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New member, New Taigen / Torro Panther G Metal Version Build

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New member, New Taigen / Torro Panther G Metal Version Build

Old 02-23-2020, 04:16 PM
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MarkLes
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Default New member, New Taigen / Torro Panther G Metal Version Build

Greets everyone,

I just purchased a new Torro IR Metal version Panther G from the Heng Long Panzer shop Germany and am researching for a paint scheme, Unit, Theater, etc. I'll be honest & say I am somewhat of a "Rivet Counter" and due to the significant investment involved with these tanks I want to get it "right". I have done a ton of research already on this model but still need some blanks 'filled in' on information I have not been able to find. I own at least a dozen books on the Panther but the one that really gets down to nuts-and-bolts is the late Thomas Jentz and Mr. Hilary Louis Doyle's book "Germany's Panther Tank, The quest for combat supremacy". This books is a deep dive into very specific details and time lines regarding all things 'Panther Tank'. Another book that compliments that work is Authors Roddy Macdougall and Martin Block's "PANTHER External Appearance & Design Changes".

Without boring you with too much minutiae... If your familiar with the Torro / Taigen metal version Panther G model this tank model has some very specific details, out of the box, that pinpoint almost the exact date and Chassis Number of Manufacture. I'm no expert here, but just follow along and you'll see my point. If you are into this tank, I've already got you hooked anyways....

It had to have been produced by either M.A.N. or M.N.H. as Daimler Benz added hooks to mount road wheels on the tops of the rear turret side plates around this time. (Ref: Page 172 of Roddy & Martin's book) This model does not come with those hooks. Because the information available is great from M.N.H., I'm going to make the assumption this tank was built by Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen Hannover. Based on the notes on pages 96 and 97 (5.3.22 & 5.3.23) regarding the Flammenvernichter Exhausts beginning with Fgst. Nr 128875 and the installation of Cover Plates on the right side gratings for the radiators on the rear deck beginning with Fgst. Nr 128877. This means that this tank had the MNH Chassis Number (Fgst. Nr.) 128875 or 128876 which rolled off the assembly line in Hannover on the 8th of December, 1944. These would have been the 99th & 100th respective tanks from Order # 60 0697. This tank has the Flammenvernichter exhaust but does NOT have the gratings on the right rear engine deck over the radiator intake grilles. It is interesting to note that all of the other details on this tank model, down to the bolt locations on the rear engine access hatch, are correct for this specific time period. Good on Torro / Taigen for doing their research.

What I would like to know is once they left Hannover on or about 8 December, 1944. Where did they go? What unit did they serve in? What theater did they operate in? This would have been 8 days prior to the beginning of the Battle of The Bulge in the Ardennes. Hard to get a tank to the front that fast by rail. The assumptions are easy to guess of course, but where can I find data to know this information? If you haven't guessed by now, this IS part of the fun, for me at least....

Thanks for the 'Tread Head' help everyone!

Mark L.
Old 02-23-2020, 05:38 PM
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cleong
 
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Aside from Taigen's Panther F which was virtually a paper Panzer, every manufacturer out there sells the same late G variant.

Given the amount of research you're doing, you can go for a more unique tank by acquiring or scratch building parts to make for example an early G variant that has the shot trap mantlet, no crew heater on the rear engine deck and simple exhaust stacks.

If you're feeling more adventurous you can try to make a Panther D or A - many of the restored Panthers e.g. the Littlefield Panther is an A model, added bonus of the mid-war Panthers is that you get to do Zimmerit as well.

My own Panther G is a out of the box Tamiya build including the decals:






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Last edited by cleong; 02-23-2020 at 05:49 PM.
Old 02-23-2020, 06:22 PM
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MarkLes
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Great looking Panther you've got there. Yes, I know I could modify this thing into something else. I'm sure you've heard my excuse before.... My job is all consuming.... I barely have the energy left after a days work just to get home and enjoy some peace & sanity before going back the following morning. Weekends are my retreat and I would prefer doing a little research on the PC to find out some tasty tidbit of information on the one I've got and having a back-story as it were prior to painting. It's lower impact sports so to speak. I appreciate your speedy reply and sharing the photos.

Cheers,

Mark L.
Old 02-24-2020, 03:21 PM
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Hi Markles,

Like you, I'm a rivet counter.. An extreme perfectionist if you will.. So, I get it.. Every scrap of detail is important to someone like me.. Even down to the "is this the right bolt they would have utilized back then for this metal plate." Some people complain I'm to obsessive over this stuff. But to me, it's part of history, therefor important to me.. It's fun for me.. Even though most people think I'm fussing too much over what they deem "a toy." But yup, even the correct bolt locations are serious to me..
Old 02-24-2020, 04:57 PM
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Not too hard to get it from factory to the front in 8 days, if it's made a priority. Germany isn't very big; neither is Belgium or Poland in the opposite direction.

That said, the best thing might be to research some of the battles that happened from early December through late January and see which ones had Panthers, but more specifically which had late Panther Gs. Once you've done that, you can see if there are any unit histories for those that had them in those battles. Some of the unit histories will include records that showed how many of what arrived on what date. A few include hull numbers.

That's a lot of research, but it might help you "decorate" it to match the specific tank in its assigned unit.
Old 02-25-2020, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by philipat View Post
Not too hard to get it from factory to the front in 8 days, if it's made a priority. Germany isn't very big; neither is Belgium or Poland in the opposite direction.

That said, the best thing might be to research some of the battles that happened from early December through late January and see which ones had Panthers, but more specifically which had late Panther Gs. Once you've done that, you can see if there are any unit histories for those that had them in those battles. Some of the unit histories will include records that showed how many of what arrived on what date. A few include hull numbers.

That's a lot of research, but it might help you "decorate" it to match the specific tank in its assigned unit.
Hey, thanks for the replies thus far you guys. What philipat said about making it to the front seems to be true. I found a web site by searching for 'panther1944' that has a ton of info on it relating to this topic. Martin Block has compiled information from original documents by the General Inspector de Panzer Truppen found at the BA-MA Freiburg i. Br. (Bestand RH 10). It shows that on the date these two Chassis Numbers rolled off the Hannover Assembly Line 8 December 1944 there were 12 Panthers assigned to I./Pz.Rgt. 1 (1. Pz.Div.) which arrived to the unit on the 12 December 1944 just 4 days later. Also there were 25 Panthers assigned to II./SS-Pz.Rgt. 10 "Langemarck"(10. SS-Pz.Div. "Frundsberg") and arrived at the unit on 11 December 1944 just 3 days later.

Based on info on the 'feldgrau' web site I know that after 10th SS Panzer finished with the Paras at Arnhem they were sent to Geilenkirchen, Germany to continue rest and refit. In early December II./SS-Pz.Rgt. 10 "Langemarck" had one battalion, with two PanzerV (Panther) companies and two PanzerIV companies. By
3 January, 1945: 10. SS-Panzer-Regiment "Langemarck" had expanded to two battalions, including one PanzerV (Panther) battalion with four companies and one Panzer IV battalion with three companies. It's entirely possible that these Chassis numbers ended up in those shipmets to 10th SS Panzer at Geilenkirchen. More Research ahead....

Cheers,

MarkLes
Old 02-27-2020, 03:08 PM
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Welcome!!! Do you have a Facebook account? If you do there is a really good group, Panther Tanks Research Group.
Here is the link, https://www.facebook.com/groups/150962418862375/ You should check them out they may have answers to what you seek about your Panther G.

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