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Getting proper turret rotation speed.

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Getting proper turret rotation speed.

Old 02-28-2022, 08:44 PM
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Maccrage
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Default Getting proper turret rotation speed.

Is there a way, not involving the TCB, to adjust the turret rotation speed? Not making it adjustable, but to set it to prototype speed. I want to give my M10 the proper, slow, hand-cranked rotation speed of about 80 seconds for a complete rotation. I don't battle, so I'm not worried about the disadvantage, I'm a scale modeler who likes play with my models.
Old 03-01-2022, 03:34 AM
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look at the RCTW
there you got two answers to the same question...
Old 03-01-2022, 07:32 AM
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Depending on what kind of radio you are using, you should be able to adjust the endpoints on that channel to get the desired speed.
Old 03-01-2022, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Crius View Post
Depending on what kind of radio you are using, you should be able to adjust the endpoints on that channel to get the desired speed.
Stock Mato radio that came with the M10.
Old 03-01-2022, 09:14 AM
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I think you have to have the programming cable to change end points on that radio. Myself, I just use the proportional speed and don't run the turret rotation as fast. Most people complain that the turret turns too slowly, especially for the more modern tanks, this is the first time I've seen anyone trying to slow them down. Perhaps a small resistor in line with the motor? Maybe start with the 100 ohm resistors that we use for the LEDs and see if that slows it down?
Old 03-01-2022, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Crius View Post
I think you have to have the programming cable to change end points on that radio. Myself, I just use the proportional speed and don't run the turret rotation as fast. Most people complain that the turret turns too slowly, especially for the more modern tanks, this is the first time I've seen anyone trying to slow them down. Perhaps a small resistor in line with the motor? Maybe start with the 100 ohm resistors that we use for the LEDs and see if that slows it down?
I can try that. I want something that's built into the tank, and not dependent on the radio programming.
Old 03-01-2022, 10:50 AM
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I'm pretty sure a small resistor would slow the top speed regardless of what radio you're using. I'm very interested to see how this turns out, so please do post results.
Old 03-01-2022, 11:09 AM
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You may try the Diode speed control on the SEAD site

Create exciting Web pages - http://www.mcwebsoftware.com

Near the bottom of the page

The main advantage of this over a resistor is the current is not limited, only the voltage, as resistor alone may make the motor too sluggish to move the weight of the turret

Old 03-01-2022, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by heavyaslead View Post
You may try the Diode speed control on the SEAD site

Create exciting Web pages - http://www.mcwebsoftware.com

Near the bottom of the page

The main advantage of this over a resistor is the current is not limited, only the voltage, as resistor alone may make the motor too sluggish to move the weight of the turret
I agree, a diode will be better than a resistor, you may need a few diodes however. This will effectively lower the voltage supplied to the motor not the current. 1N4001 should work, don't use a small signal diode (small glass type) they may not have the current capability.
Old 03-01-2022, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tankhobby View Post
I agree, a diode will be better than a resistor, you may need a few diodes however. This will effectively lower the voltage supplied to the motor not the current. 1N4001 should work, don't use a small signal diode (small glass type) they may not have the current capability.
Thanks. I may have been a Navy Radioman, but I know Jack diddly about electronics.
Old 03-02-2022, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Maccrage View Post
Thanks. I may have been a Navy Radioman, but I know Jack diddly about electronics.
It can be frustrating and is my least favorite part of the hobby, but I have to admit it feels pretty good when you finally get things sorted.
Old 03-06-2022, 11:12 AM
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Quoting Zaloga: "The lack of a power traverse for the turret was a significant drawback in tank fighting, as it took nearly eighty seconds to traverse the turret 180 degrees."

That's the goal.
Old 03-06-2022, 12:14 PM
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What about scale? Would you want to divide the 80 seconds by 16? That would be ten seconds for a full rotation, which would seem very slow.
Old 03-06-2022, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Crius View Post
What about scale? Would you want to divide the 80 seconds by 16? That would be ten seconds for a full rotation, which would seem very slow.
I get what you mean, but I don't think so.

Linear speed scales down. If the real tank can cover 60miles in one hour, the model should cover 60/16 so 3.75 miles in the same hour.
Weight scales down by a factor of 3. So a 60,000lb real tank should be 60,000/16/16/16 (length,width,height) to get a scale realistic 14.64lb model.
Rotational speed doesn't scale down I don't think. For example if your tank is running at a scale realistic speed, the wheels are still rotating at the same RPM as the real one. They're just 1/16th the diameter which is what gives you 1/16th the speed of the real one. So your turret should rotate at the same RPM as the real one, but the tip of the muzzle will be moving 1/16th as fast, because it's only 1/16th the distance away from the axis of rotation. You're rotating at the same RPM but how far you are from the center will determine how "fast" you're going. I'm sure someone smarter than me can prove me wrong though. Math was never my strong point.

Last edited by BorisS1990; 03-06-2022 at 07:12 PM.
Old 03-06-2022, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BorisS1990 View Post
I get what you mean, but I don't think so.

Linear speed scales down. If the real tank can cover 60miles in one hour, the model should cover 60/16 so 3.75 miles in the same hour.
Weight scales down by a factor of 3. So a 60,000lb real tank should be 60,000/16/16/16 (length,width,height) to get a scale realistic 14.64lb model.
Rotational speed doesn't scale down I don't think. For example if your tank is running at a scale realistic speed, the wheels are still rotating at the same RPM as the real one. They're just 1/16th the diameter which is what gives you 1/16th the speed of the real one. So your turret should rotate at the same RPM as the real one, but the tip of the muzzle will be moving 1/16th as fast, because it's only 1/16th the distance away from the axis of rotation. You're rotating at the same RPM but how far you are from the center will determine how "fast" you're going. I'm sure someone smarter than me can prove me wrong though.
That's what I'm thinking. A degree is a degree, it doesn't scale. I do need to research the actual speed though. Zaloga says 80 seconds for 180°, but I've also seen 80 seconds for a full 360°.

Last edited by Maccrage; 03-06-2022 at 07:13 PM.
Old 03-07-2022, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Maccrage View Post
That's what I'm thinking. A degree is a degree, it doesn't scale. I do need to research the actual speed though. Zaloga says 80 seconds for 180°, but I've also seen 80 seconds for a full 360°.
I wonder if another way of looking at it is that time doesn't scale for the operator? Despite the tank being 1/16th the operator is still a human who experiences the passage of time the same way the humans who operated the actual tanks did. Likewise loading times, time to travel a scale mile, etc should all take as long as they took for the real humans who operated the real things and went the real distances. Does that seem sensible?
Old 03-07-2022, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by oldwolf75 View Post
I wonder if another way of looking at it is that time doesn't scale for the operator? Despite the tank being 1/16th the operator is still a human who experiences the passage of time the same way the humans who operated the actual tanks did. Likewise loading times, time to travel a scale mile, etc should all take as long as they took for the real humans who operated the real things and went the real distances. Does that seem sensible?
I thought that too. And that's probably more accurate, since degrees automatically scale. As the circle gets smaller, the distance between degrees is less., but it's still a degree of a circle.

Last edited by Maccrage; 03-07-2022 at 11:44 AM.
Old 03-07-2022, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by oldwolf75 View Post
I wonder if another way of looking at it is that time doesn't scale for the operator? Despite the tank being 1/16th the operator is still a human who experiences the passage of time the same way the humans who operated the actual tanks did. Likewise loading times, time to travel a scale mile, etc should all take as long as they took for the real humans who operated the real things and went the real distances. Does that seem sensible?
Sounds legit to me.
Old 03-08-2022, 05:57 AM
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This might be a place to apply "scale effect". All the best static modelers lighten their paint a bit for scale effect because when you scale a vehicle down they say it looks darker than it's full sized counterpart. Perhaps we should apply scale effect to time as well? I still think a ten second rotation would look a lot more realistic and some will still find it too slow. Ten seconds can be a lot longer than you think, especially when you're trying to line up on a P3 or a Hetzer that has you in its sights!!
Old 03-08-2022, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by oldwolf75 View Post
I wonder if another way of looking at it is that time doesn't scale for the operator? Despite the tank being 1/16th the operator is still a human who experiences the passage of time the same way the humans who operated the actual tanks did. Likewise loading times, time to travel a scale mile, etc should all take as long as they took for the real humans who operated the real things and went the real distances. Does that seem sensible?
I agree. I think when you scale down a human time will run faster for the little dude than for a full sized human like us. But at the end of the day, it's your tank Mac, you should build it to perform in a manner that you find realistic. If it looks right to you, don't worry about it. What mulletheads like me think shouldn't stop you from enjoying the performance of your tank in a manner that you find realistic.

Old 03-10-2022, 04:20 PM
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I found out the turret rotation speed for a Tiger 1 on the internet and adjusted the speed on my Elmod board’s parameter adjustments. I really enjoy the realism offered by aftermarket boards. I just received a Beier as replacement but haven’t installed it yet.
Old 03-11-2022, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tankster View Post
I found out the turret rotation speed for a Tiger 1 on the internet and adjusted the speed on my Elmod board’s parameter adjustments. I really enjoy the realism offered by aftermarket boards. I just received a Beier as replacement but haven’t installed it yet.
https://youtu.be/EaCxeZdOMZ0
I really like the look at that speed. It makes the tank appear ponderous and enormously heavy, as it should. Yes, it means that trying to get the gun in line during an IR battle is more difficult but that is part of the challenge.
Old 03-13-2022, 01:50 PM
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It should be noted the Tiger One turret rotation speed was variable, depending on the engine RPM, that determined the rotation speed of the turret, so they could make it turn faster if need be by revving up the engine. I read the difference in speed for various RPMs (can't remember where). This was also true of the Panther and the King Tiger turrets. I'll look for the table or chart I read.
Steve
Old 03-13-2022, 03:02 PM
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Very true. I chose to replicate the faster, engine assisted speed. The Elmod board allows to have both speed sounds available.

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