaba J plugs.

I also doubt you'll save much by purchasing from Canada. Shipping from the UK is $24, from Canada will probably be around $22, so I'd rather deal with Ian than an unknown, but for someone that's never dealt with Ian it may not matter. I just like to stick with what works, and I know Ian's customer service is almost as good as Erik's (and that's really saying a lot). Not to mention that right now the dollar is strong against the pound so that also helps.
Old 05-12-2015, 06:35 AM
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Clarification: From reading Pcomm's post it seemed he was recommending you get an IBU2 from Battle Armor, but after investigation I found Battle Armor doesn't sell the IBU2 so I'm back to my original recommendation. Ian Judge for an IBU2.
Old 05-12-2015, 07:09 AM
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For me the best alternative is Elmod + Benedini TBS Mini .

My KT , Panther T-34 and Tiger I (sorry but poor quality of recordings)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-BESpzW93g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM7CK4xhtUY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc4JOO7UXSY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se3GQXJV_AE

Last edited by wsn123; 05-12-2015 at 07:11 AM.
Old 05-12-2015, 08:52 AM
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Hello Tom,

Within the context of this thread, I directly answered his question and offered SGTMAJMVJ my valid opinion (via experience), that this is the best Tamiya substitute and the best, easy to use, best sounding system available: BARC/Benedini.

In my opinion, the other possible alternatives are delicate, some cheaply made (IBU2 and Clark) and prone to failure and one would need to be demented and or a vendor marketing his or her items on rcu to change out the Tamiya DMD, MF setup to run a substitute electronics package.

Though I am reminded of the phrase mad dogs and Englishmen in this thread, so there you are.




At the very least the IBU2 and Clark are feeble, not enjoyable and troublesome to run when compared to the Tamiya DMD, MF, TBU plug and play package.

I do not know what what SGTMAJMVJ did to his Tamiya Tiger model's DMD, MF (due post photos of your build), but I will guess he screw'd with his Tamiya stuff.

I have seen other tanker modelers ruin their Tamiya electronics though.

Everything from the receiver plugs being poorly trimmed off and ruined to the case cracked by trying to open it up or handling it roughly. And that is just dumb modeler, ham fisted stuff and not a Tamiya OEM issue. I do not plug various components into the wrong sockets, ruining LEDs or worse; I do not open the cases up (LOL); and I do not trim the tabs off the receiver plugs to use a Spektrum DX 6 radio.

Per my experience, in the last eleven years, I have built all the WWII Tamiya RC Tanks (sans the KV-2, but built two KV-1s) and the DMD, MF, TBU package has proven to be BULLET PROOF (superior reliability and sounds loud & great and it works when you go to the tank after sitting for months unlike any British made auto and again that is my user experience.

Also the Tamiya Battle Unit is really the only reason to be interested in rc tanks anyway and in that regard there is also no substitute!



Enjoy, John

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Last edited by Pcomm1.v2; 05-12-2015 at 08:58 AM.
Old 05-12-2015, 10:49 AM
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Per my experience, absolutely definitely not Clark.
Old 05-12-2015, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Pcomm1.v2 View Post
Hello Tom,

Within the context of this thread, I directly answered his question and offered SGTMAJMVJ my valid opinion (via experience), that this is the best Tamiya substitute and the best, easy to use, best sounding system available: BARC/Benedini.

In my opinion, the other possible alternatives are delicate, some cheaply made (IBU2 and Clark) and prone to failure and one would need to be demented and or a vendor marketing his or her items on rcu to change out the Tamiya DMD, MF setup to run a substitute electronics package.

Though I am reminded of the phrase mad dogs and Englishmen in this thread, so there you are.




At the very least the IBU2 and Clark are feeble, not enjoyable and troublesome to run when compared to the Tamiya DMD, MF, TBU plug and play package.

I do not know what what SGTMAJMVJ did to his Tamiya Tiger model's DMD, MF (due post photos of your build), but I will guess he screw'd with his Tamiya stuff.

I have seen other tanker modelers ruin their Tamiya electronics though.

Everything from the receiver plugs being poorly trimmed off and ruined to the case cracked by trying to open it up or handling it roughly. And that is just dumb modeler, ham fisted stuff and not a Tamiya OEM issue. I do not plug various components into the wrong sockets, ruining LEDs or worse; I do not open the cases up (LOL); and I do not trim the tabs off the receiver plugs to use a Spektrum DX 6 radio.

Per my experience, in the last eleven years, I have built all the WWII Tamiya RC Tanks (sans the KV-2, but built two KV-1s) and the DMD, MF, TBU package has proven to be BULLET PROOF (superior reliability and sounds loud & great and it works when you go to the tank after sitting for months unlike any British made auto and again that is my user experience.

Also the Tamiya Battle Unit is really the only reason to be interested in rc tanks anyway and in that regard there is also no substitute!



Enjoy, John

Ah John, always good to see your trolling is as bad as ever. Insulting the op as well. SGT if the IBU appeals give me a shout and I'll put you in touch with Ian (don't think he's on here). I'll refrain from posting further as the thread seems to be taking a turn for the worse.
Old 05-12-2015, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tomhugill View Post
Yes I believe it is
I will check Ian's site. Plug and play should be that. If you have to swap ends or crack open a soldering iron then it is not plug and play.

I will not get dragged into anymore of these type of discussions on sound and battle systems.. I know what I sell, I know it works and I know the service I provide. It matters not to me what people buy anymore. I am in this for fun.

IF you are serious about IR batlting the best thing is to head out to the field and give it a try. Range, sensitivity and interacting with each tank is key thing you are looking for. It is your money spend it wisely otherwise you will have a drawer full of stuff that for one reason or another is no longer in your tank anymore,

Last edited by YHR; 05-12-2015 at 01:21 PM.
Old 05-12-2015, 03:19 PM
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Hey SGT, SFC Johnson here, I just went through all of this on a few tanks.
here is my briefing

If its a tamiya tank, keep the tamiya mfu system, i do think its the best bust costly to buy aftermarket for custom builds and conversions. Iv Heard pof some flash units burning out but not that common.
John (Pcomm) only uses tamiya on his airsoft to ir conversions and he does great with it. I cant quite afford all the tamiya stuff aftermarket to build costum shermans. I have one E8 conversion that is almost done with tamiya stuff.

My other conversion tanks I used various versions of Battle armor products. DBC3, BARC4 with servo recoil etc, love them. If you go that route, listen to Dan and do exacly what he says, dont try to do things your own way.
Here is my barc4 sherman https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8t9AeRBdjHk
Old 05-12-2015, 04:44 PM
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I use my clark and I enjoy it, small size, good cost, tons of features, at the offset of having to do a little more effort in setup (what a shame right?)
Old 05-12-2015, 04:53 PM
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You guys probably missed this; SGT's issue is his MF unit fried AGAIN. So it's understandably he want to find an alternative. Telling him Tamiya electronics is the best doesn't help him at all.

SGT, I'm assuming the unit is still under warranty & they will replace the unit with no cost to you except shipping, right? Cost wise this is the best route. Changing to different electronics is going to cost you $$$$. When you ask this kind of question in this forum, everyone will come pitching their favorite electronics. Like Dan (YHR) said, the best way is to test it yourself. If you don't know anyone in your area use IBU2 and/or BARC/Benedini that you can go see & test, there's a lot of video in youtube you can watch to see what these boards can do.
Old 05-12-2015, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post
Hey SGT, SFC Johnson here, I just went through all of this on a few tanks.
here is my briefing

If its a tamiya tank, keep the tamiya mfu system, i do think its the best bust costly to buy aftermarket for custom builds and conversions. Iv Heard pof some flash units burning out but not that common.
John (Pcomm) only uses tamiya on his airsoft to ir conversions and he does great with it. I cant quite afford all the tamiya stuff aftermarket to build costum shermans. I have one E8 conversion that is almost done with tamiya stuff.

My other conversion tanks I used various versions of Battle armor products. DBC3, BARC4 with servo recoil etc, love them. If you go that route, listen to Dan and do exacly what he says, dont try to do things your own way.
Here is my barc4 sherman https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8t9AeRBdjHk
Well to start with anyway. You want success and trouble shooting after someone has gone down the creative road can be fun!!!!!!
Old 05-12-2015, 11:08 PM
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Tamiya's electronics are made by a tecnology coming directly from the ....80's to tell the best.... all the recent alternatives (IBU2, Clark, El-mod) are like the Next-Gen NCC-1701-E compared to the NX-01, for all Star Trek fans out there...
Old 05-13-2015, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by borealis View Post
Tamiya's electronics are made by a tecnology coming directly from the ....80's to tell the best.... all the recent alternatives (IBU2, Clark, El-mod) are like the Next-Gen NCC-1701-E compared to the NX-01, for all Star Trek fans out there...
I agree. I recently picked up a Tamiya Panzer IV and it's a great kit but I was disappointed by the electronics. They are solid and easy to install/run but when compared to the El Mod I have in my Tiger it lacks a lot of the features that most of the new alternatives offer. The standard for RC tank electronics has moved up in in the last couple of years and Tamiya has been left behind.
Old 05-14-2015, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by borealis View Post
Tamiya's electronics are made by a tecnology coming directly from the ....80's to tell the best.... all the recent alternatives (IBU2, Clark, El-mod) are like the Next-Gen NCC-1701-E compared to the NX-01, for all Star Trek fans out there...

I think of it more like comparing 60s cars to today.

Those cars were reliable, lasted forever, and could be diagnosed by almost anyone, just by ear.

Todays cars have so many bells and whistles that an advanced degree in engineering is needed just for maintenance.

It's a tank, I put a battery in it, drive and battle and put it back on the shelf. No time spent figuring out the flash timing, brown outs, downloading sound, yadda yadda yadda. 12 years later, I still put a battery in it, drive and battle and put it back on the shelf. Why would I need anything different?

As to the OP, so more info would be great: what did Tamiya say about it, how many times did you send it in, etc.

The flash system is run by caps and a trigger coil. Both are the most likely to fail out of all electronic components. Caps are the electronics industry's dirty little secret because the length of time anything will last is based on it. If someone wants a radio to last one day longer than the warranty, they can choose a cap that'll last for that prediction.

If Tamiya got your MFU and couldn't replicate the issue, cap hadn't failed and wasn't misfiring, and sent it back to you, then it might not have been fixed. Out of all the Tamiyas I have, I had one that will occassionally not fire. It'll go 20 times, then not for a bit, then fire steady again, so that might be harder to diagnose.

On recoil, watch the jst plugs (flash too) since that is usually the source of the issue. Also interference with the micro switch. Any barrel impact can cause the recoil frame to misalign.

I'm not writing this to convince you or anything, by all means if you want to change stuff go ahead, but the only reason I've ever heard of someone swapping out Tamiya electronics was for better sound cards like the Benedini, I've never experienced or heard of anyone changing for reliability. It's usually the other way around.
Old 05-20-2015, 02:33 PM
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I took Eric's advise and made a LED flash. I had a spare recoil unit and took the recoil switch off the unit and stacked it on top of the existing unit in my T1. I slaved the switch arms together and wired up the second switch to a 9 volt battery and a resistor running to a white LED place in the muzzle break. So now I have a mechanically actuated LED wired up to a 9 volt battery. It's all in the turret and tucks in nicely. I've test fired it while running the tank over terrain and it works just fine. 25 cycles and I'm satisfied it's battle ready. I've got a fast recoil system in the T1 so the entire recoil cycle takes about 1 second meaning the LED stays lit for 1 second. Sideways the view of the LED is not as bright as a Tamiya flash but straight on it's brighter and more focused than the Tamiiya flash unit. Eric' idea saved me the fingers crossed exercise in sending the MF back to Tamiya for a third replacement. This works great. Saved $205 buying a new MF Unit.
Thanks Eric!
Old 05-22-2015, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by borealis View Post
Tamiya's electronics are made by a tecnology coming directly from the ....80's to tell the best.... all the recent alternatives (IBU2, Clark, El-mod) are like the Next-Gen NCC-1701-E compared to the NX-01, for all Star Trek fans out there...
So is the International space station, Hubble telescope and all of the Nimitz class aircraft carriers to name but few. Tried and tested. Space Shuttles ran on 386s for a long while because they could do all that was required and are still perfectly serviceable. FYI the MFU/DMD in the Leopard 2A6 is from 2006 and still has features no other board does 9 years later. It's swings and roundabouts, old doesn't mean bad. If that was the case why do some brand new drone designs use jet engines designed in the 50s? Why does Martin Baker test it's ejection seats in probably the worlds only and oldest compressor jet engine powered aircraft?
Old 05-22-2015, 03:34 AM
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That is because sometimes reliability is a top requirement over performance, such as in space flight and so, usually when an in-mission failure (even due to unforeseen environmental conditions, as in outer space) is unacceptable.
But the whole thread begins with SGTMAJMVJ having his 'realiable' MFU flash circuit fried AGAIN.
Factor in the price DMD/FMUs are sold at, and the answer can't be 'another MFU'.

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