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Questions On Replacing Parts On Taigen Panzer IV

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Questions On Replacing Parts On Taigen Panzer IV

Old 01-25-2018, 02:29 PM
  #1  
cicerokid
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Default Questions On Replacing Parts On Taigen Panzer IV

Have a plastic version Taigen Panzer IV mod 12098 that I bought in 2015. Also bought some sprocket, idler, road, and shoulder weight replacement wheels in metal. Did pretty well taking apart the tracks removing the old sprocket and idler wheels and removing the shoulder weight wheels. However when I got to my first road wheels, I snapped one of the pieces that the wheels mount on. The piece (there are 4 on each side) looks like a mini leaf spring and each has 2 wheels attached to it. My questions are as follows:

Is there anywhere to get just one of these spring like mounts? I see Taigen in Fl has a kit for $19.95 but don't need all those pieces.
Have never removed the top from the main body on this tank. It doesn't appear to have top release lever. Does one just remove the screws from the 8 largest holes to get inside the tank?
Once inside, do I have to remove anything else to install the new spring piece (it appears to attach via a screw from the inside)

Many thanks for any help.
Old 01-25-2018, 05:00 PM
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Dusty Steppes
 
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Each suspension unit has two road wheels. Between the two roadwheels you will see something that looks like a hubcap. Remove that hub cap and you will find a screw that can be removed with an Allen wrench. Be warned that there is a spring underneath the hubcap that you don't want to lose. If I were you, I would drop the money on a new set of suspension units. Set the new units up with the metal roadwheels and save the originals for spare parts. If you run a Panzer iv outside on grass, be prepared for suspension damage if you do any backing.

Last edited by Dusty Steppes; 01-25-2018 at 05:04 PM.
Old 01-25-2018, 09:14 PM
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jarndice
 
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The worse thing about the Heng Long and Taigen Panzer 4 is the Suspension,
Even when it is properly fitted it rarely works correctly.
If you can get hold of the Tamiya Panzer 4 Suspension and retrofit that all your PZ4 troubles will disappear.
.Shaun.
Old 01-26-2018, 06:08 AM
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cicerokid
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Thanks for the advice much appreciated. Turns out that what I need (if I don't buy a complete set) is a "metal shock rocker arm right".--If anyone has one I would be glad to buy it and pay for shipping also.
Old 01-26-2018, 07:24 AM
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cicerokid
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Dusty removed the hub cap from the shock rocker arm (right). There was no spring under it plus I notice all the other rocker arms on both sides had no tension on them. Could it be that Taigen left off all the springs? I looked on the Taigen site and noticed their metal suspension set had a lot of springs in the picture. Will call them up. Thanks again.
Old 01-28-2018, 08:43 PM
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One minor update: the spring under the center "hub cap" is actually housed between the two halves of the suspension. After undoing that bolt with the allen wrench (which I only recommend doing after you have already removed the wheels), you'll notice that the suspension splits in half. That's where the spring is. Don't lose it; it falls out easily when you split it.

Not sure exactly what parts you're trying to source, but you could start here. You may have to ask about the springs, if you need those.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/335068

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...515169105.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...516735346.html

...or search the rest of AliExpress. But, give yourself some time; the searches need to be pretty broad and bring a lot of results to browse through.

The eight screws just need a regular-sized phillips-head screwdriver. I did away with them and replaced them with a magnetic system on my PzIV.

Last edited by philipat; 01-28-2018 at 09:58 PM. Reason: added source links
Old 01-29-2018, 05:16 AM
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cicerokid
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Thanks for the update. I just went ahead and ordered a suspension kit from Taigen in Fl. This way I'll have all the springs plus the suspension arms. One last question, once I get the springs is their a certain orientation to the placement of the spring between the two suspension halves?
Old 01-29-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by cicerokid View Post
Thanks for the update. I just went ahead and ordered a suspension kit from Taigen in Fl. This way I'll have all the springs plus the suspension arms. One last question, once I get the springs is their a certain orientation to the placement of the spring between the two suspension halves?
No, not really. You may find that one way seems easier for reassembly than the other. But, it's entirely a question of preference rather than functionality.
Old 01-30-2018, 05:22 AM
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cicerokid
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You folks have been very helpful and---I really appreciate it. Have a great day !!!!
Old 02-03-2018, 08:44 AM
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cicerokid
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Got the kit and ready to put springs in all of the suspension arms. Have one problem. Obviously the spring (as you mentioned) goes between the 2 pieces of the arm. When I put the screw thru the top piece (the smaller one) and then place the spring on the bottom of it---it fits fine and uses all the space in the channel. My problem is then placing the bottom piece (with the leaf springs) onto the assembly. The spring seems a bit too long. Is there a trick in putting this together? Doesn't seem like one would trim the spring. Almost there--prob some easy thing to do that I have not thought of. Many thanks--!!!
Old 02-03-2018, 08:26 PM
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Why did philipat direct people to a heng long store in china , when he needs taigen in America? I ordered from aliexpress 2 years ago, lost $300 for nothing
Old 02-04-2018, 02:21 AM
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jarndice
 
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If you look closely at the suspension arm you will see a hole which is where the extended "Tail" of the spring fits, Often the Hole needs drilling out with a pin vise to clear the "Flashing"
Shaun.
Old 02-06-2018, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cicerokid View Post
Got the kit and ready to put springs in all of the suspension arms. Have one problem. Obviously the spring (as you mentioned) goes between the 2 pieces of the arm. When I put the screw thru the top piece (the smaller one) and then place the spring on the bottom of it---it fits fine and uses all the space in the channel. My problem is then placing the bottom piece (with the leaf springs) onto the assembly. The spring seems a bit too long. Is there a trick in putting this together? Doesn't seem like one would trim the spring. Almost there--prob some easy thing to do that I have not thought of. Many thanks--!!!
If I understand your question, Shaun answered it. The metal spring is long than the suspension arms are wide so that they can articulate along that metal piece. Make sure to assemble it so that the length sticking out is trailing to the rear of the tank. Maybe the pictures in this link will help a little: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...l#post12043510

Also, some of your questions are little hard to visualize. If you can add pictures to your questions, it will help us to help you.
Old 02-10-2018, 07:35 AM
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cicerokid
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Yep, sure enough I had to clean out the flashing on almost all of the holes. I hadn't read the post from Jarndice so I emailed Erik at Taigen and he took care of me right away, Almost done now,. Am mounting the Drive Sprocket and Idler wheel that came with the metal kit. One last question--2 small black lock washers came with the parts for the Sprocket and Idler wheels. Which one of the wheels does it go on--and where on that wheel? Many many thanks---
Old 02-10-2018, 08:15 AM
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jarndice
 
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The Spring washers fit on the two hex headed screws that hold the sprockets in place on the gearbox output shaft.
You of course have noted that the end of the output shaft is "D" shaped and the inside of the sprocket is also "D" shaped to provide a positive fit of the sprocket to the output shaft.
Before you do that have you fitted Gearbox output shaft bearings?
By doing that any flex in the extended length of the output shafts is negated and the shaft is properly supported.
You will need the particular gearbox type number so that you get the correct size bearings. (Different Gearboxes have different diameter output shafts)
Shaun.

Last edited by jarndice; 02-10-2018 at 08:35 AM.
Old 02-10-2018, 12:02 PM
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cicerokid
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So the spring washers fit on the screws and go down into the hole in the top of the sprocket ? Am just replacing the plastic sprockets with metal ones and did nothing to the output shaft. therefore do I have to do anything to the output shaft bearings? thanks
Old 02-10-2018, 01:11 PM
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Dusty Steppes
 
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My Taigen PzIVF2 that is from the same time frame came with zinc geared 3 shaft transmissions. If that is what you have, compare the diameter of the screw hole in the plastic drive sprocket with the screw hole in the metal sprocket. You will probably find that the hole in the metal one is larger. This is because the metal sprockets are designed to fit on Taigen transmissions and not the Henglong transmissions that your tank has. You can use a flat washer paced between the sprocket and the lock washer to overcome the size mismatch. Or you can go through the added expense of buying steel geared transmissions from Taigen and they will come with the required screws.

The bearings that Shaun is talking about are add-ons that fit on the hull and add support to the shafts.

Last edited by Dusty Steppes; 02-10-2018 at 01:16 PM.
Old 02-10-2018, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cicerokid View Post
So the spring washers fit on the screws and go down into the hole in the top of the sprocket ? Am just replacing the plastic sprockets with metal ones and did nothing to the output shaft. therefore do I have to do anything to the output shaft bearings? thanks
Correct...put the washer on the hex bolt, then put the bolt through the sprocket and into the drive shaft. Then, tighten. Ensure that the sprocket is properly assembled. If you have the metal ones, they are held together with 2 or 3 (I forget which) small screws. Just ensure that everything is even then the sprocket will slide over the shaft like Shaun described.

Dusty brought up some good points about the bolt sizing. You should stick with the bolts that came with the gearboxes in your tank. Use flat washers if the hole in the metal sprockets is bigger than the hole in the plastic ones. Now that he mentions it, I think that is what I found in my PzIV. But, I upgraded to Mato gearboxes; but the sizing was a similar consideration.

I agree with Shaun that you really need to consider adding a set of bearings to the drive shafts. They should attach to the hull. There are a couple of ways to do that. You can try to seat the inside the transmission cover or you can try to bolt them to the side of the hull. Here's an example of each:

Bolted to hull side: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...l#post12158790

Embedded in the transmission cover (on a PzIII but same concept): http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-t...l#post11526368
Old 02-10-2018, 02:36 PM
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My favourite build is the Panzer 4 in all of its various mks, Until recently the PZ4 was one of a very few 1/16 r/c tanks which did not have a metal hull available as an alternative except of course "Tamiya's" Plastic coated metal hull,
Now both "Asiatam" and more recently "Taigen" sell them, Both are very disappointing but if you are determined to have a metal Hull my choice would be the "Taigen" not because it has less problems than the "Asiatam" but because the metal is much softer and easier to work,
The two biggest faults are the lack of any provision for the fitting of a track tensioner and I have listened to "Taigens" argument that track tensioners are not needed,
RUBBISH !!!
The other major fault is that the Gearbox output shaft covers are a part of the metal hulls forging,
This means that the conventional fitting of Gearbox output shaft bearings is not possible,
The answer is quite simple,
,It was suggested by a German member of the "RCTW" Forum,
I emulated the method but simplified it,
If you have the regular "Taigen" 4 to 1 Gearboxes with the "8" mm output shafts then go to E-BAY and look for "8 mm X 14 mm X 4 mm Flanged Bearings" ,
A pack of 5 costs approximately 6 you will need just two unless like me you build more than one PZ4 at a time !
Take off the sprocket and spray PTFE along the output Shaft then using a suitable size socket tap the Bearing down the shaft and stop just before you reach the lip of the output shaft cover,
Lightly coat the lip of the cover with Superglue and drive the bearing home,
Ensure the flange of the bearing is in contact with the lip of the cover.,
Repeat on the other side,
Then let the hull stand overnight to cure,
Refit the sprockets and test fit the tracks to check the alignment, I have found it to be spot on.
Fitting output shaft bearings on a plastic hull can be done in exactly the same way which makes it easier and cheaper than the conventional way of fitting them
The track tensioner fit is also much easier than I expected but you will need the services of a "Dremel" or similar Multi-Tool.
.Shaun.

Last edited by jarndice; 02-10-2018 at 02:42 PM.
Old 02-10-2018, 03:13 PM
  #20  
Dusty Steppes
 
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One more thing to check is the fit of the metal sprockets on the drive shafts. If it is tight, lightly file the flat side of the drive shaft, test fit the sprocket. If it is still a tight fit, repeat the process until the sprocket easily slides on and off the shaft. This can prevent a major headache down the road when maintenance is required.
Old 02-11-2018, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jarndice View Post
My favourite build is the Panzer 4 in all of its various mks, Until recently the PZ4 was one of a very few 1/16 r/c tanks which did not have a metal hull available as an alternative except of course "Tamiya's" Plastic coated metal hull,
Now both "Asiatam" and more recently "Taigen" sell them, Both are very disappointing but if you are determined to have a metal Hull my choice would be the "Taigen" not because it has less problems than the "Asiatam" but because the metal is much softer and easier to work,
The two biggest faults are the lack of any provision for the fitting of a track tensioner and I have listened to "Taigens" argument that track tensioners are not needed,
RUBBISH !!!
The other major fault is that the Gearbox output shaft covers are a part of the metal hulls forging,
This means that the conventional fitting of Gearbox output shaft bearings is not possible,
The answer is quite simple,
,It was suggested by a German member of the "RCTW" Forum,
I emulated the method but simplified it,
If you have the regular "Taigen" 4 to 1 Gearboxes with the "8" mm output shafts then go to E-BAY and look for "8 mm X 14 mm X 4 mm Flanged Bearings" ,
A pack of 5 costs approximately 6 you will need just two unless like me you build more than one PZ4 at a time !
Take off the sprocket and spray PTFE along the output Shaft then using a suitable size socket tap the Bearing down the shaft and stop just before you reach the lip of the output shaft cover,
Lightly coat the lip of the cover with Superglue and drive the bearing home,
Ensure the flange of the bearing is in contact with the lip of the cover.,
Repeat on the other side,
Then let the hull stand overnight to cure,
Refit the sprockets and test fit the tracks to check the alignment, I have found it to be spot on.
Fitting output shaft bearings on a plastic hull can be done in exactly the same way which makes it easier and cheaper than the conventional way of fitting them
The track tensioner fit is also much easier than I expected but you will need the services of a "Dremel" or similar Multi-Tool.
.Shaun.
Nice write-up,Shaun, and awesome solutions to the problems of the metal hull for both the tensioner and the drive shaft bearing. Did you happen to take pictures of both on your build? Please, tell me I didn't miss them if you did.

The Taigen metal hull is also nice because it corrects the placement of the most rearward return roller. It's incorrect (too high) on the HL and Taigen plastic hulls and also on the Asiatam metal hull. That said, all of them are wrong in terms of the height of the sprocket. You can only address that on the plastic hulls and even then your ability to address it is very limited by the way the upper hull is setup.
Old 02-11-2018, 07:05 AM
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cicerokid
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Got it------thanks everyone. Much appreciated.

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