Pershing questions
 

How would the machine gun ammo cans along the sides be tied down? I don't think they would just sit there. same goes for all the gear on it.

also, would the helmets be the same color as the tank or a diffrent shade?

I'll ask more questions as I think of them

Really impressed with the quality, glad it came with an RX18 board

RE: Pershing questions
 

With the skirts removed, the end pieces were generally discared and the center skirts folded up and tack-welded in place, with a bar on each end. OR....a cable or bar is run along the track guard along the sponson boxes. This would provide plenty of space to carry more MG ammo. WW II Pershings mainly kept the skirts as they didn't see that much combat and didn't loose many skirts running through heavy brush and barbed wire. In Korea, most Pershings did not have the skirts as they just got in the way. Helmers are usually carried inside, or hung close to the hatch...they were used when you got off the tank, or in some cases, the helmet outer shell was worn on the tank helmet if you were running open. To show difference, a tad lighter OD, or closer to the uniform would be good.
Jerry cans carried standing up, never laid down....a good spot on the Pershing in the rear track guard....stapped down to the hull.

RE: Pershing questions
 

Cool thanks. I assume extra hooks were welded on the hull for cables to be tied on to? Would a jerry can be laid flat if it was empty though?Interesting fact about the side skirts, I was going back and forth on taking them off.

RE: Pershing questions
 

I thought people said the engine deck grilles were solid on the HL Pershing, but mine are perforated?

RE: Pershing questions
 

If it were empty, I don't see why it wouldn't although the design and common practice to transport it (asidefrom leakage issues) upright was to save space.http://www.olive-drab.com/od_mvg_jer..._metal_gas.php

RE: Pershing questions
 

Patton Commander is spot on as usual. Thanks for your input. You are a treasure of factual information. Also Banana, most of the Korean War M26s also had reinforcement turn-buckles added to the rear fenders to counteract the droopy fender syndrome. Post some pix of your build.....

Good luck with your project, Bob, thecommandernj

RE: Pershing questions
 

Here's some examples...a couple M-46 and M-45, but same deal. Empty cans you can put anywhere, but not much sense in carrying empites. A couple in the turret side stowage rack would be a good touch. They would normally be water. Oil cans are generally carried tied down near the engine to keep warm for easier pouring in very cold weather. Fasten them down with rope or strap. There are lifting
eyes (triangular) on the engine deck near the fenders and footman loops can be installed anywhere for heavy straps, so there is a good place to carry 1 or 2 jerry cans. The lifting eyes are moulded on, but you can drill a hole or simpy CA glue the rope so that it appears to go under....or scratch make an eye that stands up. Tanks always carried rope to tie down personal gear etc.

Commander mentioned track guard (fender) braces. These were added post WW II and easy to fabricate using soldering wire. Just flatten out the parts for the turnbuckle with flat nose pliers. Some guys have made some really grat ones with threaded rod etc, but
the soldering wire trick does good on an RC tank that's going to be bouncing around and not on museum display..

Early Pershing skirts were bolted on, but later and with M-45 & M-46, there were mounted on slide hinges that could be lifted up by removing two bolts. Either way, they were a PITA and got in the way of maintenance as well as getting torn up and getting tangled in the tracks , so most were simply taken off or as the Marines showed us, folded up to provide MG ammo stowage. In Korea, tanks needed as much MG ammo as was possible to carry.

RE: Pershing questions
 

???????????
Haven't we been here before??

RE: Pershing questions
 

Well, they wouldn't toss them out. fynsdad's picture shows you how it's done and further more, they wouldn't always be full so laying flat with some water in them can be the case. I'd pick up "Pershings In Action" book and look for more examples too.


- Jeff

RE: Pershing questions
 

What is the photo trying to show? The arrows point to an open sponson box and from what I see, to a 90mm rammer extractor tool, not a Jerry can. The tank is an M-26A1 or a late issue Marine Pershing with an M-26A1/46 mantlet cover. Jerry cans were also often carried on the rear turret cal 50 stowage pintle or on the spare cal 50 barrels...really, anywhere you could put them, out of the way of interfering with hatches or turret movement. Roping to lifting eyes on the rear and even on the pioneer rack in front on some M-46s.

There is a specific loading plan for every tank and certain tools or items of issue were placed IAW the load plan SOP. This, in case of loss or damage to an item, anyone could run up to an inoperative tank and go to exactly where that item is stowed and remove it quickly. In the case of that photo......have no idea what the rammer extractor tool is doing there...it's supposed to be on the loader's side in the turret. What is carried outside of the stowage boxes or in specifically designed brackets, is up to the crew.

Panther F; Re; My statement;, "no sense carrying empties", in most cases, a crew did not refill the cans, but swapped them off for full ones at any number of supply stations. This was primarily the bow gunner's job. Even if a can was half full/empty, a fresh one was picked up at the next supply point. That's potable and wash water as well as OE-30 oil, so empty cans were not normally carried for any length of time, normally within a few hours.

RE: Pershing questions
 

I'm sorry I have been mistaken, for all these years what I have thought were jerry cans were actually 90mm rammer extractor tools.
You can tell what they are by the cross shaped-indentation and handles on the can-shaped object...............

RE: Pershing questions
 

Do you have a closer view? I still see a rammer-extractor, the handle is toward the outside with the rim grabbing tang under the sponson box hinge. I see no jerry can. [:-] short stowage box has an MG tripod, top of longer box shows a shovel and axe..arrows cover most of the rest.

RE: Pershing questions
 

Any clearer?????????
Still looks like a jerry can to me!
Have you a pic of a rammer extractor so I can compare?

RE: Pershing questions
 

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; ">Looks like a jerry can to me....but I highly doubt that it contains fuel. Maybe food or water.....or just empty.</span>

RE: Pershing questions
 

Look at this tank. They're doing a NO-NO by laying the jerry cans flat on the rear fenders like that!
http://www.bevinalexander.com/korea/.../korea-009.jpg

Maybe they don't know what they're doing either.

RE: Pershing questions
 

Oh look, another RC tank modeller who doesn't know that you shouldn't lay jerry cans flat like that! They should do more research before doing that on their model!
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n...g-19500903.jpg

RE: Pershing questions
 

LOL.....it must be one of mine!

RE: Pershing questions
 

OK Fynsdad....I see it. All I saw before was the outline of the side of the can, sure had the outline of a R-E tool. May be light oil for the recoil cylinders. If it did leak, it would effect only the tools and other items in the enclosed box and not be an immediate concern for fire.

Googly ; as I wrote above.."Roping to lifting eyes on the rear...." Those cans are not laying flat, they are hanging from the lifting ring or one of the grille door rings by rope. In either case the spouts are not laying where the contents can run out. If they do get hit by small arms or schrapnel, the contents will run off onto the ground and not into the engine compartment and cause a fire. There's the difference and the reason why cans are not laid flat. They ALL leak as they had either a cork or rubber gasket which was easilly broken or deterriorated by saturation with oil. The cans we have today are completey different and much safer.

RE: Pershing questions
 

But you said it was normally water? Water will catch fire? Interesting.


- Jeff

RE: Pershing questions
 

But I thought that jerry cans were (and I'll quote you directly) NEVER laid flat?

RE: Pershing questions
 

Well there are probably exceptions to every rule including which way the tracks are installed. As Pattoncommander actually served on these things, he probably knows how things were supposed to go. Sure there will be exceptions, and I use this simple fact as a comeback to anyone who wants to start picking nits. Never say never with respect to tanks and wartime. The heat of the moment will determine what is right.!!!!!!!!!!!

I still appreciate first hand knowledge on what is supposed to be correct, even if there are exceptions.

RE: Pershing questions
 

-TRUTH

That's a good signature! lol
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RE: Pershing questions
 

Panther...picking whole sale nits again? Jerry cans carry anything, ID being the spout configuration and cap.

Water cans have a cam operated seal, but gas/oil cans have a 4 sided threaded cap that normally was opened and closed with a hammer or track jack bar. These were also vented and leaked, regardless of how tight the cap was on. In the case of water in some theaters, marked by a white stripe or lid painted white.

Cans hung/carried on the rear are usually OE-30 oil and there to catch the engine heat for ease of pouring. Water cans can be stashed anywhere, but usually around the turret rear/sides. If they got hit, all you get is a wet deck.

Fynsdad, quote as much as desire...on any of MY tanks, Jerry cans were NEVER laid flat. I experienced one tank fire and have no great desire to repeat it. In event of an engine compartment fire, if the initial shot from the main extinguishers fail to kill it, you can pretty much kiss the tank good bye. In spite of strict commanders or regulations, you will at times, see photos of AFVs with things not kosher with what should be done. Some TCs with limited experience, poor leadership or just stupidity cause things to go not IAW "rules of the game". That's how people get killed and equipment gets lost. A Jerry can that is hanging from a lifting eye with the spout upward...(look again at the photos) is NOT laying flat, but is stowed at an angle at which the oil will not easilly flow out. The way those cans are carried is good....if hit, it just runs off the fender onto the ground. If burning, very easy to cut it loose.

I did not obtain my knowledge of tank operations by reading books and looking at photos. I was out there working on them for 25 years from 120 to -35 farenheit. In this respect, I have more than a general idea of what goes where on a tank and why. As tank commander, platoon sgt or 1SG, it was my responsibility to insure that specific regulations were aheared to, particularly when it was a safety matter. Some regs you can let by, but not fire saftey.

Plastic RC tanks are considerably different, but considering the amount of detail, weathering and accuracy that goes into these tanks, it would be fair to assume (bad word) that some owners would care to be somewhat accurate in the stowage of items carried and be aware of the reasons for it being that way.

Jeff...water will burn if you mix it right. Gasoline and oil does not burn,,,fumes do...so keep it from leaking and stirring up fumes that are easy to ignite.

RE: Pershing questions
 

I'll take a bite, and I'll quote you.
The imperative keyword in your statement is "MY". We're not building the tank YOU used, or the tank YOU'RE working on. Contrary to what you may think, there were lots of Pershings/Pattons back in the day, not just YOUR tank. And guess what? We're not modeling yours, so stop criticizing people's work just because that's not what you have done in YOUR tank.

As period photographs have shown time after time, what you consider things that shouldn't be done HAVE been done time after time. Whether it was foolish, or whether it was safe or not, is up for debate for another time. But the fact is, you're WRONG when you make a criticism based on what you PERSONALLY would have done. ;)

RE: Pershing questions
 

I wouldn't carry gas cans on the side in my truck, so it makes no sence to carry gas cans on the side on a tank that will be under fire.  The risk is too great of fire in the engine compartment or on the hull.  Fire on the hull will suck the O2 out of the tank and kill the crew.

Pattoncommander, thanks for the info about the white paint for water.  I will use it to make the jerry cans I could not get off the tank look more plasuable.