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M4a3 76W Mato turret on HL sherman

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M4a3 76W Mato turret on HL sherman

Old 11-12-2015, 10:15 PM
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RichJohnson
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Default M4a3 76W Mato turret on HL sherman



The pictures kinda show what this is all about. Fitting up a junked mato turret I got for a few bucks off evilbay onto a HL Sherman.
The turret doesn't fit perfect, it moves side to side and front to back a tad, causing rotation to slip off the gear occasionally or just bind, so I glued a strip of styrene sheet around the inside of the barbet ring on the tank hull. This was just enough to take up the slack and make the turret align dead center in the barbet.

I added a loaders hatch I got from Woz shapeways account and a periscope cover from Nick.
I cut out the airsoft gun and installed a scale Nick barrel. Then fit up servos for elevation and recoil. Then used body putty for the casting texture, I got a little heavy with it on this tank, just kind of experimenting with it. Its too course, but looks cool so whatever. I will go back to a finer texture from now on. Then I cut out the bottom of the turret plate because I glued the halves together. I made a rear support for the bottom plate with bondo inside and screwed it all together, that way its easily accessible for servicing. I hate fab jobs that cant be serviced when needed. I also ground off the stock pistol hatch and installed a HL one and blended it in.
I used Tamiya OD as Steve Turchet suggests is accurate WWII OD, I think its a tad too green, but it looks good so I will just weather it with some black and darken it over.
I put a barc4 and bendini sound in it. Pulled out the smokers to make a speaker box.
Im now chiseling off the molded on stuff and putting real grab irons on the model and then the periscope guards.
All in all, I tried to do this cheap and fast, and yet I didn't do much of either goal. I just keep getting distracted from my bigger projects like the M3 and the Jumbo. Oh well, It might be sold, if not, I don't care.
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Old 11-14-2015, 01:17 PM
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Very nice! Gotta love form AND function!
Old 01-12-2016, 01:29 PM
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Giving credit where, it's due. I started to cut my Mato turret on my Sherman last night, and I'm totally using this as a reference.
Old 01-12-2016, 02:48 PM
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Ok. Keep in mind the piece of plexi that i installed toward the rear at the bottom to act as a rear tab to screw the turret base to.
its threaded for 4-40 screws which i use alot of.

Last edited by RichJohnson; 01-12-2016 at 02:59 PM.
Old 01-13-2016, 07:58 PM
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I realized I never posted the finished pictures. So here they are. I don't like the green color. Its straight Tamiya OD. Which is too green.
I have this tank tentatively sold but if it falls through I might go and mask the stars and shoot it with my new mixture of OD wich I think is perfect, not green and not brown. Over all, this project took me longer than I planned, mostly because I was trying to fix all that was wrong with the mato turret from their product flaws. The recoil also takes some time etc. Im happy with my process on it, but still, the mato 76 turret just aint right and looks it when sitting next to a tank with a nick aguilar turret.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:27 PM
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Man, that looks good.

From my limited research, I read that the Tamiya OD is closer to the OD used post war. The wartime color was more of a khaki. I mix between brown and green to blend with dirt and foliage.

I've got my turret glued back together, I just need to find time to clean it up, and fill the cut seam with miliput.
Old 01-13-2016, 10:49 PM
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No, Wartime OD for Armor was a dark OD, almost the same as post war FS24087.
The same dark OD was used from the late 20s through WWII on armor.
Paint was originally glossy and took days to dry. When WWII started they switched to lusterless, flat, and made it from different ingrediants to help it dry faster.
All the paint for armor was the same color, but depending on manufacture, it would fade to brown or pea green after a few years, but usually it was repainted before it gets that bad. Now monuments and personally owned military vehicles fade this way because they don't get repaited as often. Mine are doing this in front of my house.
Mid war, the Armor board changed to semi gloss OD, same color but the semi gloss makes it appear much darker.
The correct color is not green or brown, but can look either depending upon its background. The OD was mixed 50-50 Ochre and black to achieve this.
Steve Turchet an authority on the subject stated he felt Tamiya OD was the closest out of the bottle he could find, but he had to add some brown to it.

I acchived what I think is correct by mixing Tamiya black, yellow and brown. I made a test sample that was perfect, but it was not scientifically measured.
I got very close to my sample but had it too dark. So my next chance I will test 2 parts black, 2 parts yellow and 1 brown. I suspect this will be near perfect, if not needing one more part black.

I get very irritated by various colors of green shermans that are way too light and while look very cool and great with lots of shading etc, are totally too light and yet justified by the modeler claiming fading. Which would not have happened post DDay. Maybe a small hatch in the pacific after two years, maybe. But OD back then lasted longer than that by far.

Old paint was so much better than it is today. Pigments were stronger and bonded with led. Which held them on the subject matter much better and resisted fading. They were usually heavy pigment that was delivered to the site that would then be mixed with mineral spirits and lindseed oil etc for a carrier and reducer. The lindseed oil is what would take a long few days to dry. Chemical improvements allowed for lindseed oil to be removed.
Old 01-14-2016, 05:29 AM
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And I stand corrected. Thanks for the info!
Old 01-14-2016, 08:49 AM
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Something like this?

Old 01-14-2016, 09:25 AM
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Well, no not really. Khaki Od is not appropriate for US armor. Its was a dark OD. That is very close to the color used on jeeps and trucks, which is very different than armor. They used two different colors.

Now sunlight and shading can affect your color on the camera and my PC etc, but that looks wrong on my screen.
look over this article by Steve,
http://www.militarymodelling.com/new...ive-drab/4536/

look at the photos of the line up of the light tanks, and the half track, these appear to be color period photos with fairly fresh paint.

try this out, mix your own following the forumla I stated. I am going to finalize my mixture this weekend if you want to wait. Ochre is a orangey mustard color, hence why I add brown to yellow in the mixture.
I will post back when I have the color mixed correctly.
Keep in mind size compression. On a small tank it will look darker than on a full size real tank. A little less black or a few drops of white will tone it down but still be the correct color.
Old 01-14-2016, 01:31 PM
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Well, I can use the can of rustolium I bought on the tank hauler. I'll have to keep looking for a good cheap and easy paint. I've used the Tamiya OD, I just don't have the airbrush equipment so I buy the rattle cans, and they are tiny lol.

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