Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Cars, Buggies, Trucks, Tanks and more > RC Tanks
Reload this Page >

HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Notices
RC Tanks Discuss all aspects of rc tank building and driving here!

HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Old 03-04-2009, 02:39 PM
  #1  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Hi All

I was getting fed up with my Jagdpanthers dropped front every time I tried to run it with metal tracks so decided to try and see what can be done. While pulling it apart I noticed the suspension on the front wheel was stronger than the ones behind it and when I got into the actual springs you can see why. The front spring is made of thicker wire and is bigger and stronger as a result. You can see this in the photos.

Now all I need to do is decide on the best way to sort it. I could drill new holes for the spring mounting on the hull but further round so there is more tension on the stock ones or try and source stronger springs if I can find any. Has anybody else done anything yet with their setup?

cheers
Gorehound
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ge96761.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	39.5 KB
ID:	1150286   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hc94151.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	47.6 KB
ID:	1150287  
Old 03-04-2009, 03:06 PM
  #2  
Perry S.
 
Perry S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Posts: 2,124
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

all three look the same diameter within tolerances to me. Probably just my eyes. What do they measure?
Old 03-04-2009, 03:11 PM
  #3  
Wozwasnt
 
Wozwasnt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,409
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

2nd pic the one on the right looks thicker.


Now all I need to do is decide on the best way to sort it. I could drill new holes for the spring mounting on the hull but further round so there is more tension on the stock ones or try and source stronger springs if I can find any. Has anybody else done anything yet with their setup?
Thats what most people do with their Tigers.
Old 03-04-2009, 03:16 PM
  #4  
Panzerfaust77
Senior Member
 
Panzerfaust77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NorwichNorfolk, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

I have this problem with my Tiger. Thanks for the tip!
Old 03-04-2009, 03:32 PM
  #5  
dyeager535
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Can you bend the "long" leg of the spring to get more tension without drilling?

Many times spring steel won't take that abuse, but if those will, cleaner than re-drilling.

Optimum would be to simply replace all the springs I'd think?
Old 03-04-2009, 05:14 PM
  #6  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Hi

Yes, the one on the right is thicker and has stronger spring to it.

Old 03-04-2009, 05:16 PM
  #7  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Hi

I would rather not start bending them plus I don't think it will actually make any difference as the tension on the spring itself will not be much greater.

Not sure where I would get stronger springs like the thicker one either.

Drilling one extra small hole will make little difference and if it does not work I can always revert back to standard. If I start messing about with the actual spring itself I could knacker it all together and be left with nothing. I will have a better look around but it would be an ideal upgrade for some enterprising seller to corner in on

cheers
Gorehound
Old 03-04-2009, 05:24 PM
  #8  
Panther G
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Florence, NJ
Posts: 5,531
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

If you could use a longer arm shaft and extend it into the lower hull you could add a lever arm and spring inside like that on a WSN T-34. you could make it adjustable with a screw to add or lessn tention on the spring. i dont think it would be hard to do, and this is what i would at least give a try.
Old 03-04-2009, 05:35 PM
  #9  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

I wondered about that myslef but at the front where the suspension problem is worst there is no room inside the hull to do this as the gearboxes are in the way []

cheers
Gorehound
Old 03-04-2009, 06:44 PM
  #10  
dyeager535
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

I noticed that my fairly recent HL Panzer III had stiffer springs at each corner, partially due to the shocks I assume, but didn't think to look at the springs themselves.

Perhaps they have done the same with the Jagdpanther...have you checked the other three corners?
Old 03-04-2009, 06:49 PM
  #11  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Well I just went for it and redrilled the holes for the spring location points. I did them about a third of the way back round from the original hole and then remounted everything. Hey Presto, my Jagdpanther is not limp any more even with a set of Impact tracks fitted and these things are heavy.

Also greased up all the wheel spindles as they look like they will wear quickly without grease. I may look at fitting bearings or bushes later but want to get on with some other areas first. Next up will be looking to see if I can correct the lower front hull angle but with the standard gearboxes this will not be possible. The boxes themselves are OK but the final drive has a large cog and that protrudes quite a bit. I will see what the other HL boxes look like but do not want to go to the expense of Tam ones, especially when I am already fitting a DMD and MF unit from one of my old Tigers. If I spend too much more I may as well have gone for the Tam one in the first place.

cheers
Gorehound
Old 03-04-2009, 08:40 PM
  #12  
YHR
Senior Member
 
YHR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Grande Prairie, AB, CANADA
Posts: 8,976
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.


ORIGINAL: gorehound

Well I just went for it and redrilled the holes for the spring location points. I did them about a third of the way back round from the original hole and then remounted everything. Hey Presto, my Jagdpanther is not limp any more even with a set of Impact tracks fitted and these things are heavy.

Also greased up all the wheel spindles as they look like they will wear quickly without grease. I may look at fitting bearings or bushes later but want to get on with some other areas first. Next up will be looking to see if I can correct the lower front hull angle but with the standard gearboxes this will not be possible. The boxes themselves are OK but the final drive has a large cog and that protrudes quite a bit. I will see what the other HL boxes look like but do not want to go to the expense of Tam ones, especially when I am already fitting a DMD and MF unit from one of my old Tigers. If I spend too much more I may as well have gone for the Tam one in the first place.

cheers
Gorehound

Metal tracks should have zero effect on the sprung weight of a tank.
Old 03-04-2009, 09:04 PM
  #13  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

They sagged even worse with the heavy metal before I sorted the springs out although they were awful even with the plastic tracks. Not sure exactly why the metal made it worse but the only thing could be that the front sprocket is off the ground and sits higher than the road wheels. The weight this carried was increased with the additional weight on top of it with the heavy metal tracks and this would add to the pressure on the front wheels causing the drop. You would not add to the unsprung weight on the road wheels themselves but the net effect of the heavier drive sprocket would overload the already stressed front one or two springs either side.

The main thing is it is now sorted and runs well.
Old 03-05-2009, 01:44 PM
  #14  
Captainbertie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FleetHampshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Hi Gorehound,

I am doing exactly as you have at the moment........drilled extra holes a third extra round
to increase tension..........it does work.......as for the gearboxes, they will fit if you grind off the
front panel near the sprocket a touch and raise the gearboxes up to the correct position.......this part of the Jagd is still quite wrong in my view......I have bee nconcentrating on correcting the fron angle and gearboxes and am nearly there.......will post pickies soon.......

Cheers

CaptB
Old 03-05-2009, 04:40 PM
  #15  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Hi CaptB

Thanks for the tip on the gearboxes. I thought about trimming the extra material from the inside edge of each gearbox but the final cog meant it was pointless as it still stuck out too far to correct the angle. I will try raising the gearboxes as you say and then get the hacksaw out to that front lower panel. How far did you raise your ones? Also, I wondered about the motors too as I have a spare set of white cps that I know run slower than the black caps but the Jagd ones have no caps so I do not know what their speed it in relation to the other two types. Do you know?

On the suspension spring mod, it works very well and sorts the problem out completely without having to do any major surgery.

All in all though this is a damn good effort by HL despite the odd niggle and is a fantastic basis for getting a well sorted machine with a little time and patience.

cheers
Gorehound
Old 03-05-2009, 06:36 PM
  #16  
SteelFist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: brighon, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.


ORIGINAL: gorehound

Well I just went for it and redrilled the holes for the spring location points. I did them about a third of the way back round from the original hole and then remounted everything. Hey Presto, my Jagdpanther is not limp any more even with a set of Impact tracks fitted and these things are heavy.

Also greased up all the wheel spindles as they look like they will wear quickly without grease. I may look at fitting bearings or bushes later but want to get on with some other areas first. Next up will be looking to see if I can correct the lower front hull angle but with the standard gearboxes this will not be possible. The boxes themselves are OK but the final drive has a large cog and that protrudes quite a bit. I will see what the other HL boxes look like but do not want to go to the expense of Tam ones, especially when I am already fitting a DMD and MF unit from one of my old Tigers. If I spend too much more I may as well have gone for the Tam one in the first place.

cheers
Gorehound
Any chance of posting some pics of where you re- drilled the spring location points.
Old 03-05-2009, 07:27 PM
  #17  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Hi

Sorry, I should have taken some at the time I did the work but it is all back together now and I did not take any.

I have drawn a black dot on one of the original pics to show where they go though if this is of any help. I drilled a small hole about the same diameter as the spring locating tab and just pushed them back in about a third of a turn anti-clockwise from their original position. I did every axle in the end, not just the front ones as I wanted to stiffen the whole thing up to take the Tam electrics and some other add ons.

cheers
Gorehound
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv65129.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	48.6 KB
ID:	1151029  
Old 03-06-2009, 02:08 PM
  #18  
Captainbertie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FleetHampshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Hi Gorehound,

I cheated a little by copying a Tamiya Panther chassis so it was easy........should be 5mm up and 3mm forward.......this is not exact but it puts the gearboxes as near to damn it correct........lean them back a little too, a few degrees is good enough......the most important
thin is to get that front lower hull angle right and mine is 'cock on'...........I've just sprayed mine
with primer and will post pickies soon.......another tip: I used a tamiya panther bogey wheel
set and fixed them in the correct place on the gearbox housings........works great..........with regard to the motors, I'm not sure but since I am putting metal tracks on it anyway, I think that will slow it down enough...........keep going and cheers.......

CaptB(Geoff)
Old 03-06-2009, 05:07 PM
  #19  
ostketten
Senior Member
 
ostketten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: , MD
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Just received my HL Jagdpanther last week, I only had it out of the box long enough for a cursory inspection and test run before I send it off for some custom paintwork, but the one thing that caught my attention immediately was how soft and "spongey" the suspension seems compared to my other HL tanks.... Since I won't be running metal tracks anyway, and I don't typically run my tanks really "hard" over exceptionally rough terrain, hopefully this won't be a problem for me, but the soft suspension was readily apparent right out of the box.
Old 03-06-2009, 05:41 PM
  #20  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Even without metal tracks my one was so soggy it sat face down every time she was run, hard or otherwise.
Old 03-07-2009, 04:57 AM
  #21  
SteelFist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: brighon, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Thanks for the pics.
Old 03-07-2009, 11:14 AM
  #22  
gorehound
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HighlandsScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

Suspension completed and front hull\gearbox placement mod well under way now. I used gearbox mounts for a Tamiya unit that I had lying around and mounted them in the same manner as a Tam Tiger or such like with the brass mounting bolts\spacers. Then cut of the front of the hull and am in the process of making up a new front plate. The angle may not be quite as steep as the real thing but it is very close and should look fine when completed.

I will post more pics once finished the mods but here are some from the current build. I will get this mod done and then get back onto finishing my Tam King Tiger as I got distracted from it with the Jagdpanther

Cheers
Gorehound
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Jh14852.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	48.9 KB
ID:	1152228   Click image for larger version

Name:	Sn42280.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	59.4 KB
ID:	1152229   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fk17262.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	71.1 KB
ID:	1152230  
Old 03-07-2009, 05:37 PM
  #23  
Alan123
 
Alan123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bremen, GERMANY
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

HAs anyone posted pictures of a HL JP upper hull mounted on a Tamiya Panther chassis?

Does it fit?

For anyone with a tamiya Panther it makes for a cheap addon, this is one of my future projects, a changeable top for my panther.

Cheers

AL
Old 03-07-2009, 07:29 PM
  #24  
Panther G
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Florence, NJ
Posts: 5,531
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: HL Jagdpanther Suspension - Found the problem, Now to find a cure.

I still believe it would be possible to add a spring in side the hull to a lever attatched to the suspention arm. You could actually connect the spring to the gearbox it self. i'll do a mockup on and old panther hull I have and see what turns up.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.