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Tank Museum message
I just got a message from the Tank Museum PX Gift Shop stating that Tamiya is discontinueing the older Tiger I kit although the new upgraded Tiger I will still be available. What is interesting is that they said that this November or February of next year the Tamiya representative might be discussing a possible new releasefor some time in 2013. Will this be a dreamed of "new tank" or just an upgraded version of something we already have? Hope someone with contact within Tamiya can find out. Six months to wait is like forever. jot
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RE: Tank Museum message
Well, perhaps tamiya has had something interesting in the works for some time, and simply re-released the old kits, while they were getting the new beast ready for us. Hmmm....
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I'm sorry, but don't hold your breath on that! LOL
Herman |
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Herman, maybe they will bring out a DD Sherman :)
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I agree....probably a load of S%^T knowing Tamiya...more then likelyjust a slight re-hash of an exisiting kit(as usual)......or at the most, a new kit of a 1/16 tank that already exist from another manufacturer(IE..T-34,PIII,PIV,etc.).....http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../msn/tired.gif
ORIGINAL: Green Amphibian I'm sorry, but don't hold your breath on that! LOL Herman |
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Tamiya t-34 would probably be very well received.....
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Almost any NEW tank would be well received. I do not think that any manufacturer would go through the hassles of making an operational DD Sherman. That is strictly left to those of us that have reduced mental facilities, such as myself. LOL
Herman |
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So the "super Sherman" was a bit of a let down, but even that Was a fairly contraversial desision even within Tamiya. The current range of tanks they offer is really diverse. Not really sure where all your vitriol comes from dirtybird but in this case at least it's pretty unfounded
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All they said was that they would make an announcement concerning new tanks. NOT that they where announcing " A New Tank"
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In that case Greg, maybe the announcement is "no new tanks...EVER! LOL
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could be more kit bash time and looking at people who cut out hulls from plastic card.
Jimmy |
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I'd be surprised if they came out with anything significant. I hope they do, but I doubt it. That's not Tamiya bashing, I love the company.
The last kit I bought from them was a 1/48 Fieseler Storch (photo below). The kit lists at $71 and disappeared off the shelves, most places couldn't keep them in stock. It doesn't move, no motors, just some precut masks and photo etch. The box is about a foot long, two inches thick. Now look at one of their last 1/16 RC tanks. List is $1400, box is huge. What would a shop/business owner prefer on his shelf or store room? |
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rumors have it that tamiya is in the process of stopping the production of all 1/16 tanks, as china's 1/16 tanks are taking up tam's sales and also the 1/16 was and has never been a good profitable category in the first place.
It was just Mr. Tamiya's personal preference. The actual sales figures overrules his preference, I guess. If you see the 1/35 2.4Ghz IR tanks, there are no new additions either. |
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As always with things Tamiya it stirs up a passion in us.
I just received the Leopard 1 static tank. I am thankful for it, but their list price on this thing is absolutely crazy. Even at the discounted price from the AAF you are paying a lot for what you get. If Tamiya chooses to abandon 1/16 scale tanks, they need to look inwardly and see what went wrong. There is a market out there, and they should have got creative on how they marketed their product. A little less costly, and perhaps the ability to purchase a tank without the electronics ,might have increased sales and spread the tooling cost over more units. I hear the latest HL ZTZ is a sales failure as well. Nice tank, not much interest. How many guys were pounding the drum about a Chineese ZTZ????. How many guys are pounding the drum for another Tiger or King Tiger.?????? And yet all the marketers are giving us the same things over an over and wonder why sales are falling???? How many ways can you package a Tiger before people have had enough. Metal this or that maybe but at the end of the day iti s still a Tiger or King Tiger. DUH A British WWII tank or more Soviet WWII armor would sell, but no one is listening to the market place. Instead they blindly plow along giving us things no one needs or wants, and claim dwidling sales and lack of interst as the reason. A T-34, IS2, Comet, Cromwell, Valentine, Hellcat, Hetzer etc would outsell another KT release. Nope, no one listens and they just plow along until the sales number justify them abandoning the line. Modern armour, How about a $500 Challenger, Abrams, Leopard 2, T80 I wonder how many Hobben T-55 are kicking aorund unsold??? Not many would be my guess, and that was a problematic release with quality contol issue on the injection side of things, with poor or no electronics.. I am not denying it is a pile of money to produce one of these things. All the more reason to listen to the market and produce something they want. Lets hope if there is an annoucement by Tamiya,( same applies to Heng Long) it is over something we have been crying for. If it is any of the tanks I have mentioned earlier, they will get my money. If it is a Panzer III, or a different version of the Tiger, they won't see a dime. |
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lets pray for a ABRAMS!
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I am still hopeful for a w/o electronics pkg. I love Dan's dbc/benedini, and the SLU, and Elmod. Installing that in a heng long makes it a decent tank, but put it in a real suspension tamiya and it would be incredible. Now you could get an asiatam hull for some of the tanks, but then that defeats the purpose of saving money. Although it does enhance the heng longs tremendously, and Joe can attest to that.
So Mr Tamiya.......release tamiya's w/o elec. Cheers Wade |
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ORIGINAL: CCC2012 lets pray for a ABRAMS! Keep praying Pilgrim |
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I think that the advent of computer controled cutting machines that can produce injection molds and high quality parts from metal or plastic could be a game changer. What Tamiya does have is a line of 1/35 scale tank kits with drawings, parts worked out for fit, assembly instructions and historical background information. The programs exist to change the scales for these tanks and produce the basic parts for any scale. . Just as the Germans, Americans, Russians, etc used chassis from one tank to build lots of different tanks and TDs Tamiya could use the same concept. They have a number of fine metal chassis just waiting for them to produce the shells for different TDs and tanks.. There are a number of small companies already making special parts for tanks and Japanese industry has a history of farming out sub assemblies that can add the expensive details. I think that what makes the Tamiya tanks the best out of the box runners is their quality metal chassis and good electronics. The Tamiya base module and a few small collaborators could net us a bunch of new tanks. Probably just a dream best left to kit bashers. jot
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ORIGINAL: Merganser The programs exist to change the scales for these tanks and produce the basic parts for any scale. Which programs would those be? I am no expert and I don't know all the details but I believe it's more involved that simply making everything larger. Jerry |
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ORIGINAL: Merganser Ithink that the advent of computer controled cutting machines that can produce injection molds and high quality parts from metal or plastic could be a game changer. Perry <br type="_moz" /> |
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ORIGINAL: rivetcounter ORIGINAL: CCC2012 lets pray for a ABRAMS! Keep praying Pilgrim |
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Mold technology has changed a lot recently and molds are better and cheaper to make. DML is the living embodiment of it. They took on different chassis and set up a system that reuses many of the same parts. They did serious damage to Tamiya's market share in 1/35 and now have been going after the 1/48. They've become the industry leader for military static kits relatively quickly. Tamiya is still king with ships, but that's where they started so it's important.
I really don't think it's matter of being able to produce kits, it's the market. With LHSs having a tough time in general, and online shops relying on shipping costs, do you want to sink $700-800 (wholesale) into one big box you hope to sell, or buy 40 smaller $20 kits that are easier to store and ship. If they don't sell, they won't make them. As for the wish lists, Italeri releases a Semovente and has modest sales. DML releases an expensive Wittmann Tiger I (probably their 20th variant) and sells out the whole run in presales. DML does well because they are flexible and go with short runs to drive buzz. Seriously, at one point people would preorder 5 or so, flip 4 immediately for 2 or 3 times what they paid. No Autoblinda in the world could create that type of hype. You can only do that with variants, and if you are talking Cromwells, etc, it's a dead end. The Char B1 Bis was a good release and well anticipated, but died off quickly. It just the nature of the beast, German outsells all other 10:1. |
RE: Tank Museum message
ORIGINAL: ausf Mold technology has changed a lot recently and molds are better and cheaper to make. DML is the living embodiment of it. They took on different chassis and set up a system that reuses many of the same parts. They did serious damage to Tamiya's market share in 1/35 and now have been going after the 1/48. They've become the industry leader for military static kits relatively quickly. Tamiya is still king with ships, but that's where they started so it's important. I really don't think it's matter of being able to produce kits, it's the market. With LHSs having a tough time in general, and online shops relying on shipping costs, do you want to sink $700-800 (wholesale) into one big box you hope to sell, or buy 40 smaller $20 kits that are easier to store and ship. If they don't sell, they won't make them. As for the wish lists, Italeri releases a Semovente and has modest sales. DML releases an expensive Wittmann Tiger I (probably their 20th variant) and sells out the whole run in presales. DML does well because they are flexible and go with short runs to drive buzz. Seriously, at one point people would preorder 5 or so, flip 4 immediately for 2 or 3 times what they paid. No Autoblinda in the world could create that type of hype. You can only do that with variants, and if you are talking Cromwells, etc, it's a dead end. The Char B1 Bis was a good release and well anticipated, but died off quickly. It just the nature of the beast, German outsells all other 10:1. |
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The cost of CNC milling machines has dropped. I am sure thar there is a steep learning curve but Sureline sells a setup with software and computer for under $3000. Most WW2 tank bodies are made of flat plates that were welded or bolted together. Amazon sells a Zen Toolworks CNC kit for $360 plus another several hundred forboards and software. You have to have an older computer with XP software and a parallel port. I am electronics challanged, but I would love the hear if any of the technical wizzards have tried this stuff for making tank parts. jot
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RE: Tank Museum message
ORIGINAL: Merganser The cost of CNC milling machines has dropped. I am sure thar there is a steep learning curve but Sureline sells a setup with software and computer for under $3000. Most WW2 tank bodies are made of flat plates that were welded or bolted together. Amazon sells a Zen Toolworks CNC kit for $360 plus another several hundred forboards and software. You have to have an older computer with XP software and a parallel port. I am electronics challanged, but I would love the hear if any of the technical wizzards have tried this stuff for making tank parts. jot I think the process is much more complex than buying a some machine parts from Amazon and bolting them together. It starts with knowledgable part design. Constant wall thicknesses, shrinkage compensations, runner design and mold cooling jackets. Then there's actually cutting the molds. Aluminum molds are easiest but a production mold would probably need P20 steel which can be a bear to work with. Also many of the small features can not be milled into the mold. First a graphit master has to be made and that is used to burn the features into the mold via EDM processing. Back when I was making parts about 8 yrs ago we bought a Haas VF0 mill. It was about $100k. Software was $50k for the suite (Pro/E). Software is really what has gotten cheaper. That $50k has fallen to $5k for a good package. Once your molds are done then you have to find a press to mold the parts. Probably 100 ton press for a decent size mold. So theres tons of money tied up in molding parts. Machining parts individually could be done but it takes so long. A tank hull could take a day or two of machining to complete a single unit. I think that 3D printing most likely evolve into the small run manufacturers tool of choice before molding gets cheap enough. Perry <br type="_moz" /> |
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