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Newbie I appologize now....

Old 06-17-2012, 09:41 PM
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22justin82
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Default Newbie I appologize now....

OK so total newbie at all of this......(no Iam not just asking questions before reading the forum, IHATE when people do that)

My Brother in Law has a truggy and another truck he has not ran in two years and is loaning me to see if Ilike them. I will pick them up tomorrow and update this thread about what they are and what else Ineed. I just have a couple of questions that have came to mind as Ihave been reading thru the forum.

1. What is a speed controller? Specific design of the handheld I use to control?
so many more questions but I am sure the exact truggy/motor/parts are needed so for tonight I will stick with this. tomorrow pictures and more questions
Old 06-17-2012, 10:54 PM
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Foxy
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

The speed controller is also known as the ESC (Electronic Speed Control), it is the device which sits between the receiver and the motor, converting your throttle inputs to acceleration/braking. Here is a long post about electric basics I made a while ago and now post it for anyone looking for general info...

In response for your request concerning info about electric in general, here are some basic guidelines:

Motor

Motors come in 2 basic varieties; brushed and brushless. Brushed motors are older technology and are only really used still in classes that dictate you must use a brushed motor, and other applications that require very smooth throttle response and low speed control, such as Crawling and Drifting. Brushed motors need maintenance every so often, changing the brushes when they wear down and sometimes shaving a layer of metal off the commutator (using a 'comm lathe') to provide a better surface for the brushes.

Brushless motors are the newer technology, requiring no maintenance and delivering significantly more speed and power for the same ratings.

Both types of motor are rated in 'turns', with higher turns being more torque and less speed, and lower turns the opposite. Most brushless motors are also referred to as having a specific KV rating. This is a measure of their maximum rpm per volt. So, for example, if you see a brushless 10.5 turn 4000kv motor, it will turn 4000rpm for every volt supplied at maximum throttle. So the max speed (in rpm) of that motor on a 7.4v lipo battery will be 7.4*4000. In general consider that 3000kv or less is a fairly slow motor for high torque, and a 9000kv motor is a very fast, less torquey motor. The current a motor pulls on startup and under load (amps) goes up with the KV.

Speed controllers

Speed controllers also come in the brushed and brushless variety, indicating what kind of motor they can accept. There are many speed controls which can be switched or switch automatically between brushless and brushed operation. Running the wrong type of speed controller for the motor or running the wrong setting will destroy the speed controller and/or the motor in pretty short order.

The next things to look at on a speed controller are voltage and current ratings, which must not be exceeded. Often a speed controller (hereafter referred to as an ESC) will say first how many volts you can pump through it. Though this is often expressed in how many cells you can use (the number of cells your battery has). NimH old style batteries composed of a number of SubC cells are 1.2V per cell, and Lithium Polymer (lipo) batteries are rated at 3.7v per cell. You may see an ESC say '10 cell/3s max' This means 10 nimh cells (10*1.2=12v), or 3 lipo cells ('S' always refers to lipo cells) (3x3.7=11.1). Or the same speed controller may say 12v max. Once you have identified that the ESC can handle your batteries, you need to look at the current rating (maximum AMPS) and make sure your motor draw will not exceed that. Most motors will say how many amps they draw 'under load' and 'burst'. As long as those amps do not exceed the 'continuous' and 'burst' amp ratings of the ESC, you are good to go. As a general rule of thumb, 25A ESCs are for micro scale stuff, 40A ESCs will do for most 1/10th stuff, 60A ESCs are for the heavy duty (very high kv) 1/10th stuff, 80A for light duty 1/8th stuff, 120A for midrange 1/8th scale stuff, and 150-200A for the really big 1/8th scale stuff.

Batteries

Nimh batteries (made up of smaller 1.2v cells) need to be maintained. After a few months of being flat, they will rarely take a full charge again, at least not without careful resurrection using a complex cycling charger for many hours, apart from that, decent nimh cells should be fine for almost all your current needs.

Lipo batteries are a little more trouble, but overall lower maintenance. The thing about Lipos is that they will generally start a fire if mistreated. Mistreated means; overcharged, overdischarged, badly damaged. These batteries must never be allowed to drop below 2.9v per cell. If this happens, first of all there is the fire risk if high current is still being pulled through it, but also a battery overdischarged in this way will never take a full charge again, and may visibly 'swell'. Therefore it's critical when using lipo batteries to use a speed control that has an automatic lipo cutoff, ideally one which you can set. When I have the option, I always set my lipo cutoff to 3.1v per cell. (so when a 2s (2 cell) 7.4v battery reaches 6.2v, the ESC stops the power to prevent battery damage). These batteries also need to be regularly balanced to make sure that the batteries stay at the same voltage per cell so that the lipo cutoff works properly. The danger of an unbalanced battery, is that eventually, if one cell in the battery were to fall to 2.6v, yet the other was still at 3.7v, that wouldn't be low enough (combined=6.3v) to activate the cutoff, but the first cell is already damaged beyond repair, having dropped below 2.9v. Balancing your batteries prevents these voltage mismatches. Most lipo chargers include a balancing charge option, which will do this automatically.

The good thing about Lipos is that they charge fast (can be charged in an hour at the most, and many can be fully charged in half an hour), they do not lose much charge over time sitting around, they deliver incredible amounts of current, and last a very long time. Despite the extra care, these batteries are VASTLY superior to the other type, and I strongly recommend getting some and getting used to their idiosyncracies. Dont be put off by the extra care they require, follow these simple rules and they are very easy to own and will serve you well for many many charge cycles.

Charge and discharge rating... When you buy a lipo battery, as well as the number of cells (2S, 3S, 4S, etc, which determine the voltage, 7.4, 11.1, and 14.8 respectively), and the duration expressed in mAh (milliamp hours), you will also see a discharge rating, expressed in 'C', for example, '2s 7.4v 5000mAh 25C'. This means it is a 2 cell 7.4v battery which will last for 5000miliamp hours and the maximum discharge rate is 25C. The C rating is an expression of how much continuous current (Amps) the battery can deliver safely (exceeding this can damage the battery and/or the ESC. The C rating is a formula based on the capacity. So, 25C on a 5000mAh battery is 25x5 (5000mA=5A), so this battery can deliver 125A of maximum continous current. A 40C battery of the same capacity would be able to deliver 200A of continuous current (40x5A=200A). Once again, it is important to match the battery to what your motor and ESC are capable of. To be honest, most batteries of 4000mAh or more at 20C or more are good enough for most applicatoins, it only starts to be a problem in the really high power 1/8th applications, where a 2650kv motor pulls say 150A continuous current. You would need to make sure that the C rating of your battery multiplied by its capacity makes at least 150 in order not to risk damage to the battery and/or ESC

The same applies when charging. You may see a battery say it can be charged at 1C or 2C. Lets take the 5000mAh example again. 1C as we said=5A, 2C=10A etc. So a 'Charge at 2C' battery with 5000mAh capacoity can be charged at 10A maximum.

Hope all that makes sense and helps.
Old 06-18-2012, 07:02 PM
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22justin82
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

Thank man lots of information there in one post.

so the trucks/truggies are;

jammin CRT with an OFRA 28 engine

and a

Jammin X1CRT with a U or V Spec engine
has more markings like VZR and O.S.


Iassume the second one is better as he upgraded the shocks and put bigger servos on it.

ANYinformation about these trucks is appreciated, the trucks definetly have battle scars on the skid plates and bodies are trashed but the engines seem to be top notch. Without pictures how much is a well used truck with good engine worth?
Old 06-18-2012, 09:04 PM
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22justin82
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

I also just figured out what took me so long to find my post, it is in the electric section....can a moderator or someone move it to Nitro?
Old 06-18-2012, 10:55 PM
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

I'll move it right after this post.

You have identified your trucks as Jammin X1 CRTs, very nice trucks, still raceworthy despite being somewhat older models these days. Spares are still easy-ish to find, but they are starting to dwindle a bit. I wouldn't expect them to disappear completely for a long time yet. The OFNA .28 engine is a decent budget engine, nothing special. The OS V-Spec is a high quality racing engine.

Obviously all my information about electric is irrelevant, when you said speed control (which is a very specific electric term) I assumed the cars were electric. Although...that particular car does very well when converted to electric.
Old 06-19-2012, 05:34 AM
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

how much they are worth is a good question
one of our members scored a X1 CRT RTR for a little over $100 off ebay
Where I paid $120 for a roller(no electronics, motor, or wheels) alone 1-2 years ago that was in piss poor shape

Its a good truggy like foxy said tough as nails. I also wouldn't worry too much about parts support as a quite a few ofna RC's share arms, and other pats. For example my CRT.5 parts were getting VERY scarce (seriously $15 per C-hub scarce) then they released the SCRT10 which used around 85-90% of the parts the .5 CRT used so parts flooded the market. Same with the X1 CR they released the ofna nexx8 which is a x1 cr that they slapped an electric motor in.
Only parts I replaced on mine were the front bumper mount (I crashed it going EXTREMELY fast), and an a-arm neither part I had any issue finding.
Old 06-19-2012, 08:12 AM
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22justin82
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....


ORIGINAL: Foxy

I'll move it right after this post.

You have identified your trucks as Jammin X1 CRTs, very nice trucks, still raceworthy despite being somewhat older models these days. Spares are still easy-ish to find, but they are starting to dwindle a bit. I wouldn't expect them to disappear completely for a long time yet. The OFNA .28 engine is a decent budget engine, nothing special. The OS V-Spec is a high quality racing engine.

Obviously all my information about electric is irrelevant, when you said speed control (which is a very specific electric term) I assumed the cars were electric. Although...that particular car does very well when converted to electric.

Ya I was told they were electric, not sure what he was thinking.


Off to Hobby store today, Ithink Igot an old or exploded battery in the glow start thing. All wet inside, tried to use the jump box and could not get anything going so hoping they will show me what I am doing wrong...Maybe it was because of the glow starter? I could get everything lined up but the clutch would not spin?


thanks for moving the topic for me!
Old 06-19-2012, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

You will need obviously to make sure the glow ignitor and glow plugs are ok first, this test kills two birds with one stone, take out a glow plug, and push it in the glow ignitor carefully with your fingers, it won't hurt (much, lol), no seriously, be careful, you can do it without burning yourself, it should glow a nice glowy bright orange then return to an ash colour after you remove it. Repeat test for all glow plugs. This will obviously identify for you if the ignitor is working or not, however, if the ignitor AND the first glow plug is gone, then you're not gonna know which has a problem! No probs, go buy a new glow plug first (it's good to have a spare) and use that to test the ignitor, then if the ignitor works, test the old plugs. If they all seem ok and you still can't get it running, let us know
Old 06-20-2012, 06:22 PM
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22justin82
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

ok so another dummy question....

in the igniter, does the battery go + up or down?

Hobby Town is a crock here, I went in so they could help me out. They told me I needed a new igniter and charger for my starter box. So I buy it, go home call my brother in law and tell him. Over the phone gives me more help then those fools. Take the stuff back and they say oh we didn't know how to hook that one up. Isn't that part of there job knowing this stuff?   Tomorrow I am off to another locally owned store, hopefully much better service there. I am really itching to get these going.    Hobbytown also valued my vehicles at $200 total, did I just run into some uneducated people or are they all this ignorant?
Old 06-20-2012, 06:41 PM
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22justin82
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

also when I am charging the igniter, do I push the charger all the way down so the inside is way in or just make contact with the metal?
Old 06-21-2012, 05:31 AM
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

Yeh, put it in til it won't go in no more.
Old 06-21-2012, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

just wondering is this http://ofna.com/nexx8t.php just a crt with a new name?
Old 06-21-2012, 10:40 AM
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

X2 CRT, yeh
Old 06-24-2012, 03:14 PM
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22justin82
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

Well I got one running....and I learned a lesson...Don't learn in a yard with a wood fence....Think my batteries were going dead or something, took a corner got on it and brakes or wheels wouldn't turn. Hit the fence WOT, the right A arm is busted. SO....who sells parts to these truggies? Going to go out tomorrow and check the local shop but he said some parts he had others he didn't so hopefully he has it.

How do I keep the tires from balloning?
Old 06-24-2012, 11:44 PM
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

Yeh, if your receiver battery runs out and you don't have a strong spring on the throttle servo to return it if it loses power (this is the one situation where the built in failsafes can't help you), then you will lose all control of the car. Many tracks require racers to have a throttle return spring regardless what kind of failsafe technology is in the car, it is a good mechanical safeguard. You can double up a couple of elastic bands until you find a suitable spring. The trick is to make it strong enough so that with the throttle full, when you turn off the car, the throttle returns to neutral, but no stronger, as that will hurt the servos (especially if they're crap).
Old 06-27-2012, 03:00 AM
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22justin82
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

So are all the CRT parts interchangeable? 
CRT
CRT X1
CRT X2

What others vehicles are interchangeable?
Old 06-27-2012, 03:31 AM
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Default RE: Newbie I appologize now....

I'm not 100% sure which parts are interchangeable (Syco_Venom will probably know for sure), but yeh, essentially, they are the same truck all the way back to the OFNA Dominator with updates each round. Some parts will be different on every truck compared to every other, none are identical.

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