Concerned newbie.
 

Hi All.

I have been thinking of buying an rc tank, on and off, for about thirty years or so. Up to now I have been dissuaded by several factors such as whiney toy noises, unrealistic speeds, extortionate prices and nobody to shoot at even if I had something to shoot with, which I don't.

This gift giving season a relative received a cheap ($40) toy helicopter with an IR controller. I found it amazing that we can produce something so sophisticated at such a cheap price tag. This naturally peeked my interest which has, alas, led me here.

Now I find that one of my early life ambitions can be realized, with out the shortcomings, at relatively low cost. And it shoots things. And it sounds like a tank. And it moves like a tank.

It MUST be too good to be true.

So I hit the chat rooms and see what other people say. A litany of horror stories emerges starting with tanks missing components, delivery taking weeks, components not working or breaking within hours of receipt.

So, now I look at the HL tanks with a suspicious eye. Everybody else is priced out of the game so just how poor are these tanks?

How shoddy is the workmanship?

Can I even get parts locally? No, apparently not. This does not look promising.

But gosh those pictures look pretty. Newer models like the Pz III look better made than the earlier ones. Especially the "what the h**l is it, a Panger, or a Tither?"

What! No Russians? Where are the KVs and T34s.

By the way, just how many tanks can one get onto one battlefield, ie freq. limitations?

So, reassure me somebody and I will dash out and buy that cute little Pz iii with the long 50 and the field grey petticoats. I may even spring for the metal upgrade kit to go with it.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Hey Brian,

I to was worried about the HENG LONG, and also heard the horror stories, but I have had a Tiger 1 for 3 years and it never ever gave me a bit of trouble, ever.

I then found this site and a bunch of great folks on here and around the world who offer not only products to make these things come to life but are willig at the drop of a hat to help you out.

I am modifying the old Tiger to a Late Version. I now have two and really enjoy them. If you look at it like this. Spend $80 on you a nice PZ III. Add another maybe $350 if you do it up with all the bells and whistles. Then decide you hate it. Okay you are out $430.

Now lets say you get the Tamiya kit. (Which are great and God knows I would love one!) You will spend at least $400 just for the kit.

And even if your Heng Long Breaks down. The repair parts are cheap. $22 for a new board. $12 for a reciever. $15 for (2) New Smoke Units. Motors are cheap.

In a nutshell brother....take the plunge. The water is fine....

Enjoy


Don

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Hey welcome newbie, don't worry, there has been a lot of improvments over the last year that I can see. There is now good retail support, and butt loads of help right here. The Heng Long boards are a great step forward with the rx 14 and rx 18. there is also a better selection of tanks to choose from. Most of the HL tanks I have, 12 months plus still have there original electronic parts in them. A couple chewed gears, and two cooked boards,not bad,out of 19 tanks, the only tank that was a total loss (my fault) was a pantiger that went off a parking garage upside down 8-10 feet to it's death. So don't be scared, just remember, you will need to make room for the others.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

After reading all the posts here, I was hesitent also, but nothing I was hearing seem impossible to overcome. I read everything I could find about these tanks, including a hell of a lot of posts on upgrading, fixing factory problems, painting, detailing etc,etc. The UPS man brought my HL Tiger today! These are impressive tanks! It you dont want to tinker with your tank, dont get one. Of course, I think half the fun is fixing things, upgrading, detailing etc, etc. Just like a real tank, a little work is required. I got my Tiger from RC Command, because they promise to test out the tank before sending it out. This saves you from getting major factory defects. The only thing wrong with my Tiger was the hinge on the loaders hatch was broken. One call to RC Command and a replacement is on the way. Other than that, it works perfectly. FUN,FUN,FUN. Go ahead......get one. Make sure you get the Smoke and Sound version, mine was less than $100 including shipping.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

There have been many "discussions" on the board about the quality of these tanks, so it's a bit of a loaded question...some would argue they're good, others would say they stink. Ah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder....or at least the one footing the bill. :)

Like you, I was never able to justify a higher priced tank (and had looked at them in years gone past), and it wasn't until I discovered the Heng Long tanks that I was able to justify a tank. Now I have several, including two Tamiya tanks!

I'd say the Heng Long tanks overall are only "okay" quality, unless you consider the price, where I'd say they're now "good" quality considering the cost. The quality on the newer ones seem decent for something in the high end of the toy market, the older ones (Pantigers for sure!) are spotty, though they appear to be installing updated electronics in some newer chassis....but hard to know what you're getting.

There are still dud tanks that die the first time they're powered up, and you can blow the boards by bogging them down or running them in hot weather or with metal tracks without a fan added. Quality can also vary even on the same age and model, depending on who was having a bad day at the factory (e.g. too much or too little glue holding on the little detail parts). But, with a spare board, you can generally fix most things as long as you know which end of the soldering iron is the "ouch, ouch, burny!" end. :)

Buying from a reputable dealer helps, as they'll be more likely to assist you if/when you have problems (e.g. replacements parts for parts that were broken before you ran it). I've had good luck with Matotoys.com in Canada, and RCCommand.com appears to be developing quite a following for the US buyer, though both with ship across the border of course.

If you decide to go for it, I'd highly recommend two tanks so you have two of everything for testing if a component dies (e.g. transmitter), and at least one spare board.

D.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Brian, nothing wrong with Heng long tanks. They all need a bit of tweaking and corrections if you want them to look like the real tank. The Panther is the worst regarding accuracy as it is totally out of proportion & has the wrong suspension, and the M-41 is out of scale but otherwise a very good runner, but HL is constantly making improvements. The Pz III and Pz IV are really nice and my 2 Tigers run great. Earlier models had a lot of problems, but they have been continually improving the quality. The Pz III has a dozen conversions to other models and the Pz IV is going the same way. Regarding whining, unrealistic sounds, there are many upgrades available. The Blitz has fixed up a couple of mine with El Mod and they are really great with very realistic sounds. Blitz's BDU units are Tammy compatable and substantially cheaper. Guns with recoil can be added, and many other upgrades designed for improving all 1;16 tanks are out there at pretty reasonable prices. For many of us that can't put out the money for Tamiya, HL tanks with upgrades are a good option and HL has more types of tanks to choose from. Same goes for WSN Trumpeter T-34/85. If you can do your own electronics, all the better. The web site has a big help section and many guys that are willing and able to help. I have 34 and only 1 is Tamiya.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

darkith, very well said. For me RC Command made the difference. There price is right, customer service is great, they have all the replacement parts you might need and their really easy to get ahold of if needed. Add to that this forum and its many expert and I cant see how you can go wrong. When the HL Sherman comes out( IF it comes out) Im on the list to get it!!!!Crap, Im addicted.:D

Patton, your right about HL continually improving there product. Example. My tanks mantlet was corrected and the smoke "pump" is not too loud. The pistol port is in the correct orientation also. They still need to correct the orientation of the commanders hatch,but that was a really easy fix. I've never had this much fun with anything involving something other than the opposite sex.:D

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

I bought a HL Tiger for my son for Xmas. Out of the box it had tx crystal issues. I had to disasemble the tx and make new set of contacts because the factory ones where way to short. Once done I could get it to start, but no sound. After taking the tank apart I find one speaker wire was off. OK. Put it back together and send it off for a test run. Left sprocket falls off within three feet. By now my son has written it off as a P.O.S. and I dont blame him. For $100 I expect it to at least work out of the box. All is not rosey in HL land. Yes they have improved but try to explain that to a nine year old on Xmas morning.
Very disapointing customer service from the U.S. seller just added to the experiance.[:@]

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Hi Brian

There is nothing really that wrong with Heng Long tanks. They provide an incredible value. On this board you will find the people who can help you fix everything on the tank if you have a problem, and I will even go as far to say that in most cases this ends up being part of the fun!!!!.

Heng Long makes spare parts available and Mato and RC command have most of these in stock at all times. This to me is what elevates the Heng long tanks up from toys. They are repairable, and parts are easily obtainable.

I see you are located in Ontario, which is the same province as Mato. I use Mato, and have never had a problem with them. Being that you would have no customs issues, I don't see you having any problem with them either. Tanks ordered will be at your door within a week using Canada Post.

RCCommand has a growing following and an excellent website. I wouldn't hestitate to order from them either. You will have customs to deal with and I will warn you to stay away from using UPS. They apply insane brokerage fees . If you order from the US always ask them to ship USPS. Way cheaper, and half the time it ends up at your door without any extra fees to pay. Usually just the GST.

So don't hesitate to get your feet wet, and fulfill that long time dream. Tanks are alot of fun, and are a great platform to hone your modelling skills. I bought one Heng long two years ago, and now I have many.

On a side note, I got an email from Mato today apologising for taking a few days to answer my email. Their reason is that they are swamped with orders and are having a hard time keeping up. So it seems as if tankers are doing our part to kickstart our economy back into action.!!!!!!

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

DAP, you got a Friday tank! Friday afternoon! :D

Brian, Heng Long modelled reliability into their models to be just like the real ones! They want you to get the full experience of tank ownership! But a tank, buy some spare parts and make sure your screwdriver and soldering iron are handy. Enjoy!

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

WOW, how does something like that happen???? That's a new one on me. When I look at the TX crystal and the receptacle it plugs into, I am doubfounded to explain how this set up could ever cause a problem. Did someone nip off the ends of the crystal prongs before it left the factory!!!!!There is not a simpler electrical connection out there, and I just don't understand how you would have an issue around this. These aren't custom made, every one of them is exactly the same as the other. Obviously you experienced a problem, but I got to tell you that is most unusual. So unusual, I be asking if they sent me a previously owned tank.

Sprockets falling off. Oh yeah, had this problem many times. I always add a lockwasher and some blue thread lock before a tank ever leaves the bench. Just a little trick that most tankers learn quickly. In your case it was in the first three feet!!!!!!!. Hardly an obstacle though really is it?????

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

@DAP,

Ouch, that sucks. Yeah, kids don't have much patience, so I wouldn't recommend one for a kid (ironic considering it's a toy), unless the kid has enough patience for when you have to fix it or you test-drive the heck out of it in advance.

Kids need robust toys that can be stomped on and keep going, at least until they're more mature.

D.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

I would like to recommend RCCommand as well. They test their products before they ship, keep you informed about your order, and their pricing is just as good as anyone else. Just top notch all the way. I have a HL Bulldog that I love, and never had a single issue with.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

DAP, Really unusual for so many things happen at once. As in many items, don't expect to be able to pull in out of the box and send it diectly into combat. Anything out of the box has to be checked once the batteries are in, not just RC tanks. These things are asembled in a small factory with less than diploma engineers working on them. They have to be checked for loose wires or maybe connections, screws not tightened all the way or a part crimped by a screw too tight. I'm not into elecronics so can't comment on the crystals, but one always has to check wheels, tracks etc before you set it off at top speed. I've had similar exreience with a new car and a few tools from Loews. Hitler had the same experience when he took Panthers "straight out of the box" and sent the to Russia without a chek-over. Once you check the running gear and give everything a "before ops" check over , I think the young tanker will be pretty happy with it. And, don't use the BBs supplied with it....check the help site for much better BBs.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Brian, if you just want to "dip your big toe in the water", you can find basic HL tanks for less than $80. Not a bad amount to gamble. That's what I did. It worked fine. I've since bought 3 upgraded HL tanks. The only failures I've had was a smoke unit, which was cheaply and easily replaced. Remember the "silent majority" concept; the folks who bought tanks and had no problems don't usually make any noise. You won't see them on the forums very often.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Yes the heng longs are great to start with. They leave it up to the buyer how far they want to get involved. If you decide you love it (and you probably will) you have the option to upgrade til your satisfied. On the other hand, if it's not what you thought it would be (highly unlikely) you didn't spend a small fortune on something you don't enjoy and may not be able to recover your expenses for. Don't be scared, many heplful, knowledgeable people here ! Enjoy! Regards, JZ

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Thnx Guys.

This is a very reassuring response.

I am not a hobby neophyte by any means. I have been wargaming and modeling since my school days. My occupation gives me more than a passing familiarity integrating mechanical and electronic functions and I tinker by nature. So I am not really concerned about maintenance.

The hobby appears to be expanding very quickly with lots of new people getting into it. Apparently as a direct result of HL's expanded, cheaper, line of "toys". All this looks very promising.

So, to some more specific questions.

Availability - There is a company in Toronto, sells on ebay, Viva hobbies. They will sell me a tank over the counter at the same price I see elsewhere. No shipping cost, no waiting. Any reason why I shouldn't pop over on Monday and buy a couple?

- Russians, where are the KV's and T34s? My only options seem either to convert an IR tank set from Trumpeter or go with a far more expensive manufacturer. HL's range is expanding I see, but are there Russians in the near future or should I start planning the conversion. Advise please.

BB range 20', not far enough. I understand that there are up-gunned airsoft projectors (or whatever they are called), how much and where do I get one from?

Someone to shoot at. I noticed a club call for Southern Ontario last year, any progress, response, at all?

Compatibility - How many tanks can you get on the same battlefield?

Again guys, thnx for the prompt and mostly encouraging responses.

Brian

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

I ended up buying two T-34 from Viva hobbies, online and then stuck HL electronics in them. That is how you get a T-34. THere are also resin conversions to turn a T-34 into an SU85 or an SU100. Anytime you can buy something across the counter and not pay too much of a premium, I would go for it. I always like to support the brick and mortor stores, as long as they are sensible with their pricing.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Smoke and Sound tanks run on 27mhz using FM crystals. In the United States we can "legally" run 7 channels. Not sure what the restrictions are in your country.

26.825
26.865
26.885
26.935
INOPO 26.975
Hobbico Red Hawk 26.995
INOPO 27.025
Hobbico Red Hawk 27.045
INOPO 27.075
Heng Long 27.095
INOPO 27.125
Heng Long 27.145
INOPO 27.175
Heng Long 27.195
INOPO 27.225
Hobbico Red Hawk 27.255
INOPO 27.335
Heng Long 27.550


Some of these channels are CB Radio channels, so if you run them, some trucker might take over your tank when he's lookin' for a place to go 10-100! [:-]

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Are you sure about 7 channels Swath? My research says 6 and one of them is a shared channel. The official looking info I found from the AMA said that the FCC take a dim view of CB users infringing on RC channels and vice versa...
HL channel 4 is in a band reserved for Federal use only - I learned that much from the FCC website.

Anybody know different? if so please speak up as I'd like to avoid buying expensive radios in order to field more than 6 tanks on the 27Mhz band [>:]
Mart

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

That is correct, in the 1980's there was a move to add extra channels but was blocked by cb and remote control garage door opener user's and, they never used them.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

I think 10-15 years down the road, channels wont be an issue. It'll all be 2.4ghz.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Can't say I'm supprised about the restrictions - CB is a pretty useful tool if you're broken down in the middle of nowhere :D

The UK equiv of the FCC restricts the use of 2.4GHz tx's to no more than 10 at a time per site - I guess this is due to the UK being crowded beyond belief (you can trust me on that point ;) ) and the Tx's sharing frequencies with other devices like cordless phones and wireless networking devices?

Thanks for backing me up btw, slotcsx

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

Well this is how I figured it out. HL had 4 channels and companies like Hobbico and Futaba had 6. So between those 10, 7 were unique. Wouldn't surprise me that one of HLs is "illegal". I'll watch for back helicopters when running the #4! Those other frequencies I listed can be purchased in Great Britain and elsewhere outside the USA.

RE: Concerned newbie.
 

The 6 channels that I know are legal are as follows:
1 26.995 Brown none
2 27.045 Red none
3 27.095 Orange none
4 27.145 Yellow none
5 27.195 Green none
6 27.255 Blue Shared with CB Radios

anything else is either a CB channel or on a federal reserved channel

Yes, you can purchase those crystals else where - I have seen european vendors offer crystals that are neither legal in Europe nor here - its a case of "its not illegal to sell it, but its illegal for you to use it"
As for the other CB channels, my research suggests that the EU views CB radio as a hobby format and so long as you aren't operating aircraft on those frequencies its a case of "no harm no foul" - Over here the FCC seems to take a much tougher stance...

I hope this is useful (or at least somebody can set me straight on what the FCC rules actually are)
[8D]
Mart