Our hobby really needs a new Tank Control Board
05-16-2022, 01:50 AM
#101
I'm not sure, but I believe that you can use a couple of brushless ESCs and some y cables to put brushless motors in just about any tank with any board, can't you? I know Erik once put brushless motors in a taigen tiger one, but I'm not sure about the electronics he used.
05-16-2022, 09:59 AM
#102
This is some info I got from my friend about the board:
"Module based system, sound and ESC controller replaceable/upgradeable.
Connector compatible with taigen and heng long tk 6.0/6.1 tanks.
Current measuring, so motor power can be limited to scale correct power of the tank.
Onboard switch mode 5V3A dc-dc converter, for efficiency.
Additional Aux outputs, 8 lights.
All light outputs have their potentiometer, for fine tuning brightness.
Capabilities of the ESC board (v1.1): Current measuring for power regulation. Back EMF measuring for live rpm reading, used to limit tank top speed, if desired. High current capability (20A continuous, can be modified for up to 60A continuous)
Up to 3S battery operation.
Can be used as a stand alone ESC with RC inputs.
Capabilities of the sound card: Uses teensy 4.0 instead of 3.2 wich is faster. It also uses a Texas Instruments PCM5102a DAC, for true 16bit 44khz audio (teensy 3.2 outputs only 12bits) Output stage EMF filter, no more buzzing/radio interference.
Can be used stand alone and can be used with up to 3S battery operation."
So I guess some sort of brushless ESCs could be fitted instead of the ones present, but I wonder what would be the % of people that uses brushless motors in their tanks, maybe a 0,05%? Keep in mind most tank sales are to children, not to hobbyst, lol. Anyway as Herr Crius noted, it is possible to wire brushless ESCs with Y cables while using normal PPM-PWM receivers. I am planning to use 16CH SBus receiver for having as less wires as possible
My cheap soldering iron died some days ago, but I have even a cheaper one on the way to me that should be arriving tomorrow. Cant wait to start testing it. I will be fitting it in my tamiya king tiger which is carrying Open Panzer electronics since day one, so fitting this should not take too much time.
"Module based system, sound and ESC controller replaceable/upgradeable.
Connector compatible with taigen and heng long tk 6.0/6.1 tanks.
Current measuring, so motor power can be limited to scale correct power of the tank.
Onboard switch mode 5V3A dc-dc converter, for efficiency.
Additional Aux outputs, 8 lights.
All light outputs have their potentiometer, for fine tuning brightness.
Capabilities of the ESC board (v1.1): Current measuring for power regulation. Back EMF measuring for live rpm reading, used to limit tank top speed, if desired. High current capability (20A continuous, can be modified for up to 60A continuous)
Up to 3S battery operation.
Can be used as a stand alone ESC with RC inputs.
Capabilities of the sound card: Uses teensy 4.0 instead of 3.2 wich is faster. It also uses a Texas Instruments PCM5102a DAC, for true 16bit 44khz audio (teensy 3.2 outputs only 12bits) Output stage EMF filter, no more buzzing/radio interference.
Can be used stand alone and can be used with up to 3S battery operation."
So I guess some sort of brushless ESCs could be fitted instead of the ones present, but I wonder what would be the % of people that uses brushless motors in their tanks, maybe a 0,05%? Keep in mind most tank sales are to children, not to hobbyst, lol. Anyway as Herr Crius noted, it is possible to wire brushless ESCs with Y cables while using normal PPM-PWM receivers. I am planning to use 16CH SBus receiver for having as less wires as possible
My cheap soldering iron died some days ago, but I have even a cheaper one on the way to me that should be arriving tomorrow. Cant wait to start testing it. I will be fitting it in my tamiya king tiger which is carrying Open Panzer electronics since day one, so fitting this should not take too much time.
05-16-2022, 10:08 AM
#103
I installed the custom OP Config and took a look at the IR window for you, the guys that IR battle. Among the normal OP battle functions there is a new one called IR ammo type. No idea what it is so far, but Ill investigate
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05-16-2022, 11:14 AM
#104
Ok, I asked him and got a quick reply. "IR ammo type is part of my expanded IR battle system I am working on. You choose your tank and have armor according to your choice and ammo type. My IR receiver then determines whether your armor is penetrated or not. The IR receiver can also determine the direction from which it was hit."
05-16-2022, 11:23 AM
#105
Ok, I asked him and got a quick reply. "IR ammo type is part of my expanded IR battle system I am working on. You choose your tank and have armor according to your choice and ammo type. My IR receiver then determines whether your armor is penetrated or not. The IR receiver can also determine the direction from which it was hit."
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bowlman (05-16-2022)
05-16-2022, 09:20 PM
#108
Thanks. If price will be similar to Beier's I don't know if it makes sense to spend money on a board from an unknown guy when we have the same quality of electronics from an established producer.
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jha13 (05-17-2022)
05-17-2022, 01:38 AM
#109
For me one of the most important things is how easy it is to use. You guys all know that when it comes to computers and programming I'm a real Gomer, so before I buy one of these I'll take a good look at the default settings. That's one of the things that I liked about the ASP and the IBU, the default settings were just fine for me so I didn't have to pull out any hair sitting in front of a computer. I just hook everything up and I'm good to go. That's a very important feature for me.
05-17-2022, 02:11 AM
#110
I am particularly interested in the custom ir battle system. Also, as Crius points out, ease of use is important. Additionally, I like to support small companies just starting out since they are likely to try new things and competition is good.
05-17-2022, 03:52 AM
#111
Kaczor: I understand your point 100%, but I also believe everybody has a start and deserves an oportunity. Didn't the Apple guys start in a garage?
Crius: 'bout the ASP, well, it is true that you don't have to mess with a computer, BUT the ASP is certainly not on the easy side. If you want to trigger all the functions you need an advanced radio programming and radio modding. I must say I love it, and I owe to Kevin a big chunk of what I know today and he discovered a hobby inside the hobby for me, but I remember clearly that for triggering every function in the ASP I had to install four three position switches, a 6 position switch and also program (back in the day) strange things like curves and so on. Also if you want to create sound sets for it, the ASP is the biggest pain in the ass you can imagine. Two SD cards with hundreds of sounds that are related from one card to another, then to use drivesort and so on. I still have gosebumps creating sound sets for it. IMHO I have never seen something as complicated as the ASP for the average user. Kevin used to sell radios too, of course getting the radios already programmed saved guys from frustation, but man, seriously, to squeeze the juice was very hard.
Oldwolf: About the easy of use, this board is very symple, for triggering the functions it only takes a +100 or -100 signal (which means stick or switch full up or full down), so no need to create mixes. You can download the original open panzer software from their website, this is pretty much the same. And also agree with you, the more competition, the better!
Crius: 'bout the ASP, well, it is true that you don't have to mess with a computer, BUT the ASP is certainly not on the easy side. If you want to trigger all the functions you need an advanced radio programming and radio modding. I must say I love it, and I owe to Kevin a big chunk of what I know today and he discovered a hobby inside the hobby for me, but I remember clearly that for triggering every function in the ASP I had to install four three position switches, a 6 position switch and also program (back in the day) strange things like curves and so on. Also if you want to create sound sets for it, the ASP is the biggest pain in the ass you can imagine. Two SD cards with hundreds of sounds that are related from one card to another, then to use drivesort and so on. I still have gosebumps creating sound sets for it. IMHO I have never seen something as complicated as the ASP for the average user. Kevin used to sell radios too, of course getting the radios already programmed saved guys from frustation, but man, seriously, to squeeze the juice was very hard.
Oldwolf: About the easy of use, this board is very symple, for triggering the functions it only takes a +100 or -100 signal (which means stick or switch full up or full down), so no need to create mixes. You can download the original open panzer software from their website, this is pretty much the same. And also agree with you, the more competition, the better!
05-17-2022, 05:09 AM
#112
Rad, I thought you knew that I cheated. I got Kevin to add the switches and set up my 9XR Pro so that when I got everything it was just plug and play and if I ever add another asp all I have to do is install the receiver and bind it to the transmitter and all the functions are already in place. Yeah, I know, that's cheating, and to me that makes it even better. Bwahahaha 
05-17-2022, 01:01 PM
#113
Rad_Schuhart Hewlett Packard guys started in a garage...not Apple... 
But I understand your point.
I gave the Luke a shot with the TCB. I like the TCBs, but I don't LOVE them. They still have some issues of their own inherent to the design. The tank driving control is one of the things that can vary depending on the ESCs you choose and the settings in the board. I have two TCBs running the same config with the same ESCs and both tanks drive differently. I can only break it down to the motors and gearboxes as I have swapped a known good TCB into the funky one and the behavior of the tank doesn't change. The Taigen black 390 motors on stock steel HL gearboxes runs much better than the Hooben 380 motors on their gearbox. The 390 based tank will make banking turns while the other one won't no matter what settings I've changed. I may end up moving the TCBs to all my large scale tanks so I can buy pass the motor control functions of the TCB. My larger ESCs that handle 80A and up don't like being controlled by the TCB. They have much better control being directly connected to the RX. I think this new control board with built in ESCs would solve this issue I'm personally having with the TCB. I remain optimistic that it can become and option in the future. I may take a chance on the TK16 to see if it will work in some of my less used tanks.
But I understand your point. I gave the Luke a shot with the TCB. I like the TCBs, but I don't LOVE them. They still have some issues of their own inherent to the design. The tank driving control is one of the things that can vary depending on the ESCs you choose and the settings in the board. I have two TCBs running the same config with the same ESCs and both tanks drive differently. I can only break it down to the motors and gearboxes as I have swapped a known good TCB into the funky one and the behavior of the tank doesn't change. The Taigen black 390 motors on stock steel HL gearboxes runs much better than the Hooben 380 motors on their gearbox. The 390 based tank will make banking turns while the other one won't no matter what settings I've changed. I may end up moving the TCBs to all my large scale tanks so I can buy pass the motor control functions of the TCB. My larger ESCs that handle 80A and up don't like being controlled by the TCB. They have much better control being directly connected to the RX. I think this new control board with built in ESCs would solve this issue I'm personally having with the TCB. I remain optimistic that it can become and option in the future. I may take a chance on the TK16 to see if it will work in some of my less used tanks.
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herrmill (05-17-2022)
05-17-2022, 10:05 PM
#114
Rad, I thought you knew that I cheated. I got Kevin to add the switches and set up my 9XR Pro so that when I got everything it was just plug and play and if I ever add another asp all I have to do is install the receiver and bind it to the transmitter and all the functions are already in place. Yeah, I know, that's cheating, and to me that makes it even better. Bwahahaha
Rad_Schuhart Hewlett Packard guys started in a garage...not Apple... But I understand your point..
But I understand your point..I heard you experiencing some issues with the ESCs in the TCB. I believe even when you buy two times the same item (ESC and motors) there are usually some small differences, and that might be the thing you are experiencing. About your ESCs not liking the TCB, well, it does not surprise me too much. Some months ago I was building a toy and man, I could not make the TBS mini work. I pulled my hair and brought me to real desperation. After weeks trying everything, it ended to be the ESC inferfiering with the soundcard. It never happened to me before, neither I have heard of anybody with the same problem, but really happened this time. I tested that ESC with 5 different sound cards, and it did not work with any of them. So yes, incompatibility happens.
In this newer board there should not be problems like that, because the ESCs are integrated, of course.
So far I have installed it in a Tamiya King tiger and I am reporting him everything I believe can be improved, corrected or added to the manual. So far nothing hardware related but easy code changes. Not sure how much time it will take me to have the review ready, but I am on it.
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bowlman (05-18-2022)
06-11-2022, 12:27 AM
#115
Well, the board has been reviewed, pictures have been taken, and opinion has been written. The only thing left is a video. Luckily on the 18th I have a RC meeting in a super cool scale diorama, so I will try to record a nice video and then I will publish it in my website. I will keep you updated!
06-21-2022, 12:48 PM
#117
Well what we see here in the US is IBU2 Ultimate and Clark and now DKTank. Elmod is here but rarely seen.
IBU2 ultimate still has its inertia issue making it useless or very difficult to battle.
DKTank is in its infancy with about 30 boards out there now and I have 5 and love them so far. But they have supply problems.
Bier and Elmod are cool but just too much tech and too costly for most of us.
And then there is Clark. I’m now going to step into it here….. Clark is doing more to kill my hobby than anyone.
most of my club in San Diego area is using HL and Clark, A lot of Clark. From 40s to 80s some channelized and some Sbus.
Nearly all of their Clark tanks are dead now. There is a theme of several common malfunctions from tank won’t go one direction any more to it takes one hit and flat dies to it takes one hit and goes invulnerable and some other quirks as well as burning up too. I have members that have spent big money on metal hull Abrams and leopards and such and other expensive taigens and then their boards fail. One very astute RC person had 3 Clark tanks fail at our last battle all for different reasons . He’s about to give up the hobby now because he already has 2 80s sent in for repair.
I know what your thinking this must be operator error but I have looked at these tanks and even helped set up a few of them. There is no operator error involved in most of them, save the ones that were stalling out from retaining the HL speaker which overloads the audio amp and then shuts the board down and that was corrected.
So we held our battle with a handful of members that could not come because their tank boards had already failed and they don’t have operational tanks yet, and then we had the guy who lost 3 in one day.
Im at the point I am now telling people just use the HL system and stick with it, it likely won’t fail. And don’t by Clark boards. I have two myself, an old 24 in my Stewart and a 40 in my m32 which has not had much use but I’m kinda expecting it to develop problems when I do.
it’s not a matter of being cheap, most of my club is willing to shell out 200 bucks for a board. Let’s face it RC tanks used to be even more expensive but they still ain’t cheap. The problem is like you guys said the engineers aren’t listeninng to their customers. IBU refuses to fix his code and get rid of the inertia, which I know personally caused 5 club members to return their boards as intolerable driving conditions. And it lost him customers. His problem I guess. You guys complain about bier not tweeting to be better for users. And Clark, who knows what his problem is but I have heard that Solie the dealer complained to Clark about his failures so much Clark shut him down and he switched over to IBU….LOL.
I was happy with the old IBU2 base. It did everything I wanted. Then they had to go an “improve it”. Now I found the DKT tank and I have high hopes for him being able to flood the market. I got some nice comments on how my m51 sounded at our last battle (DKTank). I also noticed how much better it drives over my old IBU2 EZ8. Feels like it has a more powerful ESC or something.
IBU2 ultimate still has its inertia issue making it useless or very difficult to battle.
DKTank is in its infancy with about 30 boards out there now and I have 5 and love them so far. But they have supply problems.
Bier and Elmod are cool but just too much tech and too costly for most of us.
And then there is Clark. I’m now going to step into it here….. Clark is doing more to kill my hobby than anyone.
most of my club in San Diego area is using HL and Clark, A lot of Clark. From 40s to 80s some channelized and some Sbus.
Nearly all of their Clark tanks are dead now. There is a theme of several common malfunctions from tank won’t go one direction any more to it takes one hit and flat dies to it takes one hit and goes invulnerable and some other quirks as well as burning up too. I have members that have spent big money on metal hull Abrams and leopards and such and other expensive taigens and then their boards fail. One very astute RC person had 3 Clark tanks fail at our last battle all for different reasons . He’s about to give up the hobby now because he already has 2 80s sent in for repair.
I know what your thinking this must be operator error but I have looked at these tanks and even helped set up a few of them. There is no operator error involved in most of them, save the ones that were stalling out from retaining the HL speaker which overloads the audio amp and then shuts the board down and that was corrected.
So we held our battle with a handful of members that could not come because their tank boards had already failed and they don’t have operational tanks yet, and then we had the guy who lost 3 in one day.
Im at the point I am now telling people just use the HL system and stick with it, it likely won’t fail. And don’t by Clark boards. I have two myself, an old 24 in my Stewart and a 40 in my m32 which has not had much use but I’m kinda expecting it to develop problems when I do.
it’s not a matter of being cheap, most of my club is willing to shell out 200 bucks for a board. Let’s face it RC tanks used to be even more expensive but they still ain’t cheap. The problem is like you guys said the engineers aren’t listeninng to their customers. IBU refuses to fix his code and get rid of the inertia, which I know personally caused 5 club members to return their boards as intolerable driving conditions. And it lost him customers. His problem I guess. You guys complain about bier not tweeting to be better for users. And Clark, who knows what his problem is but I have heard that Solie the dealer complained to Clark about his failures so much Clark shut him down and he switched over to IBU….LOL.
I was happy with the old IBU2 base. It did everything I wanted. Then they had to go an “improve it”. Now I found the DKT tank and I have high hopes for him being able to flood the market. I got some nice comments on how my m51 sounded at our last battle (DKTank). I also noticed how much better it drives over my old IBU2 EZ8. Feels like it has a more powerful ESC or something.
That would be Stanlley , not me ( Stian) :-) I still do a little clark boards , and make new soundsets now and then
06-21-2022, 03:31 PM
#118
This discussion of the various boards has me somewhat puzzled over the way things have turned out. While I have quite a few, a lot actually of 1/16
tanks, halftracks and others I've not been very active in the scale for quite a few years.I should probably sell most of them if I had any common sense.
I find it distressing to say the least to hear of the difficulties with Clark products because they seemed so promising when I first
learned of them quite a few years ago and Clark seemed to really have deep roots in the hobby.
As many of you recall I had a brief and not very successful go marketing IBU boards here in the states, when the IBU2 Base, IBU2 Pro and
the initial IBU3 were the product lineup. My approach was to try to sell the boards for rock bottom prices and still be able to at least break even
however there were so many combinations of rc system, board settings and connection possibilities I was running ragged trying to keep up. In
theory they were simple to use but by the time the exploding variations of rc systems with varied pulse widths and protocol variations were in the mix I'd
had it. Plus scuttlebutt that many of my boards were damaged during transit through US Customs was the nail in the coffin. I was spending more
time running trouble shooting for what was supposed to be a relatively quiet extension to my hobby (I'd begun about a year plus out from retirement from my programming job) but I was spending more time with it, or could have, than my professional job. I have to say many times I felt a little disconnected from the
manufacturer once I'd spent a large outlay for the minimum stock. Sure support was there but the need nearly turned into a constant one and I have no doubt I
quickly wore out the welcome mat. I find it sad that the manufacturer doesn't seem to have responded to customer needs, unless I'm reading what I see incorrectly.
I didn't quite lose my shirt but it was very dodgy and I still have quite a few IBU2 B&P boards that I'll never sell quite honestly because I don't want the hassle.It just
wasn't worth it.
So to hear 5 years on everyone is still looking for the board is sad. I would have hoped that enough was learned from all that came before that there would be
one manufacturer that would just get it besides Tamiya.
Several changes have happened to me over that last years to make me realize while I still love this overall hobby I've been into for the better part of 47 years
I've got fewer years in front than behind me. I don't want to fight it any more, no more making everything piece by piece as I've done with 1/10 scale, no fighting
disparate electronics systems if I want to go outside the Tamiya box; this and the loss of several key manufacturers of parts pushed me over the edge to go to 1/6 scale
namely Armortek because if I want to I can build strictly 'out of the box'. I realize for any number of reasons this isn't for everyone and they are big monsters but as I've said no more scrambling , scratching and fighting for all the bits I need...
Just my 2 cents, the rambling of an old guy.
Jerry
tanks, halftracks and others I've not been very active in the scale for quite a few years.I should probably sell most of them if I had any common sense.
I find it distressing to say the least to hear of the difficulties with Clark products because they seemed so promising when I first
learned of them quite a few years ago and Clark seemed to really have deep roots in the hobby.
As many of you recall I had a brief and not very successful go marketing IBU boards here in the states, when the IBU2 Base, IBU2 Pro and
the initial IBU3 were the product lineup. My approach was to try to sell the boards for rock bottom prices and still be able to at least break even
however there were so many combinations of rc system, board settings and connection possibilities I was running ragged trying to keep up. In
theory they were simple to use but by the time the exploding variations of rc systems with varied pulse widths and protocol variations were in the mix I'd
had it. Plus scuttlebutt that many of my boards were damaged during transit through US Customs was the nail in the coffin. I was spending more
time running trouble shooting for what was supposed to be a relatively quiet extension to my hobby (I'd begun about a year plus out from retirement from my programming job) but I was spending more time with it, or could have, than my professional job. I have to say many times I felt a little disconnected from the
manufacturer once I'd spent a large outlay for the minimum stock. Sure support was there but the need nearly turned into a constant one and I have no doubt I
quickly wore out the welcome mat. I find it sad that the manufacturer doesn't seem to have responded to customer needs, unless I'm reading what I see incorrectly.
I didn't quite lose my shirt but it was very dodgy and I still have quite a few IBU2 B&P boards that I'll never sell quite honestly because I don't want the hassle.It just
wasn't worth it.
So to hear 5 years on everyone is still looking for the board is sad. I would have hoped that enough was learned from all that came before that there would be
one manufacturer that would just get it besides Tamiya.
Several changes have happened to me over that last years to make me realize while I still love this overall hobby I've been into for the better part of 47 years
I've got fewer years in front than behind me. I don't want to fight it any more, no more making everything piece by piece as I've done with 1/10 scale, no fighting
disparate electronics systems if I want to go outside the Tamiya box; this and the loss of several key manufacturers of parts pushed me over the edge to go to 1/6 scale
namely Armortek because if I want to I can build strictly 'out of the box'. I realize for any number of reasons this isn't for everyone and they are big monsters but as I've said no more scrambling , scratching and fighting for all the bits I need...
Just my 2 cents, the rambling of an old guy.
Jerry
06-23-2022, 08:34 AM
#119
Thread Starter
Jerry the truth is with IBU Ivano will not listen to us. Both Ian (RCTankelectrincs) and Myself have emailed with him repeatedly to fix his code on the ultimate to remove the inertia and he initially agreed to but repeated check in emails and dragging on a few years of him ignoring the issue both of us have given up. Ian still markets them, I won’t buy them and sold the two I had with a disclaimer.
with so many ibu tanks I was an expert and set up many others. I was quite sad to see what happened with the product as I really felt it was the best.
Clark as far as I know they used to be ok. But what I have seen over the last couple years, there is no reliability in the product other than sending them back for repair.
Really, I hate to say it, Tamiya and Henglong are the reliable products, but henglong is not quite complaint on the battle side yet and still has crappy radios that can’t be configured for left hand drive. But their 6.0 6.1 systems are bullet proof and quite good. If I could just jumper it to my
DX8 radio….
with so many ibu tanks I was an expert and set up many others. I was quite sad to see what happened with the product as I really felt it was the best.
Clark as far as I know they used to be ok. But what I have seen over the last couple years, there is no reliability in the product other than sending them back for repair.
Really, I hate to say it, Tamiya and Henglong are the reliable products, but henglong is not quite complaint on the battle side yet and still has crappy radios that can’t be configured for left hand drive. But their 6.0 6.1 systems are bullet proof and quite good. If I could just jumper it to my
DX8 radio….
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bowlman (06-23-2022)
06-23-2022, 11:44 AM
#120
Well, I got the parcel with the new board today and the manual via email. It will take me two weeks to test every function and to write in my website, but I am on it. It seems to have every function we might want, including 24 user sounds and... 8 servo outputs! I wonder who could need so many servos ports, but for those needing them, here they are.
Board seems robust, and arrived with a 3D printed case.
Board seems robust, and arrived with a 3D printed case.
So it will ether go into a T72 or a T55 I've got to just finish the turret with paint and it will set to go for electronics.
I'm leaning to the T55 just have to see the fit .
Thanks
Jimmy
06-23-2022, 12:08 PM
#121
I'll be looking forward to this one, Jimmy. How it turns out for you will determine if I buy one (I might even try for a deal on two or three). I'm hoping you'll test all the battle functions against your other tanks to see how well it does for things like range and accuracy. If it turns out to be as good as we hope it is I have both a Tiger I and a Tiger II that are already set up for IR with flash and all the good stuff, they just need a good board to bring them to life. 
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bowlman (06-23-2022)
06-26-2022, 11:57 AM
#123
I have an IBU3 in my Abrams and it works great. It's never failed me. With the IBU3, I can set the inertia curve using a graph on my computer. From zero to heavy inertia with infinite choices, and I can it change it anytime. I don't know why they quit making that board. My only complaint would be that the sounds could be improved.
06-26-2022, 09:56 PM
#124
I have an IBU3 in my Abrams and it works great. It's never failed me. With the IBU3, I can set the inertia curve using a graph on my computer. From zero to heavy inertia with infinite choices, and I can it change it anytime. I don't know why they quit making that board. My only complaint would be that the sounds could be improved.
