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Our hobby really needs a new Tank Control Board

Old 04-03-2022, 01:56 AM
  #26  
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The 7.1 has been released. Just hard to find right now.
Old 04-03-2022, 09:39 AM
  #27  
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Do you guys think games like World of Tanks, War Thunder, or Hell Let Loose, if you want multiple people in your crew, have affected the RC tank Hobby? I know my interest in model tank kits, and RC led me to my first RC tank, and I plan on picking up several more, but I have no interest, at all, in the slightest, in battling my RC tanks. I can get a much more exciting, battle on the computer. The RC tanks are more for impressing the Ladies! While no simulation or arcade game can come close to real tank combat, I'd say it can get closer than what limited RC tanks can do. It's funny, the games always have to make the German tanks better than they were, and the American tanks always slowly get nerfed, as the German armor fans cry their thanks are not easy mode (like they assume wrongly they were in real life). I mean, the first three or four King Tigers were lost to a lowly T-34-85 they never even saw.

The main point about the games, even the arcade ones, is they model armor thickness, gun and shell penetration, and different shell types. They include artillery and airpower. Hell Let Loose, and Enlisted feature tanks, infantry, and airplanes working as a team. There is so much going on, trying to make it seem more real, they do a decent job of making it challenging and fun. Player skill makes a difference, but it's also a team game. I know, different animals, but I just don't get the battle appeal with RC tanks. The limitations on the tanks really make it just a remote version of laser tag.

I guess my take is, tank games sell tank model kits, and RC tanks, but probably do not inspire people to battle them.

I would love to get a better electronic setup too, but I just want more options and realism, don't care about battles so much. Not that I would want it removed or not supported.
Old 04-03-2022, 01:02 PM
  #28  
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I play World of Tanks, but less and less these days. I'm spending more time on my RC hobby as it's a more tangible item and we do go out on the field to battle. I would say once a person gets into tanks, any number of different things can inspire them to expand in the field. I've pretty much done it all from building my own scratch built tanks to working on and driving real tanks by volunteering on a maintenance/restoration crew at a museum. I've broken track on a real M60, removed the turret on a real Sherman tank, driven a real M26 Pacific tank recovery vehicle, ridden around in a Walker Bulldog, driven an M42 Duster, driven an M114, driven a Mutt Jeep, and ridden around in an M60 to name some of the things. My love of tanks came from going to Army/Airforce Open Houses when my father was a CW3. They would bring in the Army Golden Knights parachute teams, haul in different military vehicles to crawl around on/in, and have a parade. I have a picture of myself standing on top of an Abrams tank, one sitting in the cockpit of Chinook helo with the pilot's helmet on, and sitting behind an M60 machine gun mounted on a UH-1 Huey at about age 13.
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Old 04-03-2022, 08:29 PM
  #29  
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Tk16 requires no programming and it’s tamiya battle compatible. Like the HL 6.0 it has several types of tank sounds to choose from. Toucan hobby sells them on eBay and they will provide instructions in English.
Old 04-03-2022, 09:22 PM
  #30  
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Beier cost ls the same as Clark TK80 with far more options and configurability. BUT it don't support Tamiya battling system, so it's usless for Americans and Asians which mostly IR balltes. In Europe on the other hand we focus on realistic driving and look. No mushrooms and bunny-hopping battles
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Old 04-04-2022, 05:25 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by GTORA2 View Post
Do you guys think games like World of Tanks, War Thunder, or Hell Let Loose, if you want multiple people in your crew, have affected the RC tank Hobby? I know my interest in model tank kits, and RC led me to my first RC tank, and I plan on picking up several more, but I have no interest, at all, in the slightest, in battling my RC tanks. I can get a much more exciting, battle on the computer. The RC tanks are more for impressing the Ladies! While no simulation or arcade game can come close to real tank combat, I'd say it can get closer than what limited RC tanks can do. It's funny, the games always have to make the German tanks better than they were, and the American tanks always slowly get nerfed, as the German armor fans cry their thanks are not easy mode (like they assume wrongly they were in real life). I mean, the first three or four King Tigers were lost to a lowly T-34-85 they never even saw.

The main point about the games, even the arcade ones, is they model armor thickness, gun and shell penetration, and different shell types. They include artillery and airpower. Hell Let Loose, and Enlisted feature tanks, infantry, and airplanes working as a team. There is so much going on, trying to make it seem more real, they do a decent job of making it challenging and fun. Player skill makes a difference, but it's also a team game. I know, different animals, but I just don't get the battle appeal with RC tanks. The limitations on the tanks really make it just a remote version of laser tag.

I guess my take is, tank games sell tank model kits, and RC tanks, but probably do not inspire people to battle them.

I would love to get a better electronic setup too, but I just want more options and realism, don't care about battles so much. Not that I would want it removed or not supported.
Yes I also play the RC tanks as well as the MMO games online

They both have their inaccuracies and non-historic applications, but this is done in the name of 'balance' and 'fair play'

The RC tanks have set electronic settings that are designed to replicate some options with fairplay in mind (i.e. a medium tank is a certain number of hits reqardless of protection systems or technology to counter shell types). Matches are pre-agreed upon whether historical period based or custom.

RC tanks is more of a gathering of friends and enthusiasts to do some tank talk and battles where strategies can really be well done

The online games do a better job of utilizing those 'special' tank systems, but in the name of balance, seem to always match unrealistic match-ups that would never have happened historically. And because the 'balancing' happens on periodic updates, the parameters of your tank may change relative to others.

Online is more of a quick fix of entertainment with mostly rough acquaintances where strategy is mostly improvised.

Truth be told if tank battle games were made to be realistic, many would quit after a short time, as most kills would be one-shots from the one who spotted you first.
Old 04-04-2022, 05:36 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by heavyaslead View Post
Yes I also play the RC tanks as well as the MMO games online


Truth be told if tank battle games were made to be realistic, many would quit after a short time, as most kills would be one-shots from the one who spotted you first.
Warthunders Realistic mode is pretty close. I can't tell you how many times I have been one shot.
Old 04-04-2022, 06:45 AM
  #33  
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Quite like the Elmod boards, it’s the ease of setting up how the tank functions in real time. Some people say it’s expensive with all the extras , no need to buy all of the them . Never had a servo circuit blow or have issues with the LEDs as you don’t need to wire in a resistor. The new Fusion X is nice but do we need a multitude of user sounds, functions and lighting combinations , this new board has much more in the way of extra capability. Suppose if you have recovery, bridge laying or bulldozer functions its good. I am quite happy with customising drive and servos with a few lighting options. Best of all is If you need help it’s always available via email.
Old 04-04-2022, 09:57 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by GTORA2 View Post
Warthunders Realistic mode is pretty close. I can't tell you how many times I have been one shot.
Yes, its so frustrating to bring your Maus up against cold war era rocket slingers where 200mm of armor is like paper
Old 04-04-2022, 03:38 PM
  #35  
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I’m one American who doesn’t battle but strives for realistic movement and sound. I now have two Beier boards. One for a Tiger1 and one for an RC Civil War gunboat. I have had Clark and Elmod but nothing comes close to the satisfaction of a Beier. I would place the Elmod Fusion Pro in the second place spot.
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Old 04-06-2022, 12:10 AM
  #36  
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A proper review of the the Bieir board and a review of setting up the tank would be nice. Still think that Elmod is ahead with setting up all the functions. Even has inertia from 0-100% and just a slider to set. Heavy tank or light tank it’s no problem with achieving scale driving characteristics. If you want battle it’s 0% inertia and brake if it’s needed.
Old 04-06-2022, 01:39 AM
  #37  
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Didn't Rad do a rather comprehensive review of the Bieir boards? I remember him posting about them and I know he liked them.

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Old 04-06-2022, 03:01 AM
  #38  
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Hi Crius He done a review but it was mostly about lighting and the sounds. Now having a board with enhanced sound is not much of a game changer as it’s the quality of the speaker and housing that counts. Would be good if we all had1/6 tanks with space for a tweeter, mid range and bass with a matched enclosure to take advantage of the audio. That’s why Tamiya put some thought into improving the audio with a better speaker box.

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Old 04-06-2022, 03:01 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post
We really need a new control board on the market. Something that easily mimics the tamiya protocols with few options to mess up the programming on that will work for beginners or those that want better operation and battle play than henglong but dont need all the advanced set up options of the other boards available.

The DKLM DKTank is quite good but only produced in runs of 10 off an on, in Russia, so...... unknown

The IBU2 Ultimate is un-useable for IR battling. The large inertia programmed into it that you cannot turn off makes it horrible to drive and try to battle. Ivano ruined his product IMHO.

The Clark boards seem to have a lot of problems any more. Nearly everyone in my club has been sending their boards back to Clark, some through the dealer they bought it from, for various failure repairs. Some involving the audio amp some, other issues. They just dont seem very reliable any more. I have two and so far Im lucky.

The other boards that are really fancy and offer lots of options are way overkill and quite costly. Like Elmod and Bier.

Im hoping DKTank will come up and be a sustainable supplied product but who knows at this point.
very strange what you say…. The inertia it can be disable from the program set up or from remote….
I have a lot of Ibu ultimate and I use them for battle without problem (with no inertia) or on realistic tanks (with inertia)…
Old 04-06-2022, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tank79 View Post
very strange what you say…. The inertia it can be disable from the program set up or from remote….
I have a lot of Ibu ultimate and I use them for battle without problem (with no inertia) or on realistic tanks (with inertia)…
I heard a rumor that they fixed that problem but this is the first confirmation I have seen. I think I might have to buy one so I can see for myself.
Old 04-06-2022, 08:01 AM
  #41  
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Interesting….

yes the SD card setup allows you to set inertia to 0 but yet they still had inertia and it would not turn off.
even the maker Ivano in Italy confirmed it had a low level of inertia that could not be removed. Which I thought was stupid and then we had a an argument via email about how a heavy tank actually drives etc. he did not understand my point of prototypical slow tank movement vs how you drive an an IR battle so we got nowhere.

the gentleman in my club with a very nice Abrams used an ultimate after he was told that inertia issue was fixed, I watched him drive it and knew it wasn’t. After a while of him trying to battle it he realized how different it drove and how difficult it was to maneuver around on the field so he just put the tank away and used another one.

I can check with Ian in the Uk at RCTank Electonics if the inertia has been removed but like I said I check in with him about every 6 months and he has continually told me that IBU has no intention of fixing the issue.
Old 04-07-2022, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Crius View Post
Didn't Rad do a rather comprehensive review of the Bieir boards? I remember him posting about them and I know he liked them.
Yes, I did not do one, but two, of the two Beier boards focused in the RC Tanks.
This is for ther SFR 1 D https://radindustries.wordpress.com/...beier-sfr-1-d/
and this is for the cheaper but still great SFR 1 HL https://radindustries.wordpress.com/...eier-sfr-1-hl/ This last one even with running videos and showing how I trigger everything.

Unlike Mr Ronnie says, I do talk about the driving capabilities, removing inertias, throttle curves, similated gears and so on. And also about the audio quality which is MILES ahead than Elmod and most of other competitor boards. I used the same speaker for comparison, and is night and day. Even while editing the sound files with the computer, is another story. I talked with Mr Elmod about this issue and he told me his board is not capable of playing better audio files because chip limit, so there is indeed a massive difference, unless you are deaf, of course.

So yes, I do talk about the sounds (more, several at the same time, and better quality) lights (millions more, fully configureable) and better driving capabilities. Also servo outputs. Add is cheaper than Elmod in top of it. There is not a single point where the Elmod is superior to Beiers except tamiya battle code, but still does not matter, because it is useless for the IR battles due to the inertia, which unlike as Mr Ronnie says, there is no way to fully remove the inertia in the Elmod, even when you set it to 0, it still drives some centimeters more, and still it takes some time to accelerate. We have discused it already, but unless Ronnie has a prototype version that nobody ever in the world has, (and definitelly is not the one is using in his braking Tiger video) nobody has been able to disable those things in the Elmod fusion pro, ever. The board has ports for plugging the apples and is still heng long and taigen compatible, so if you want it tamiya compatible, just write the Beiers and they will implement it.

I don't want to start and argument, and I don't have anything against Mr Elmod and I am not sided with any brand. All those who read my website or me along the years can see I honestly review everything I get from every retailer. Even more, I wish Mr Elmod (or anybody else) releases better boards than Beier, (if that is possible), so I can jump into better things.

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Old 04-07-2022, 01:50 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post

I can check with Ian in the Uk at RCTank Electonics if the inertia has been removed but like I said I check in with him about every 6 months and he has continually told me that IBU has no intention of fixing the issue.
Please post what you hear from him, Rich. I was also under the impression that no matter what you do you can't get rid of all the inertia. This is a real shame because the IBU was a really good board, and much less expensive than some of the others. I still have one green board pro version on the Shelf, but that's earmarked for my 1/6 scale M5 Stuart. If I could find greenboard IBU 2 pros I would buy up all I could find. Unfortunately, the only ones still around may or may not be any good and I'm just not brave enough to take a chance on those. I also still have a tcb, but I never had any luck with those at all.
Old 04-07-2022, 02:08 AM
  #44  
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Rad thinks I have a non standard Elmod board , perhaps I should do reviews. Will post up the video latter, it’s on Bowlmans Elmod next generation thread. The inertia and brake can be combined for one or the other , if you look just focus on the red brake
light , and see the results. As for not wanting the tank to roll a centimetre or so, convert that to the real world and you are talking about braking distance for a tank at less than half a metre.

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Old 04-07-2022, 02:52 AM
  #45  
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The good boards are starting to become expensive , had a look at Beier 299 euros now. Is it like the auto market now, a lack of silicone chips pushing up the prices and low volume sales?

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Old 04-07-2022, 02:54 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by RichJohnson View Post
Interesting….

yes the SD card setup allows you to set inertia to 0 but yet they still had inertia and it would not turn off.
even the maker Ivano in Italy confirmed it had a low level of inertia that could not be removed. Which I thought was stupid and then we had a an argument via email about how a heavy tank actually drives etc. he did not understand my point of prototypical slow tank movement vs how you drive an an IR battle so we got nowhere.

the gentleman in my club with a very nice Abrams used an ultimate after he was told that inertia issue was fixed, I watched him drive it and knew it wasn’t. After a while of him trying to battle it he realized how different it drove and how difficult it was to maneuver around on the field so he just put the tank away and used another one.

I can check with Ian in the Uk at RCTank Electonics if the inertia has been removed but like I said I check in with him about every 6 months and he has continually told me that IBU has no intention of fixing the issue.
in my opinion, the problem is what you want to do with tanks. The Tamiya system allow to do rapid attack tactics and rapid back movements or rapid 45 degrees movements. Some people use Ibu2 board for battle without problem.
But I’m agree that you do competition so use Tamiya.
Old 04-07-2022, 02:57 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by ronnie42 View Post
The good boards are starting to become expensive , had a look at Beier 299 euros now. Is it like the auto market now, a lack of silicone chips pushing up the prices and low volume sales?
this is another problem: the price. I hope in future that Ivano make another board fixing the “problem” of his actual board. We asked him to make a small version for smaller tank but….
Old 04-07-2022, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ronnie42 View Post
Rad thinks I have a non standard Elmod board , perhaps I should do reviews. Will post up the video latter, it’s on Bowlmans Elmod next generation thread. The inertia and brake can be combined for one or the other , if you look just focus on the red brake
light , and see the results. As for not wanting the tank to roll a centimetre or so, convert that to the real world and you are talking about braking distance for a tank at less than half a metre.
Ronnie, please, give up. Sure you can write reviews and you can make a zillion videos showing the brake light working, which indeed, works, but inertia cannot be disabled, not even if you combine it with the brake. Unless Elmod implements a "drop Titanic's anchor" option it does not work in any Elmod board. Contact "Madmike", he makes the sound sets for Elmod and he also told me is not possible to disable it, because that is how the board works with the soundsets and there is nothing we can do. His words, not mine. Besides I am using Elmod products for 5 years, tried everything and never worked, and there is nobody ever, who managed to disable it.

Again, even when the brakes are set to maximum and inertia to minimum, the tanks still rolls way too much, making them unusable for all those who do IR battles. Ask people that go there, I have heard first hand they call the Elmods easy prey and soon the owners end replacing the electronics. Here in this thread you see people experiencing the same issue with IBUs. Still, I don't battle, so I don't care. But still, sometimes I need to have absolute control of my toy, and with Elmod I cannot. I also installed one Elmod in a boat and it was unmaneoubrable (add water inertia plus Elmod inertia, go and figure). I don't care how a tank drives in real life, sometimes I need to disable it, and I think it is not so complicated to understand it.

As a silly example of needing to disable it, was a couple of months ago. We had like 1mm snow, no more than that, so I picked some tanks and the children and we started to "draw" with the tanks over that milimeter of snow. It was absolutelly impossible for me to do it with my Panzer IV with inertia to minimum and brakes to maximum. Then I picked one of the tank from my children, which had an Open panzer inside by the way, and it was a pleasure. That day, my Elmod went to Ebay, I had too much of it. That is the only reason that made me sell it, to be honest.

Another point that I always say, is, if I want inertia I don't even need any aftermarket board. I can have a deep config level just using the radio. Even the cheapest twin ESC can have exactly the same adjustable inertias as the Elmod if you know the how to with the radio, but if the inertia comes from the board and you cannot remove it, there is nothing you can do.

You talk about price, well, have you read both reviews? There is no real need in getting the big Beier unless a heavy tank (I mean a metal 1:6 scale) or so complex that, so far, I have never seen one, so the little version will suit almost everybody and it costs 239. Still very expensive IMHO but cheaper than Elmod, Tamiya, and I believe even than some Clark boards. That makes me return to the main topic, we need more hobby boards... which are cheaper to obtain! lol
Old 04-26-2022, 03:03 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Rad_Schuhart View Post
I fitted Beiers in all my tanks, and I cannot be happier. Sure it does not have tamiya IR battle capabilities,...
You just bought the wrong ( or at the time only available ) model. The Beier SFR-1-D supposedly has IR Battle-Unit capabilities for those that want such a feature.

All of my Models are Tamiya ones with their stock DMD/MF Controllers, but I do own one custom Board made by SGS-Electronic.de for my formerly static Tamiya #36208 Gepard 1A2 in combination with a CANBus like connected Daughterboard reducing the amount of wires coming from the chassis into the turret down to 6 from at least 19 making the use of a Slipring viable. I found it to be the best solution for my build back then but would not exactly recommend it over the Beier SFR-1-D based on my preliminary research as it, unlike the Beier, cannot have an End-user "designed" Model.

A good example would be my ongoing E-100 Project somewhat requiring two Cannon Recoil Servos - Both boards have enough Servo/Motor connections that would support a 2nd cannon but the SGS one does not have a predefined Tank Profile where such a 2nd cannon would come into play and with the End-user not being able of programming such a custom profile ( best you can do is change sounds ) weird Tank models like the E-100 ( with a Maus Turret ), the Maus itself, most WH40K Tanks, a E.F.F. M61 Semovente or a Versuchsträger VT1-2 are unfortunately a NoGo.

Judging the Manual - The Beier on the other hand seems to be fairly open in that regard also allowing you to set custom Servo End Stops - something that would have saved me at least one on my Gepard when the Search Radar Gearbox I purchased for it stopped to early while the Servo was still going like: "I'm not done yet!" thus overloading it and causing a burnout.

That being said though I'm not really sure what the fuzz about needing a new board is about. There seems to be plenty to choose from with the only caveat being them being somewhat costly which makes sense to me as a) there's only so many ppl that would want one such board and b) in order to get a large customer base, you'd obviously would want it to cover as many bases as possible thus requiring the need for extra features beyond just driving in a straight line and doing 360s. If you skimp on any possible feature and someone else sells it people will leave you in the dust and choose the other. If you're contempt with H-L then by all means use them /shrug
Old 04-26-2022, 04:24 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Durahl View Post
...
That being said though I'm not really sure what the fuzz about needing a new board is about. There seems to be plenty to choose from with the only caveat being them being somewhat costly ........

...and therein is your answer young grasshopper. Many, not all in this hobby turn white at the mere mention that an item is worth more than they're
willing or able to pay. Wails of 'not fair, 'not worth it' or 'why does it cost so much' are often the result. I've had several attempts with related business in
this hobby and I'll say we should be happy that anyone can make a go of it. I used to say there's a certain group of 'model people' who eternally are
searching for that museum quality model for $39.95.

When the products are there they don't (or can't) buy them and when they aren't they lament the fact. You really can't win the argument.

One of the greatest problems is this is a niche market within a niche hobby; how many of anything can a seller sell before the market reaches
saturation? The greatest special effects/ battle board of all time would still reach a saturation point.

Jerry
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