Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

I'm currently working on the back of my initial production Tiger and would like to know what I'm duplicating and what would possibly go to the locations pointed out.
I think one of the areas are for the jack but the large piece on the far right of the pic has me the most curious. At first I thought it would be for a fire extinguisher, but pictures show that it was on top by the engine grill. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Tony

edit: Don't know how I double posted the same pic?!! lol</p>

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

From my book it shows a jack mounted in place by the lower three and the large piece up in the outer corner was to mount an external antenna. Hope this helps.

Richard

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Knew you'd be lurking around somewhere! Thanks Richard.

Not sure if your familliar with the HL tanks, but the half @$$ jack is mounted on it's smallest side. So on the initial tigers, the jack would be mounted flat on its back?

Also this external antennae......
The dual stowage bin I.P. Tiger #100shows dual antennas on a diagram. Would you say that this external antennae was a feature unused on this tank?

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

It was known as a phantom antenna base. From the books I have it appears it was never used and remove. The 142 that I did didn't have it and that was Sep of '42. As for the jack you might beable to use a Tamiya one. I am sure someone on this sight should have one not being used. Also some of very early initials had the shove and sledge hammer mounted back in the same location instead of the jack that would be late summer '42.

Richard

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Hey thanks again Richard. I've seen some of the initialslike the Tiger No. 121 with the unusual tool placements as well as the unusual stowage bin. Thought it would be interesting to incorporate that with my tank, but the brackets don't seem to line up in similarity. Although the top bracket on the left of the antennae mount looks like something was held vertical....maybe a shovel, maybe not. As for the jack, I wanted to fabricate my own working jack, but can't seem to find any diagrams of how it worked or looked up-close.

Anyway, thanks again!
Back to the torment of sanding and cutting!

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

never mind, found a great link about the jacks for German tanks.
For anyone else interested, here it is.
http://www.panzerbasics.com/index_fi...pment/jack.htm

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Also had a question in regards to the exhaust.
I purchased the Dragon initial production Tiger a while back in hopes that it would assist me in the conversion of my HL as well as identifying parts of a Tiger.......it did not. Only to confuse things a bit more by variations of parts that you can add to the Tiger to make another from a different unit, so here I am with this question.

In the kit, they have included a "improvised flame guard" by it's description. I liked the way it looked on the model, so I decided to make it for my HL using brass sheets. I doubt that this tank utilized it, but hell if I know for sure. The model kit also included a fording pipe, which I too will fabricate.

Now I can only assume this improvised flameguard was used in conjunctionwith the fording pipe, but I am not sure. Also, I don't know if the improvised flameguard used a screen mesh/grate to prevent object/birds from entering but I thought it looks cool so I went with it.

If anyone has any info, that would be great!

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Guess just about everyone decided to take the day off in unison.....I hate these slow days. It's so lonely, lol:D

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

You have hit on a very interesting feature of a single units unique feature this to the best of my knowledge was only used in Russia by 502 around late 42 early 43 pictures of this modification are very rare and not the best quality some it’s very hard to see, information is scarce on what it was for and why this was done have a look under the 502 section on the “Tigers in Focus” forum for a few pictures, this is not covered in the Jentz and Doyle books

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Thanks alot Rivetcounter! After searching a while, I finally found it. Best part is that a forum member posted a pic of it before it's capture. Also these improvised exhaust extensions had 4 vent slits facing the turret on another Tiger (whether there were matching ones towards the rear is unknow.)TheTiger 100 had a different variation from the others (taller)I suppose the four slits on the Tiger 100 exhaust extensionsis unsupported, but I think I will add themas ashot in the dark ormore uniqueness and sacrifice a bit of accuracy.The new information that I've acquired now makes me second guess it's use with the fording pipe since it has those vent slits. I'm wondering if they were used to prevent snow from building up into the exhaust when the Tiger was stationary for long periods.....maybe before hinged flappers for the exhaust were added to the tank....or maybe these suppressed sound or fog when heat hit the cold air giving away their position? I can't think of any other reason, don't think a collection of snow building up in the exhaust pipe, fog, or soundwould be a good thing. Good stuff on that site.

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

double post
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ssed_smile.gif

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

D,
You may have hit on it with the heat mixing with cold air resulting in a large steam cloud from the exhaust giving the position of the tank away. The vents may have been designed to mix the hot exhaust gases with cold air before exiting the top of the system resulting in a smaller steam cloud signature. Just my thoughts, nothing to back it up. The fact that only one unit had these vented extensions and they dissappeared after that one year, could have been that the result wasn't satisfactory enough to incorporate them system wide. Again just my thoughts.

Jim

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Thanks 1sgt for the more thorough explanation. The 502nd were the first to field the Tiger so I don't believe any other division would have gotten these thereafter because these were supposedly alterations made through experimentation or field modification. But it is apparent that it was decided to be either non- useful or inapplicable through various situations....I think this was a limiting modification to cold weather. At Least this makes sense to me! lol

I think I will go ahead and make those slits on both sides. It'll look cool either way!

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

D,
I agree, it will be cool and you'll have a unique Tiger. Like I said, I was just suppossing what the use was for. Just a SWAG ( simple wilda** guess).

Jim

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Just flippin great! Now I wonder if the Russians decided to alter the original use of the Tiger 100 for museum purposes. I know that items were removed, missing, the snow camo washed off, etc....

But now, after studying this newly acquired picture of it before it's capture....I notice it doesn't have its fourth outer road wheels and headlights!!!!!! I'm hoping my eyes are playing tricks on me or maybe the tank crew men altered the tank from time to time? My intent on my reproduction was to make a before capture model, but now I'm definitely not sure about some things. Sometimes it is better to be in the dark!! http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...unge_smile.gif

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

The first outer roadwheels were sometimes removed by crews to prevent excesses of snow and mud getting caught between the sprocket and roadwheel.
Headlights could be easily damaged and were also removed by crews as necessary.

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Thanks for the info Smitty. So it is possible the tank crew serviced the tank with all road wheels intact.....that's a relief! I was racking my brain on how to get this done with the plastic road wheels! lol No way I'd invest two hundred buck in metal road wheel just to leave one out despite their accuracy!

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

It was standard practice to remove headlamps prior to battle, Tiger 100 pictured with the winter camo paint job could have been taken several month’s before it was finally captured in the meantime it would have undergone regular maintenance and probably had a repaint, white really stands out in a green back drop as has been said the front wheel was often removed to help prevent the build up of snow and mud in spring this would have been replaced.

Having seen Tiger 131 running several times I can assure you the first thing you notice is how quiet the tank is especially as it comes towards you you really don’t hear it until it’s well within 100 yards so I cant see the exhaust extensions being added to quieten the tank down also having seen 131 run when it was misfiring it did have a number of back fires and flashes from the exhausts so my thoughts would be that the extensions are an early for of the Panthers Flamvernecter exhaust flame suppressors to reduce the flashes from un-burnt petrol later Tigers had the extended plates above the exhausts this may have done a similar job as for the exhaust tappets and deep wading equipment well these where there on all the early Tigers so I cant see it having anything to do with that especially as the deep wading kit didn’t involve alterations to the exhausts but we will probably never know the real reason

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Thanks Rivetcounter! Another plausible reason for the exhaust extension. Actually I think your explanation sounds much more realistic. But why reduce the flash is the question. Was is that blinding to other tanks or troopers that they would need to reduce the flash?

Well, I guess it now boils down to what paint job I want the most. I really do love the winter camo.....but I don't like the thought of the extra work of figuring out how to best approach the missing front road wheel, leaving the visible single road wheels that HL provides with plastic tracks....it's a toss up from here.

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

It was my understanding that the exhaust extensions were an attempt to get the hot gases up and away from the engine compartment. Several of the early Tigers self combusted. Engine compartments were crammed full, even on this quite large tank, and heat was your enemy.

The idea of Flammvernichter exhaust was not so much concern for the local troops but the flash from backfires was visible from quite a distance at night. Since half the job was stealth, last thing you want is a high intensity strobe light going off and announcing your dastardly intentions to the intended victims. Tended to irritate Brand X no end when they became aware of a herd of Tigers or Panthers delicately fluttering over to their general AO.

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Alright! That makes two confrimations. Good enough for me! lol
So that screen mesh that I put on the top, wouldn't make sense for what it does? The opening would actually be closed and the exhaust would vent through the slits?

Thanks Bob and Rivetcounter. Stay tuned for more of my upcoming questions! lol

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

No, if memory serves from a photo some years ago, it was basically just an open tube over the muffler extending higher above the rear deck is all. Simple and effecitve supposedly, but obviously for whatever reason not adopted for the production run.

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

Darn......Well, good to know. I think I may just leave them in for aesthetic purposes then.....but after knowing it shouldn't be there....it's gonna be hard! lol

edit: As an afterthought. It just doesn't make sense for there to be full blown opening. The flash from the kick back would just travel higher, wouldn't it or was this flash not an actual flame? There had to be some kid of partial closing somewhere in the middle which is why there would be vents on the side of the exhaust...just had to be!

RE: Brackets On Initial Eastern Front Tiger
 

As Sev says light carries far further than sound and much faster especially in the dark months of winter or a night time operation which would have been rare in WWII, one flash from your exhausts and the game is over, I would imagine that the vents in the side are to allow air into the extensions to help burn fuel vapour don’t forget you need oxygen to ignite fumes in all that carbon monoxide, as for the top well there are no pictures so again we will never truly know but I would go with the Panther type fans as it sounds and looks more plausible.

10/10 for a truly unique build one which only a truly dedicated person would follow