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HAYA 1/16 RC Chieftain

Old 08-01-2020, 02:12 PM
  #151  
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Hi Guys
Havoc has been down for Maintenance for over a week now, thought I'd put up a couple of pics to show a bit of progress.

Mal

General fwd view - What A Job added to flat & cast surfaces as texture/non slip. Rubber shock boot to barrel, drilled out drivers periscope, new gunners periscope (shutter moveable) acrylic periscopes still to add

What A Job to cast surfaces & flat surfaces as non slip

Modified the MBSGD's (Multi Barrel Smoke Grenade Dischargers) to more closely look like the actual shape, drilled out the barrels & What-A-Job to the sides & top - cast areas. New Gunners sight - the shutter arm was very tricky & still not quite right

Haya 3D accessory kit provided cupola cover, but kept my own NBC pack (Mk 6)

Haya 3D accessory kit provided new gun clamp, now slightly modified

What -A-Job added to flat surfaces as texture/non slip

What A Job added to the bow plate & idler mounts - needs a 2nd coat - experimented with Flex Tape for mudguards, think heat shrink rubber is better
Old 08-06-2020, 03:35 AM
  #152  
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Looking good there AFV, a belter of a job on all the scratch building. My hat is off to you sir.
Old 08-06-2020, 02:22 PM
  #153  
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Hi Tankman
Thanks for the kind words, working on the skirt (10) & tow rope brackets (6) of late. Probably good candidates for 3D printing?
Then the Cupola, as it doesn't look like Woz will be doing that anytime soon. Dave Dibbs 1/6th version provides some clues on how to proceed.

Mal
Old 08-07-2020, 02:21 AM
  #154  
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Looking forward to seeing how you go with the 3D printing AFV, got to be honest and say that the cupola on the Chieftain was one of it’s weakest points as far as detail went. However Andrew and Haya ltd did listen to the feed back on the Chieftain both positive and negative and is incorporating those observations into the design process of the Centurion. As soon as I get any further updates on where Haya is at with this model I will post, but obviously due to the current situation things are a bit further behind than planned at present.
Old 08-07-2020, 02:47 AM
  #155  
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Hi Tankman
A slight misunderstanding there - I haven't done any 3D printing myself, though have collaborated with Woz and another to produce M41 parts mostly, a few years back. Was hoping he might take the hint - subtle as...

This link shows Dave's cupola, 10 th post down - Chieftain Commanders Cupola Detail set - Page 4 - Armortek -

My version - will probably feature a lot of evergreen rectangular tube, but need to pull out the ruler and do some research.

Mal
Old 08-07-2020, 06:48 AM
  #156  
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If you look at how many parts are in that cupola, you have your answer right there as to why it may not have that much detail in a production tank. Making a mold that can be used over and over thousands of times in die casting or some sort of vacuum chamber is not cheap in a mass production environment. I think that most people would say that making tracks, hulls, suspension, and turrets are the most complex parts of a custom tank. Adding details to a cupola is something most modelers could do on their own. Sometimes the cost outweighs the benefit. People already complained that the Haya Chieftain was too expensive. Adding all of these details could add so much cost to the project that people would never buy it or it would make it too expensive for the majority of people. Casting a couple of hundred parts in your home is much different than mass producing thousands of parts in a factory with strict quality controls. Even Tamiya doesn't produce enough detail IMO and they are a HUGE company. The lack of detail help make the tank durable enough to survive shipping and lowers manufacturing costs. I would venture to guess that both of these are the reason most HL tanks now ship with most of their details still on sprues for the end user to install.
Old 08-08-2020, 01:38 PM
  #157  
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Default New Chieftain metal tracks.

Just a quick heads up to let you know Andrew at Haya ltd is going to release new metal tracks with rubber pads. The tracks in the photos are Hayas pre production tracks in raw metal, the production tracks will become with a black finish. Pleas keep an eye on the Haya ltd U.K. web site for price and availability.






Old 08-08-2020, 01:50 PM
  #158  
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Hi Tankman
You're probably right about that. Perhaps a better objective would be to have the cupola as a separate part, so it can be easily removed for those who want to go 'all out'? Especially as both Chieftain & Centurion cupola's are rotate-able on the real thing.
Funny you mention Tamiya - I have the 1/35 Tamiya Chieftain - actually 2 - and they bear a remarkable resemblance to the level of detail that appears on the Haya, so assume they were the basis.

Someone mentioned the 1/25 Tamiya Chieftain as being the basis - my uncle had one of those back in the 70's or 80's - so I know it wasn't the basis, as it depicted one of the Prototype (P models) complete with the 2 piece searchlight cover, with the hinge in the middle & the glacis 'hide the angle" box on the bow - link to the model - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tami...totype--280554 - it was originally released in 1967 & and has been re-released several times since with modified parts - one of which is the tracks - my uncle's one had rubber band tracks - unlike those in the unboxing review.

Wow, new tracks - do you have a shot of the back side? Do they still have the hollows in the back? And is the guide horn still centred or moved to the back edge as it should be?
Thought the hollows should be on the front, so a rubber pad could be fitted in them.

Chief tracks with neoprene rubber blocks to fill the hollows on the back - lower track, upper track with unfilled hollows

Guide horn moved to rear of track, nut added to center (secures rubber pad)

Stowed track, note prominent nut & rear placed guide horn

Track side view, note track pin holes are fairly large


Mal

Last edited by afv aficionado; 08-08-2020 at 02:09 PM. Reason: More info
Old 08-09-2020, 12:14 AM
  #159  
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Hi AFV spoke to Andrew on that very subject the other day. The main issue with doing that is cost, if he went down the route of having a mould made he would certainly not even recoup his costs. Much the same with 3D printed cupolas the cost per unit would be high due to the design fee. Plus he suffers the penalty of being a low volume producer, if he was ordering in the thousands of units his discount would be much higher, which he could then of course pass on to customers.
However moulding or printing in low volumes pushes up the cost of each individual unit to the point it’s not cost effective for Andrew as a producer or more importantly for us the customer. He actually pointed out that his conversion kit for the Chieftain ( to make it a MK 10 I believe ) has “ only just covered its costs, despite its price point “. He admitted the cost had to be higher than he wants but as it’s a custom low volume order his supplier has charged him a premium price per unit. So he is also between a rock and a hard place. He does however appreciate all his feedback on his model and it is being listened to and where possible and affordable will be taken on board and used on his present and any future models.
Old 08-09-2020, 11:21 AM
  #160  
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Rather sounds like that old saw - "How do you make a small fortune in RC modelling - start with a large fortune."

Mal
Old 08-09-2020, 06:45 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by tankman View Post
Hi AFV spoke to Andrew on that very subject the other day. The main issue with doing that is cost, if he went down the route of having a mould made he would certainly not even recoup his costs. Much the same with 3D printed cupolas the cost per unit would be high due to the design fee. Plus he suffers the penalty of being a low volume producer, if he was ordering in the thousands of units his discount would be much higher, which he could then of course pass on to customers.
However moulding or printing in low volumes pushes up the cost of each individual unit to the point its not cost effective for Andrew as a producer or more importantly for us the customer. He actually pointed out that his conversion kit for the Chieftain ( to make it a MK 10 I believe ) has only just covered its costs, despite its price point . He admitted the cost had to be higher than he wants but as its a custom low volume order his supplier has charged him a premium price per unit. So he is also between a rock and a hard place. He does however appreciate all his feedback on his model and it is being listened to and where possible and affordable will be taken on board and used on his present and any future models.
I have helped Carson with some 3D printed projects so I have a rough understanding on the cost.

AFAIK the pricing of the Chieftain Mk.5 kit from Haya (which I have ordered) is way more than enough to cover the printing cost. However Haya is a more conventional company than the small workshops and it is based in the UK. It will likely need to pay for running costs and outsource more of the process to other firms (such as the 3D drawing).

Old 08-09-2020, 07:30 PM
  #162  
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I looked at the cupola yesterday with a view to replacing it. I mentioned above that it can rotate on the real vehicle, but as I found yesterday it's not so straight forward. Most of the pictures you see of Chief are with the GPMG trained fwd, few show any other direction. It turns out the lower periscopes with the washer/wiper units are fixed & only the internal part - with hatch, gun mount & TC's upper periscope - are traverse-able. You'll see on the model that there is a moulded seam between the two. If you fit Haya's 3D update kit cupola cover as is, you loose sight of this, though it too should have an inner & outer.
The Haya 3D kit - yes thought it was fairly expensive, but on reflection, given the number of pieces you get, it's comparable or better than Shapeways costs that I've paid.
Mal
Old 08-10-2020, 01:26 AM
  #163  
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You nailed it Mal, Andrew does indeed have to outsource his 3D design and printing to a 3rd party. Add to that his costs to import the parts to the U.K. get them through customs and delivered to his warehouse. Then of course there is the UK VAT at 20% to add to the purchase price. Andrew is fully aware this makes his 3D printed parts expensive but not as expensive as some made in the U.K.

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