About cost and relative value
 

I have never thought much about cost versus value versus research and development until about a month ago when I was at the hardware store. I was standing in the checkout line with a 1 pound bag of wood screws and the gentleman in front of me had a box of 22 cal long rifle ammo. I noticed what the price was when the ammo was rung up. Then it was my turn. My 1 lb. bag of wood screws cost $3 more than the previous guys box of ammo. Now, I don't know how much research and development goes into a bag of wood screws but I'll bet the process of manufacturing ammunition is much more complicated than extruding a pound of wood screws. And, the supply and demand and competition has to be much more in favor of a low price for the screws, comparatively speaking, than that box of ammo. Since then, I find I am constantly looking at prices in new light. A plastic tank with a couple of circuit boards in it can cost MORE than the laptop computer I just purchased. Research and development? Hmmm.

As with all things, value is supported and re-inforced by what the market will bear, and has little to do with comparative values in getting to the market. A football player who's only purpose to society is entertainment gets payed hundreds of times more than fireman who risks his life for my life and property.

'tis a silly place indeed!

RE: About cost and relative value
 

________________________________[sm=tired.gif]

RE: About cost and relative value
 

Try comparing teacher salaries... everyone says teachers are the most important _fill in blank_ but when I was in High school working full time I was making more then some of my teachers. While I would like to teach there is no way I am taking a 70% paycut to do so since I like little things like food, shelter, RC tanks, etc.

As for the TvsHL price difference on a per hour of enjoyment(PHoE) basis I would say they are closer then people want to admit. It would be interesting to do a study on that if I can get a HL owner to buy a new HL and then keep track of the time they spend finishing it off and running for say the first 30,60,90 days. I will be buying Tamiya FO Sherman which I am going to convert to a jumbo soon and will do the same.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

I received my first HL for Christmas. Now we're up to 5. 2 of them have over 45 hours on them, another two around 30. I've cataloged every nickel spent on each tank and for the fleet as a whole. So far the high time tanks are creeping up on $300 including aquisition cost, the other two about $200. They won't get a lot of detailing, but they will be painted, metal tracks installed, upgraded guns and wireless cameras for each.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

I now have two HL's. The first cost right at $100 including shipping. Then I bought the metal track upgrade $67.50 including shipping.
So far about 10 hours running = $16.75 per hour, but no problems - so PHoE will improve with each hour. Just received the second one which is the SS. I've run it about 2 hrs so far. Needed two so when my brother in law visits we can play in the dirt! (I hope I never grow up!)

Of course, with HLs we do not get the PHoE for assembly of the kit. Although I do like my HL's and am pleased with them performance wise, but I do love to assemble a good model kit. I don't know what the average time to assemble a Tamiya is, but I would think it would be fairly high, so there is that PHoE even before you run it. I just wish the initial kit cost was not so high. I would love to have the Tamiya Leo. I do have a Tamiya humvee but it is an RTR. Good RC but not much in the way of WOW factor and the PHoE is low - only ran it about an hour after almost a year.

I am itching to put something together, though! (leaving myself open here, huh, TankDuel!)

jstewa41: I like the PHoE method of value - I think there is another factor and that would be Unit Lifetime based on hours of use. HL's don't have the history in that category. Mine are running great so far.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

Not really 447,as long as you having fun and they are still working, good on you. BTW I'm a bit different since my tanks all paid for themselves long ago as I work regularly for a local museum where I set up a U-Drive for visitors. I also do kids parties, school fairs,team building,etc with my tanks http://www.yellow.co.nz/site/radioco...rty/index.html all my tanks have hundreds of hours running time I have only stripped one gearbox and blown a couple of flash units. Some tanks are 'mine' which I don't let anyone else drive!
Nev

RE: About cost and relative value
 

TankDuel: WOW! I just visited your site - thanks for the link! Your tanks have been put to the test! This certainly shows the Tamiyas ability to survive long term. And, to get a RETURN on your INVESTMENT is whole new slant on the hobby. Very entrepeneurial!
Can't do that with BB shooting HLs though, unless safety gear is provided - for players and observers(and their cats and dogs)! Amazing! Sounds like a fun job!

RE: About cost and relative value
 

Yep, it is lots of fun,and when I work at the museum,and do public events, it's a good way to recruit members for our club.
Neville

RE: About cost and relative value
 

nice tanks duel.
[sm=thumbup.gif]

RE: About cost and relative value
 

SWATHDRIVER: Have you installed metal tracks on any of yours? I have on the non-ss tiger. I upgraded the motors and went to metal gears also. It runs fine except for turning, on gravel and especially on grass. I think the added weight causes the tracks to dig into the grass a lot more than the plastic tracks and it will stall out. I have to back up to be able to complete the turn. On concrete or other hard surfaces it is okay. I'm thinking now about going back to the plastic. I know the plastic is more easily broken, but I have plenty of links because I bought an extra plastic track set also. I may try the metal tracks on the new SS tiger but I would think the results would be the same.
If you have experience with the metal tracks, or anyone else reading this, I would like hear your impressions.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

I bought an extra set of plastic tracks for my Tiger too. I have metal tracks on a Tiger and a Pershing. With the added weight they do ride lower in grass, traveling through it, not over it. When the batteries get low they lack the power for a 90 degree turn. I run Venom 3600mah batteries. The Tiger's metal tracks were pretty loose and frequently tossed on one side after a while. I removed a link from each side and ran it hard this past holiday weekend through every type of terrain I could find, not a single jam or thrown track.


What motors did you put in? On a Pershing I put in some Graupner Speed400s. Lots of torque and were stripping the plastic gears so I'm switching that one to a metal gearbox.

I love the metal tracks plan to get them for every tank along with metal gearboxes. While quite expensive, The new ones for the Walker Bulldog look really cool and I'll eventually get the T-81 metal tracks for one of my Pershings for a different look.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

The motor upgrade was just the metal gearbox with whatever motors they came with - seem to have little more torque than the originals with the plastic gears. Speed 400's I'm sure would be better. I may try that myself. Although, the existing have plenty of power with the plastic tracks. I just came in from running mine and both tanks can climb very steep inclines. I have a hill from my front lawn down to the driveway about four feet long and 30 inches high - with grass - I hate that part of the yard when I mow, not easy at all. The Tiger's took that in stride - no stalls and the grass needs to be cut. I was very impressed. What kind of lubricant do you use on the gears?
I have a silicone lubricant which seems to be doing okay - don't know what the brand name it is though, but I have a lot of it.

The airsoft mechanism on my new tiger is very erratic shooting. The non-ss tiger is very consistent and accurate. I'Ve checked the barrel and the muzzel brake but can't see any obvious problems. It seems like the hop-up spins the bb sideways instead of up. I'm not familiar with these mechanisms so wouldn't know what to look for to correct it.

Are you using Nimh batteries? I have two 3600 Mah Nimh's but no charger for them. I want to get a quick charger but can't find one that specifies Nimh's. Well I did see a couple on the Tower page but they were very expensive - more than my tanks. I understand that the NiCad quick chargers won't work.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

For a inexpensive NiMH charger (~$35.99) try here. http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=990
It will handle 4-8 cells so if you upgrade you transimitter batteries it can handle them as well. It is a Peak charger you dont "quick" charge nimh but the charge for 3600's should not take too long maybe an hour depending on the amp setting you choose I would use 2amp but the charger can put out 4amp.

Hope it helps.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

On Independence Day I went for a walk with my SS Tiger after dinner. Drove it about 1/3 mile on sidewalk and light grass, climbing over people's garbage on the way to the field. I was hoping for some dirt, the field was heavily overgrown with grass about 18" high. The Tiger plowed right through it most of the time. Sometimes had to back up to free a wheel then plowed through it again. The grass was so tall and thick both rear mud flaps were ripped off along with the front machine gun! Some areas were relatively flat and deep into the field we found some ant piles to climg and crush! Distance traveled there was about 1/4 mile, then another 1/3 back to the house.

Lubricant, I use Penn Reel Lube on the tracks, I'm a fisherman! I guess I'll need something different for the airsoft units.

The rubber "hop-up" in the guns is a PITA! I'm working on a fix, you can follow my progress on the MTG forum.

Yes, the Venom 3600mah batteries are NIMH, I charge them with a DuraTrax Piranha that I got from Tower Hobbies (#DTXP4005).

I haven't used the original batteries since my first tank. All others had Venom's waiting for them! I now use the original batteries for gun testing and for my Tamiya airbrush though I recently bought 2 more Venom's that I saw for a good price on ebay.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

JSTEWA41: Thanks for the link - not a bad price at all! I'll order this unit.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the MTG forum? I would like to follow it.

RE: About cost and relative value
 

Tanker447 No problem I had posted it over on the [link=http://www.gusekweb.com/heat/forums/]H*E*A*T[/link] forum but mostly because of the 2150 mAh for Futaba transimitters (OEM are 600 mAh).
I bought 2 batteries plus that charger for ~60.00 on ebay only to later realize I did not need the charger my 977 would do the job. So I sold it to another club member and we tested it at the last Danville battleday worked well not fancy no indication about how much longer to go but it does beep at you so you do not have to keep checking on it.

As for the 2150's I used one for 3 days at Danville and it still was reading over 80% I did a discharge on it once I was home and it still had ~1200 mAh left which is twice the capacity of a standard futaba transmitter pack. [sm=thumbup.gif]

Regards,
James