Sherman Stencil Question
 

This is my Tamiya Sherman M4A3E8 HVSS "Easy Eight" with the 105 mm howitzer work in progress build and NO this is not a build thread.

Many have already built this kit to very high master levels and this modest project does not have those goals in mind. It is a runner with a few after market parts, some paint and simple weathering will be applied a little latter.

The back story. My resident arbiter of taste and standards says the graffiti style name "Joan" on the sides of the tank looks like crap and does not fit the character of the tank. I explained in good, accurate, WWII historical detail (read triva) why the "Kilroy was Here" style scribble rendered in white artist chalk was appropriate, the reaction was it still looked bad and she didn't care about the history. Looks are looks, she stated and then she moved on to her more important concerns and clearly WWII history not being one of them. :)

The question, who makes custom stencils or decals? And if anyone needs cheap Tamiya Sherman replacement parts, email me off line. And I got this kit from a local out of biz hobby shop owner and I have a ton of extra spare Tamiya A,B,C & D plastic tree parts plus the A, B, C nut and bolt bags that came with the kit: email with your request and just pay $1.00 plus postage for the part or 3 bucks for the whole tree.

John

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Georg Eyerman [email protected]

Georg does a fine job in any scale you want. He made 1;35 & 1'16 scale decals for all the AFV's I built for my Mil Museum and also made correct scale 90mm ammo for my cut-away Pershing.

The name Joan is very common as guys were putting wifes/girlfreinds (or both) names on tanks, but closer to the front or hatches. Killroy on the side of a tank is VERY mut and would mean absolutely nothing. German tanks very often had girls names near the hatch of the occupant. My tank in Korea was Charlott....our driver's wife...he was the oldest tank crewman and no one objected, so that was our tank's name. But then, that's only uninteresting history:eek:

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

John, can't help you on the custom decals, but I'm sure others can. However, that is a very nicely done tank, crisp and clean, very nice blend of colour and detail.
As for going against SWMBO, I learned in a short period of time in my marriage, read the first week, not to irritate the lass. Not good for your digestion or the colour of the skin around your eyes.

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Here's a place http://getstencils.com/Home.html Made dry transfers for my Tiger1. They will bend over backwards to get what you want. Great people. Look a their gallery page. See there work. My Tiger happens to be there. They also make stencils too!

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

tailend charlie and Pattoncommander: Yes, thank you both for the tips and leads plus posting the outstanding tank images for tips on name placement. And I not considering a "Kilroy" icon on my tank, just the name Joan.

Bob, I will not further irritate the lass with more sketchy WWII history lessons. I have airbrushed out the scribble Joan and will pursue the decal leads for a typography "Joan". ;)

But another question, what type font for the name Joan?

By the way I got my parts from sevoblast (Bob of ETO), including the 105 metal barrel. For me, the heft of the barrel is the heart of this build.

John

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Thanks for the kudos, John.
I've got a wonderful book, Russian, on the Sherm. I will rummage thru the pages to see what's there for names etc. It actually (gasp!) lists the extensive aid we gave SSSR, which is almost unheard of, and documents said aid with more photos than I've ever seen.
Anywho, if there's anything of use I'll post it in the AM my time. Late now, this old codger needs to hit the wrack.

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Tried emailing Georg Eyerman for a decal quote, but the email was returned.

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Was a reason given for return? Georg is often out of country, so give him a little time. He normally has an auto reply system and it gets filled up fast. On the names, many were hand painted or stenciled with standard block letters like all other markings on the vehicle. . Regards the tank designation, it's not an easy 8....the easy 8 had the T-23 turret and 76mm.....your model is a Sherman 105m(HVSS). Nice looking tank.

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Thanks, I will try emailing latter and tell that to Tamiya about their model not being an Easy 8. LOL.

A good majority of the Sherman reference material clearly states the "E-8 shape of the HVSS earns it the nickname "Easy Eight" and not the gun type mounted, power pack or turret used: http://scalemodel.net/Gallery/sherman.aspx

"Historical Notes: The M4 Sherman may not be the best tank of WWII, but sure is the most numerous one. Over 50,000 were produced during the war, including M4, M4A1, M4A2, M4A3, M4A4, M4A6, and Canadian Ram II. The types are distinguished by the engine used, the original M4 is powered by a Wright R-975, the A2 adopted two coupled GM 6-71 diesel engine, and the A3 is powered by a Ford GAA V8, which is the majority among all types. There are also four types of guns were equipped on this tank, originally 75mm, later the more offensive 76mm with improved speed, as well as 105mm Howitzer (this model), and 17 pdr (UK). The later models (after August 1944) replaced the original vertical volute suspension to the Horizontal Volute Suspension System (HVSS), developed by Chrysler in 1941 for heavy tanks, to accommodate the increased weight due to the increased fire power. The E-8 shape of the HVSS earns it the nickname "Easy Eight"."

About 500 Sherman infantry assault 105mm tanks using the radial engine were produced and many went to the ETO. So, the research says, as does the Tamiya box art, that there were 2 HVSS Easy 8 types in standardized production torwards the end of WWII: the T-23 turret, 76mm gunned, Ford powered version and the 105mm gunned, radial engine powered model. Also, both types served in Korea. Anyway, Easy 8 or not, whatever we call this model, it will not be Joan!

Perhaps my worst idea ever is to attempt to name a tank after by girlie girl, fitness driven, organically healthy OC wife. :D

John

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

East eight came from two areas...."Easy" was the WW II phonetic alphabet E, now "Echo". Since the tank was M-4A3 E8, the common reference was to "easy". The E designation breakdown was not widely used on many tanks other than the Sherman and original ETO Pershings, so it's a special tag for this tank. Also, since the new HVSS and wider track gave the tank a reputation for a much "easier" ride cross country, it also helped from crew comments to put the "easy" tag on it. One Marine tank unit I knew refered to their Sherman 105 (HVSS) as an Easy 9.[:-] Never have seen or heard that designation anywhere else. I have always seen it as M-4 Sherman 105 with (VVSS or HVSS) following the designation. Most WW II or korean War tankers will refer to Easy 8 as the 76mm version. There were a tremendous variety of Shermans made and converted from 41-55 and it can be very confusing. Want to get really turned around, get into M-4 tank retrievers in the early to mid 1950s[:@] You get into the A, E and B sub breakdowns. The A's do not correspond to the standard As of Shermans. [:'(]

How 'bout it Panther F....you have more info on Shermans than most of us....any input?

Joan is still OK...tell her it's an old girl friend..:D

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Hmmm.....The (diesel-powered) M4A2(76)W HVSS was also referred to as the M4A2E8. It was used by the Marines in the Pacific and by the Red Army in Operation August Storm against the Japanese in Manchuria in the fall of 1945.

Canada bought 300 of these just after the war, and a good number are still standing duty as "Gate Guards" :

http://www.rclwinnipeg100.ca/TheShermanTankMemorial.pdf

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

All that you say is true and that is the "dog face" skinny or point of view in civilian speak.

But for the record, the M4A3 Sherman had both VVS and HVSS suspension, but only one is a true Easy 8. The "Easy 8" designation is most accurately applied to the HVSS suspension equipped Sherman tank, again without regard to the turret – gun type mounted or power pack installed.

As to your other thought, I don't think so: "Joan is still OK...tell her it's an old girl friend". For sure, that wouldn't work out to well. :)

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

The M4A3 was the first to carry the experimental E8 designation, therefore earning the nickname the "Easy Eight". But technically, any M4 tank equipped with the new HVSS was nicknamed an "Easy Eight" as well. They just weren't the first.

Like the pot calling the kettle black ... who cares. :D

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

I think Panther F cares or you wouldn't have jumped in. :D

And thank you for repeating with far less clarity what I so clearly wrote. :)

The later M4A3 with the HVSS suspension carried the E8 designation. The earlier M4A3 with the VVSS suspension did not carry the E8 designation.

Modelers who actually build models care about this trivia, because it impacts the look of the build, especially if you get it wrong.

Anyway, there are about a billion 1/35 Sherman kits out there and they very clearly document and show the differences and designations for the major Sherman model changes.

Just take a look at the fine scale Sherman kits if you do not want to read about this industrial design stuff. But for me and my friends, the OEM and military history part is at least 1/2 the fun of model building, just a reminder to those RTR black pot guys who don't care...:)

OK, to get back on track, so, after hijacking the thread into Sherman "I don't care land", Panther F, who do you know and recommend that makes custom decals? ;)

John

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

DUH. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

And I don't care about your decals either. [sm=lol.gif]

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Hi Panther F,

Since you don't care, why are you here? :)

Just a friendly suggestion, why not take your lack of modeling interest, irrelevant comments and your inaccurate Sherman facts with you and post over here from now on: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_498/tt.htm

:D Perhaps this forum category will better fit your type of toy interest and attitude. Take Care, your kinda like communicating with a bathroom, full of stink. :D

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Hi John!

You're certainly worth a laugh or two, that and your inaccurate observations. I care, just not about you and your personal attacks. There was no "thread hijacking", it just went a little off topic and I was asked to jump in on pattoncommander comment by him, not you.

Please reply with another off color comment and personal attack. It's been a pretty boring day and you do provide us with some free entertainment. :D


- Jeff

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

This is getting a bit pedantic and totally on the absurd end of the scale. Panther F responded as per my question, as he is a lot more into Sherman history than most of us and has straightened me out on a couple bloopers I made. I only worked with Shermans only a couple months before going to M-41, then 26-46 and on, so my knowledge of Shermans is pretty much hands-on the couple versions to which I was assigned.

The point has been made about the initial use of Easy 8 terminology....It came from both the phonetic E or the era and from many crew comments on the "easy" ride of this new tank suspension. Panther F also alluded to this Sherman being the first (outside of the T-26E3 Pershing) to be regarded by its' E designation. Ask anyone who served with Shermans 1945-55 and they will tell you that Easy 8 is the Sherman with the 76mm and wide tracks. The Sherman 105 has always been regarded as Sherman 105, and adding VVSS or HVSS on written documentation. The Marines added a flame gun in the gunner's telescope mount in Korea and designated this tank as M-4A3 POA-CWS-HS. That also had HVVS and a 105mm how. , but no Easy 8.

Toy and model makers are reknown to be inventive in labeling tanks aimed for higher sales. Take what's on the model box with a grain of salt., They are not( and care less) about historical accuracy.

Time to cease fire on the squabbling and lock and clear all vocal weapons. It's still a nice looking model and needs a cute lady's name on the side. :D

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Wrong and yea, yea, there is the Army way, the Sarges way and the right way. Go read the published US Army and West Point's WWII online history material for armor or look at the box art on any Tamiya and or Dragon Sherman 1/35 kit, people, or for that matter visit Tamiya's 1/16 scale rc tank kit box art.

All you alleged resident forum experts, just aren't and neither am I, but I least I go to the experts to check things out. LOL. And now my interest has shifted back to the green Sherman machine. ;)

Anyway, this is what I came up with, the stencil folks are great and cost effective: Jiving Joan II is the name she selected, but the lady is now worried about what happened to Jiving Joan I's crew and tank. :)

Probably a victim of a Panther in Normandy, but I don't have the heart to break the news, I'll let the Western Union Boy do that. See ya suckers.

John

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

pcomm1 ,,,

which stencil co. did you use? i love www.getstencils.com do work for my R/C WARBIRDS, and soon tanks... Vickie and Jerry are a great team... Jerry is an R/C WARBIRD PILOT and Vickie is his better half and SUPPORTER, as well as an artist!

-TOMAS
TX ARMOR

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Simple on the Joan 1. Got stuck in the mud, crew wandered away to get help, and the nasty Germans then ventilated it. No one hurt besides a broken fingernail.
Scanner is not working, hence the lack of photos from the Russian Sherm book. However, the font you chose is similar to several in the book.

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Thanks Bob, good back story. And yes, I went to www.getstencils.com and Vikie and I have been in contact, we have modified the art work and they are going to make me some dry transfers. Turns out we went to the same college at different times, friendly people.

And as to the "I don't care folks", that proper Brit Nev seems to have banned me from his little site (only posted their to market my panzers LOL, didn't work). Anyway, he was pestering me with emails, because like the other 300 million Americans I think lawyers are well lawyers, and said so. LOL. So I returned the email favor to Nev with what I thought would be the best prose and use some of that long lost British Empire classic gentlemanly behavior – tact and emailed back: "Dear Nev, F.U. (spelled out) Kindest Regards, John" The brilliant little Nev wanker seems a bit sensitive, I suppose, thus banned me as Mr Pcomm1. Very polite chap after all, even while banning me. :D

Now working on figures for the Sherman and preparing to take it to the next finish level: weathering.

too-da-lu, Mr Pcomm1

John

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

that sucks...........

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

THAT SUCKS......

RE: Sherman Stencil Question
 

Maybe not, and anyway that is not what wankers do...LOL.