CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
04-15-2009, 09:09 PM
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CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
On the topic of LI-PO, Since i am going to be converting my 1/8 scale Truggy to Brushless Li-Po. What Receiver pack would you guys recommend and what "main" pack or packs would i need to run the motor? Keep in mind i know nothing about Li-Po. I already have a charger that i "hear" may charge lipo with a firmware update. I have a MRC (Model Rectifier) Super Brian 969 Pro charger. What else do i need to know? What does 2s and 3s mean when dealing with Li-Po? i know what 2000mAh means and i understand that each lipo cell holds 3.7 volts. I know nothing about balancers. How can u use a 7.4v lipo receiver pack on 6v servos and not fry the servos?
What motor to get for 1/8 scale Truggy?
What ESC to get for 1/8 scale Truggy
What "MAIN" battery pack/packs to get to run the MOTOR?
What Receiver pack to get?
Servo Suggestions?
What motor to get for 1/8 scale Truggy?
What ESC to get for 1/8 scale Truggy
What "MAIN" battery pack/packs to get to run the MOTOR?
What Receiver pack to get?
Servo Suggestions?
04-16-2009, 12:30 AM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
Don't need RX packs anymore since the power will be provided by either the ESC (built-in UBEC) or the main battery packs (via an external UBEC).
Steering servo - the more torque the better. Metal gears help with durability. It's all a matter of costs. If you can afford better, get better. On my TTR ST-1, I'm using the stock 8kg-cm servo and it works fine. I haven't had a problem with not being able to turn the wheels even in fairly thick grass. But I wouldn't mind picking up a 13-15kg-cm servo.
LiPo battery packs:
Each LiPo cell is 3.7V.
When you connect LiPo cells together to form multi-cell battery packs, you designate them with "S" and "P" nomenclatures. S = Serial meaning the cells are connected in a serial pattern (positive to negative from one cell to the next). P = Parallel meaning the cells are connected in parallel (positive to positive, neg to neg). 2s means 2 cells in series, so 3.7V per cell so 7.4V for the pack total. 4s means 4 cells in series, or 14.8V total. 2s2p means there's 4 cells total, with two pairs of 2-series cells. Cells in series makes more voltage. Cells in parallel provides more capacity (mAh) and current discharge capability, i.e. if you take two 4s1p 4000mAh 10C packs and put them in parallel, you'll equivalently have a 4s2p setup that's 8000mAh capacity and 20C discharge capable.
C rating...C = Capacity. Discharge (and charge) rates are spec'd as a multiple of the C-rating. A pack with C = 4000mAh = 4Ah with a discharge rating of 10C means 10*4 = 40A discharge capable. There's also burst ratings or how much current the pack can supply for a short (milliseconds) period of time.
ESC:
The MMM is the most popular for 1/8-size trucks. Castle is the juggernaut in the ESC realm. Their customer support is very good and if your setup is considered under warranty (check with what setups they warranty their products for though), then it's cheap and easy. Otherwise, you pay a "repair" fee. The MMM is now on it's 3rd revision, V3 to address issues it had before (many just died).
I had a CC MM ESC before and while it was small and compact, I didn't like it for 2 reasons: 1) it heats up quick when run in a 1/8-size truck, even with a fan, and 2) in a 1/8 truck (or even a 1/10 MT), it is "out of warranty", so if something happened, I wouldn't get support anyways (aside from a repair).
I switched to Hobbywing EZRun ESCs and have the 60A, 80A, and 150A ESCs. So far, I really like them. They're HUGE, larger than the MMM. Soldering is quite good, and they use the same/similar FETs (from brand names) as Castle ESCs. Based off the FET ratings, the ESC current ratings are either correct or even quite a bit understated. There have been a rash of reported failures with the 80A and 150A ESCs from people running the punch control too low or the timing too high. There seems to be a bug in the firmware that burns up the ESC when these two settings are changed toward the extremes. Thus far, people that run at default or close to default settings haven't had this issue.
1/8 truggies don't weigh that much. My TTR ST-1 weighs 7lbs w/o batteries (but with all the brushless stuff). That's the same weight as my 1/10 E-Savage. My 80A ESC pushes my E-Sav around just fine (too much power actually). I have a 150A in my truggy, but that's just because I bought the 150A to try out. I would have no hesitation running the 80A in my truggy.
Motor:
Most people run huge motors on big voltage that make enough power to flip the truggy on command (with a hard pull of the throttle). Personally, that's not fun for me. It's fun to watch for a bit and impress people with, but not that fun to play with when you can't steer because your front tires don't touch the ground.
You'll see motors that are 2-pole, 4-pole, and even 6-pole (although 6-poles are rare). The number of poles means the number of N-S poles on the rotor/magnet. Most motors are 2-pole, especially the lower cost ones. Higher priced motors tend to be 4-pole (though, some are 2-pole). Neu, Medusa, Tekin, Losi, etc. are 4-pole. 4-poles typically cost 2x to 3x that of a 2-pole. 4-pole motors generate more torque and are typically more efficient, so less power is wasted as heat.
Typical recommended max rpm for most 2-pole motors (except the high-end ones) is 40k rpm. For 4-poles (since most of these are higher end and pricier), max rpm is in the 50k to 60k rpm range (mostly due to higher quality bearings used, so you could change out the bearing on a 2-pole and running higher rpm, up to a point).
kV rating of the motor is the rpm the motor will spin per unit voltage that's applied. So a 2000kV motor will spin 2000rpm for every volt you apply. Apply 10V and it spins 20000rpm (at no load). When loaded, rpms drop.
Pick the motor based on the voltage you plan to run so that the rpm of the motor is within the recommended limits. Ex. for a 2000kV 2-pole motor should spin up to 40k max, so don't run more than 20V. Since a 6s pack is 22.2V, you're pushing the limit there and might risk the motor failing. Drop down to 5s which is 18.5V and you're under the 40k rpm limit. Drop to 4s, and you're a bit more under the limit. Most 2-poles tend to like being in the 30k to 40k rpm range, 35k would be good to shoot for. This is a decent rule of thumb to use for other motor types too if you don't want to bother understanding all the characteristics of various motors and blah blah blah.
Most people run "XL" sized 540 motors. 540 motors are 36mm in diameter. The XL-sized 540s range from about 67mm to 80mm long. The longer the motor, the more magnet and coils there are for generating more torque. Most people like to run the biggest possible, usually in the 76-80mm range. IMO, a 1/8 truggy that weighs 7lbs doesn't need that large of a motor. Too large and it makes so much torque that it's difficult to control or keep the front tires on the ground or prevent it from flipping over so you have to have a feather trigger finger.
I run a 36x74mm 2-pole motor in my truggy and it hauls ass just fine. In my E-Sav, I run a 36x65mm 2-pole and it flips on it's lid too easily (resulting in a really destroyed shell). The E-Sav is easier to flip due to the shorter wheelbase and length. I don't flip my truggy, but I do lose steering because my front wheels don't touch the ground. My 36x74mm is a 2350kV and my 36x65mm is a 2300kV.
Just to add...
The MMM combos, both the 2650kV and 2200kV are really nice and if you can afford them, I'd definitely recommend those. The motors are stupid strong. I personally would go with the 2650kV and run on 3s or 4s. Most people run the 2200kV on 5s (like I said, most people want retard-strong power). However, the combos are pretty pricey.
The nice thing about combos is everything's already there (ESC and motor are connected) and ready to hook up once you solder on a battery connector (and even then, sometimes combos come with that soldered).
I run EZRun combos. Both the 80A and 150A ESCs are available in combos with a 36x74mm (SL3674) 2350kV motor. There have been reported failures of the SL3674 motors with the rotor/magnet cracking in half, but thus far, all reports that provide any useful info have indicated they ran the motors on 6s, which makes about 52k rpm, which is WAY higher than the 40k rpm max I recommended above.
If I could afford it, I'd pick up a MMM combo. But for the price of 1 MMM combo, I picked up 2 EZRun combos and was able to power both my E-Sav and Truggy with really fun and blistering fast brushless power.
Ok, my fingers are tired from typing now. If you have other specific questions, just shoot.
Steering servo - the more torque the better. Metal gears help with durability. It's all a matter of costs. If you can afford better, get better. On my TTR ST-1, I'm using the stock 8kg-cm servo and it works fine. I haven't had a problem with not being able to turn the wheels even in fairly thick grass. But I wouldn't mind picking up a 13-15kg-cm servo.
LiPo battery packs:
Each LiPo cell is 3.7V.
When you connect LiPo cells together to form multi-cell battery packs, you designate them with "S" and "P" nomenclatures. S = Serial meaning the cells are connected in a serial pattern (positive to negative from one cell to the next). P = Parallel meaning the cells are connected in parallel (positive to positive, neg to neg). 2s means 2 cells in series, so 3.7V per cell so 7.4V for the pack total. 4s means 4 cells in series, or 14.8V total. 2s2p means there's 4 cells total, with two pairs of 2-series cells. Cells in series makes more voltage. Cells in parallel provides more capacity (mAh) and current discharge capability, i.e. if you take two 4s1p 4000mAh 10C packs and put them in parallel, you'll equivalently have a 4s2p setup that's 8000mAh capacity and 20C discharge capable.
C rating...C = Capacity. Discharge (and charge) rates are spec'd as a multiple of the C-rating. A pack with C = 4000mAh = 4Ah with a discharge rating of 10C means 10*4 = 40A discharge capable. There's also burst ratings or how much current the pack can supply for a short (milliseconds) period of time.
ESC:
The MMM is the most popular for 1/8-size trucks. Castle is the juggernaut in the ESC realm. Their customer support is very good and if your setup is considered under warranty (check with what setups they warranty their products for though), then it's cheap and easy. Otherwise, you pay a "repair" fee. The MMM is now on it's 3rd revision, V3 to address issues it had before (many just died).
I had a CC MM ESC before and while it was small and compact, I didn't like it for 2 reasons: 1) it heats up quick when run in a 1/8-size truck, even with a fan, and 2) in a 1/8 truck (or even a 1/10 MT), it is "out of warranty", so if something happened, I wouldn't get support anyways (aside from a repair).
I switched to Hobbywing EZRun ESCs and have the 60A, 80A, and 150A ESCs. So far, I really like them. They're HUGE, larger than the MMM. Soldering is quite good, and they use the same/similar FETs (from brand names) as Castle ESCs. Based off the FET ratings, the ESC current ratings are either correct or even quite a bit understated. There have been a rash of reported failures with the 80A and 150A ESCs from people running the punch control too low or the timing too high. There seems to be a bug in the firmware that burns up the ESC when these two settings are changed toward the extremes. Thus far, people that run at default or close to default settings haven't had this issue.
1/8 truggies don't weigh that much. My TTR ST-1 weighs 7lbs w/o batteries (but with all the brushless stuff). That's the same weight as my 1/10 E-Savage. My 80A ESC pushes my E-Sav around just fine (too much power actually). I have a 150A in my truggy, but that's just because I bought the 150A to try out. I would have no hesitation running the 80A in my truggy.
Motor:
Most people run huge motors on big voltage that make enough power to flip the truggy on command (with a hard pull of the throttle). Personally, that's not fun for me. It's fun to watch for a bit and impress people with, but not that fun to play with when you can't steer because your front tires don't touch the ground.
You'll see motors that are 2-pole, 4-pole, and even 6-pole (although 6-poles are rare). The number of poles means the number of N-S poles on the rotor/magnet. Most motors are 2-pole, especially the lower cost ones. Higher priced motors tend to be 4-pole (though, some are 2-pole). Neu, Medusa, Tekin, Losi, etc. are 4-pole. 4-poles typically cost 2x to 3x that of a 2-pole. 4-pole motors generate more torque and are typically more efficient, so less power is wasted as heat.
Typical recommended max rpm for most 2-pole motors (except the high-end ones) is 40k rpm. For 4-poles (since most of these are higher end and pricier), max rpm is in the 50k to 60k rpm range (mostly due to higher quality bearings used, so you could change out the bearing on a 2-pole and running higher rpm, up to a point).
kV rating of the motor is the rpm the motor will spin per unit voltage that's applied. So a 2000kV motor will spin 2000rpm for every volt you apply. Apply 10V and it spins 20000rpm (at no load). When loaded, rpms drop.
Pick the motor based on the voltage you plan to run so that the rpm of the motor is within the recommended limits. Ex. for a 2000kV 2-pole motor should spin up to 40k max, so don't run more than 20V. Since a 6s pack is 22.2V, you're pushing the limit there and might risk the motor failing. Drop down to 5s which is 18.5V and you're under the 40k rpm limit. Drop to 4s, and you're a bit more under the limit. Most 2-poles tend to like being in the 30k to 40k rpm range, 35k would be good to shoot for. This is a decent rule of thumb to use for other motor types too if you don't want to bother understanding all the characteristics of various motors and blah blah blah.
Most people run "XL" sized 540 motors. 540 motors are 36mm in diameter. The XL-sized 540s range from about 67mm to 80mm long. The longer the motor, the more magnet and coils there are for generating more torque. Most people like to run the biggest possible, usually in the 76-80mm range. IMO, a 1/8 truggy that weighs 7lbs doesn't need that large of a motor. Too large and it makes so much torque that it's difficult to control or keep the front tires on the ground or prevent it from flipping over so you have to have a feather trigger finger.
I run a 36x74mm 2-pole motor in my truggy and it hauls ass just fine. In my E-Sav, I run a 36x65mm 2-pole and it flips on it's lid too easily (resulting in a really destroyed shell). The E-Sav is easier to flip due to the shorter wheelbase and length. I don't flip my truggy, but I do lose steering because my front wheels don't touch the ground. My 36x74mm is a 2350kV and my 36x65mm is a 2300kV.
Just to add...
The MMM combos, both the 2650kV and 2200kV are really nice and if you can afford them, I'd definitely recommend those. The motors are stupid strong. I personally would go with the 2650kV and run on 3s or 4s. Most people run the 2200kV on 5s (like I said, most people want retard-strong power). However, the combos are pretty pricey.
The nice thing about combos is everything's already there (ESC and motor are connected) and ready to hook up once you solder on a battery connector (and even then, sometimes combos come with that soldered).
I run EZRun combos. Both the 80A and 150A ESCs are available in combos with a 36x74mm (SL3674) 2350kV motor. There have been reported failures of the SL3674 motors with the rotor/magnet cracking in half, but thus far, all reports that provide any useful info have indicated they ran the motors on 6s, which makes about 52k rpm, which is WAY higher than the 40k rpm max I recommended above.
If I could afford it, I'd pick up a MMM combo. But for the price of 1 MMM combo, I picked up 2 EZRun combos and was able to power both my E-Sav and Truggy with really fun and blistering fast brushless power.
Ok, my fingers are tired from typing now. If you have other specific questions, just shoot.
04-16-2009, 12:55 AM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
OMG, thanks for all the info, that is the detail i was looking for. besides what i already KINDA knew i think I now know enough to make an informed decision. Thanks so much for the info you have provided, I think that you have been one of the most informative people i have spoke with on RCU. Thanks for that! Btw. if you could recommend just a really nice brushless setup for the Raze ST. I want something Budget but that will compete. You kinda did that with the above post, but would like a link if u have it.Thanks again
04-16-2009, 12:25 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
Well, I'm not sure what your budget is and what "budget" means to you. To many people in this hobby, a "budget" truggy costs $400 for the kit alone while a "good" kit runs $500+. A budget motor to many is a $120+ Medusa, while a Neu is the higher end. My budget is MUCH lower than most, so my definition of a "budget" setup is resultingly much lower. Here's some ideas for you to kick around at various "budgets":
My "budget":
Hobbywing EZRun 80A ESC + SL3674 2350kV motor + program card
~$140 shipped from ebay (search for "ezrun 80a" )
Notes on this setup:
Do NOT run more than 4s
Do NOT set the punch to "0" (I wouldn't set it below "3". I've run at "3" and was fine.)
Do NOT set the timing too high (the default 15deg is fine for 2-pole or 4-pole motors)
Up 1:
Hobbywing EZRun 150A ESC + SL3674 2350kV motor + program card
$210 shipped from ebay (search for "ezrun 150a" )
Same notes as above
Up 2:
Hobbywing EZRun 80A ESC ~$75 to $80 shipped (ebay or RC-Monster...you'll get it faster from RCM, but it might be $5 cheaper from ebay)
CC/Neu 2650kV or 2200kV motor ~$140-$150 (ebay, or search on the web)
HW EZRun program card (get the 80A/150A specific one) $10 (RCM)
Total $225-$240
Same notes as above
Up 3:
Same as Up 2 but with a 150A EZRun ESC. Add $50 for the ESC. ebay or RCM ($126 on RCM + shipping)
Total $275-$290
Can run up to 4s on 2650kV or 6s on 2200kV (but you do NOT need 6s on a truggy with the CC/Neu motor)
Up 4:
MMM 2650kV or 2200kV Combo
$280-$300 + shipping
Same notes as Up 3
You don't need anything more than a MMM combo.
I'm plenty fast with my EZRun combo on 3s and 4s. I'm geared for about 42mph and I get there in no time. Have fun!
My "budget":
Hobbywing EZRun 80A ESC + SL3674 2350kV motor + program card
~$140 shipped from ebay (search for "ezrun 80a" )
Notes on this setup:
Do NOT run more than 4s
Do NOT set the punch to "0" (I wouldn't set it below "3". I've run at "3" and was fine.)
Do NOT set the timing too high (the default 15deg is fine for 2-pole or 4-pole motors)
Up 1:
Hobbywing EZRun 150A ESC + SL3674 2350kV motor + program card
$210 shipped from ebay (search for "ezrun 150a" )
Same notes as above
Up 2:
Hobbywing EZRun 80A ESC ~$75 to $80 shipped (ebay or RC-Monster...you'll get it faster from RCM, but it might be $5 cheaper from ebay)
CC/Neu 2650kV or 2200kV motor ~$140-$150 (ebay, or search on the web)
HW EZRun program card (get the 80A/150A specific one) $10 (RCM)
Total $225-$240
Same notes as above
Up 3:
Same as Up 2 but with a 150A EZRun ESC. Add $50 for the ESC. ebay or RCM ($126 on RCM + shipping)
Total $275-$290
Can run up to 4s on 2650kV or 6s on 2200kV (but you do NOT need 6s on a truggy with the CC/Neu motor)
Up 4:
MMM 2650kV or 2200kV Combo
$280-$300 + shipping
Same notes as Up 3
You don't need anything more than a MMM combo.
I'm plenty fast with my EZRun combo on 3s and 4s. I'm geared for about 42mph and I get there in no time. Have fun!
04-16-2009, 02:29 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
dosent EZ Run make a combo kit that will work with 1/8 scale for under 175.00 that includes motor esc and program card.
04-16-2009, 05:04 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
I would say.. go with this and you can stay close to 200 bucks.
those ez run motor's dont' seem to all that good anyways. SO.. either use the $60 off coupon from tower and get the 299.99 MMM combo. and you have a kick ass system. just add lipos.
or.. you can go with MMM ESC. for $159 use the $25 off coupon for that and get this motor from hobbycity (gotta wait for shipping)
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6677
you can order lipos and charger from there while you're at it, i hear nothing but good stuff about their flightmax lipos. stick with 5000mah 30c lipos'
those ez run motor's dont' seem to all that good anyways. SO.. either use the $60 off coupon from tower and get the 299.99 MMM combo. and you have a kick ass system. just add lipos.
or.. you can go with MMM ESC. for $159 use the $25 off coupon for that and get this motor from hobbycity (gotta wait for shipping)
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6677
you can order lipos and charger from there while you're at it, i hear nothing but good stuff about their flightmax lipos. stick with 5000mah 30c lipos'
04-16-2009, 05:17 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
only thing is.. you have to catch shipments for hobbycity.. the 5000mah 30C's sell out quick. yesterday they had i think 40 5000mah 3s1p 30C's sell out in a hour...
04-16-2009, 05:26 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
ORIGINAL: mentat
On the topic of LI-PO, Since i am going to be converting my 1/8 scale Truggy to Brushless Li-Po. What Receiver pack would you guys recommend and what "main" pack or packs would i need to run the motor? Keep in mind i know nothing about Li-Po. I already have a charger that i "hear" may charge lipo with a firmware update. I have a MRC (Model Rectifier) Super Brian 969 Pro charger. What else do i need to know? What does 2s and 3s mean when dealing with Li-Po? i know what 2000mAh means and i understand that each lipo cell holds 3.7 volts. I know nothing about balancers. How can u use a 7.4v lipo receiver pack on 6v servos and not fry the servos?
What motor to get for 1/8 scale Truggy?
What ESC to get for 1/8 scale Truggy
What "MAIN" battery pack/packs to get to run the MOTOR?
What Receiver pack to get?
Servo Suggestions?
On the topic of LI-PO, Since i am going to be converting my 1/8 scale Truggy to Brushless Li-Po. What Receiver pack would you guys recommend and what "main" pack or packs would i need to run the motor? Keep in mind i know nothing about Li-Po. I already have a charger that i "hear" may charge lipo with a firmware update. I have a MRC (Model Rectifier) Super Brian 969 Pro charger. What else do i need to know? What does 2s and 3s mean when dealing with Li-Po? i know what 2000mAh means and i understand that each lipo cell holds 3.7 volts. I know nothing about balancers. How can u use a 7.4v lipo receiver pack on 6v servos and not fry the servos?
What motor to get for 1/8 scale Truggy?
What ESC to get for 1/8 scale Truggy
What "MAIN" battery pack/packs to get to run the MOTOR?
What Receiver pack to get?
Servo Suggestions?
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=4319
which drops the voltage to 6.5 V. I'm using a cheap one and it's terrible, shoots down radio range to nothing. get one that's low noise or "linear regulator" that don't have any noise
the number you also need to be concerened is the C rating. your mah rating X C rating is how much continous amp it can provide.
For the MMM i think you'll need at least 5000mah and 30C to be safe. or you can over work your lipos and kill them.
with MMM you also don't need a BEC. it has a built in switching BEC that takes up to 22.2v input
You aldo definetely want a lipo Balancing charger or balancer attachment. since you'll be charging ANY lipo at 1C rating, meaning the 5000mah ??C at 5A max. so even the cheap Tunegy 5A balancing Charger will work. Just get a Lipo Bag, and temp probe.
04-16-2009, 06:11 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
Thanks for the info, I contact MRC about my Super Brian 969 Pro charger, they told me that i can upgrade to the 977 version that will do all kinds of Li-Po stuff All i have to do is send them my charger and 43 dollars and i get instant upgrade! Apparently they do this with all their chargers, so if u ever want to upgrade just send them your old MRC charger and 43 dollars u get the latest version. pretty sweet deal. What brand battery do you guys recommend? and maybe offer a link to a good place to get them. Oh also im guessing that u need a motor mount, are all the motor mounts different or one fits all?
04-16-2009, 06:35 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
Budget conversions have their ups and downs. I don't like to do budget conversions because of buying low quality in the past has left me unsatisfied. I think if you invest in a good battery/charger, find a MMM combo and you'll be set. Worst thing you can do is go cheap on a battery...get a good battery.
04-16-2009, 09:10 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
Don't get the KD36-6XL motor from hobbycity. I had it. It runs very hot. It's powerful, but it's no better than the Hobbywing motors. The HW motors have a removeable endbell held with screws while the KD36 motor is a press-on endbell which has a chance of coming off. The HW motors are a better option as they are a bit lower kV (for more torque and less current draw), run cooler, and have the removeable endbell. If you want to stay with a low-cost motor and all, the HW motors are fine. Just don't go over 4s as I recommended.
As for a "budget" setup, the EZRun ESCs use excellent components and use equal to better output FETs to those used in the MMM. The 150A FETs are actually rated for higher current than the MMM FETs (which both come from the same mfr). The 80A FETs HEXFETs from International Rectifier, which are amongst the best FETs available (the Hexfet is IR's cash cow because they are quite good). The EZRuns do have some problems as I mentioned (issue with punch and timing settings to the extreme), but if you avoid doing those things, you should be fine. IMO, they are only "lower" than an MMM because you cannot get customer support nearly as easily as you can with Castle. Keep in mind MMMs have not been free of problems either, which is why it is on V3 now and it hasn't been out that long. Like I said, if you can afford the MMM, it is the better option if nothing else because customer support is readily available. The MMM combo also comes with the better motor. However, I can pick up 2 EZRun combos that work fine in a 1/8 truggy for the price of 1 MMM combo.
The options are listed for you, so you can make your own decision. But don't think the EZRuns are just "crap" because they're made in china. If you go by that mentality, every electronic is crap because almost all electronic components are mfr'd in china (I know, I used to be in the semiconductor mfg business).
To sum up:
HW motor better than KD36 motor.
EZRuns are comparable in performance and most quality to MMM. But fall short in customer service.
As for a "budget" setup, the EZRun ESCs use excellent components and use equal to better output FETs to those used in the MMM. The 150A FETs are actually rated for higher current than the MMM FETs (which both come from the same mfr). The 80A FETs HEXFETs from International Rectifier, which are amongst the best FETs available (the Hexfet is IR's cash cow because they are quite good). The EZRuns do have some problems as I mentioned (issue with punch and timing settings to the extreme), but if you avoid doing those things, you should be fine. IMO, they are only "lower" than an MMM because you cannot get customer support nearly as easily as you can with Castle. Keep in mind MMMs have not been free of problems either, which is why it is on V3 now and it hasn't been out that long. Like I said, if you can afford the MMM, it is the better option if nothing else because customer support is readily available. The MMM combo also comes with the better motor. However, I can pick up 2 EZRun combos that work fine in a 1/8 truggy for the price of 1 MMM combo.
The options are listed for you, so you can make your own decision. But don't think the EZRuns are just "crap" because they're made in china. If you go by that mentality, every electronic is crap because almost all electronic components are mfr'd in china (I know, I used to be in the semiconductor mfg business).
To sum up:
HW motor better than KD36 motor.
EZRuns are comparable in performance and most quality to MMM. But fall short in customer service.
04-16-2009, 09:38 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
You have to hand it to CC when it comes to customer service. Being based in USA is a big plus, but they also want to keep their customers happy. If your MMM goes up in flames, or frys, send it in and expect to have one sent back to you in a couple of weeks. Can't get much better than that. I haven't tried the HW esc's, I hear they are getting popular, but that are kinda big.
04-16-2009, 09:47 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
Yup, they're huge! There's been people who sent their HW ESCs back to HW in china, but they're slow to respond. CC definitely has the better customer service for the reasons you stated. For similar performance and quality at a considerably lower price, something has to be compromised and in this case it's customer service. Considering the price of my 80A, if it burns, oh well. I'd rather it not, but it was half the price of the MM it replaced which CC wouldn't warranty anyways since it was in a 1/8 truggy (they won't warranty the MM in a 1/10 MT either).
I'm happy with my HW setups, but I'm also considering an MMM combo for my next truck. I'm trying to decide if I want to spend double for the MMM combo as opposed to the HW combo. I have to weigh for myself the advantage of the much better customer service from CC vs. the likelihood of the HW crapping out.
I'm happy with my HW setups, but I'm also considering an MMM combo for my next truck. I'm trying to decide if I want to spend double for the MMM combo as opposed to the HW combo. I have to weigh for myself the advantage of the much better customer service from CC vs. the likelihood of the HW crapping out.
04-17-2009, 10:38 AM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
MMM esc is not that expensive.. even compared to the HW. like I said. 135 is not that high of a price to pay for good customer support and fast turn around time and proven ESC. Plus you have option to go up to 6S if want to. Built in BEC covers the extra cost.
Isn't everything manufactured in china or Korea these days? there's nothing wrong with stuff made outside of the country as long as QA system is good.
if the motor runs hot.. add a heatsink and fan, it costs 1/5th of the price.. can't expect it to run like a $150 motor.
Isn't everything manufactured in china or Korea these days? there's nothing wrong with stuff made outside of the country as long as QA system is good.
if the motor runs hot.. add a heatsink and fan, it costs 1/5th of the price.. can't expect it to run like a $150 motor.
04-17-2009, 08:21 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
In terms of what will move a truggy well, the MMM at $135 after discounts (+ shipping possibly) is quite a bit more than a $75 shipped 80A HW. If you can afford it, the MMM is a better option, but to some, that price difference may influence their decision.
I'm deciding if I want to spend $240 on the MMM combo or half that for a HW 80A combo and use the difference to pick up a 2.4GHz system. If I decide on the MMM, I'm not sure if I like the 2650kV or 2200kV better. I prefer to run 3s, which makes the 2650kV a better choice, but I'm sure the 2200kV has more than enough torque at 3s to push a truggy around. But I'd like a 2.4GHz setup too. Decisions decisions...
The KD36-6XL is a very inefficient motor and runs very hot regardless if there's a fan on it (I ran a 90mm fan on mine). It runs cooler on 3s, but still hotter than most motors. It also pulls a lot of current and stresses everything more. The hotter it gets, the more current it pulls.
The HW motors run cooler and being lower kV, draw less current and generate less heat running on either 3s or 4s. The removeable endbell is also nice in case you feel like opening it up and is less likely to blow out like the KD36s and Feigaos have a tendency to do because of their pressed-in endbells.
For a cheap motor, the HWs are a better option. Just make sure you don't run over 4s on them.
I'm deciding if I want to spend $240 on the MMM combo or half that for a HW 80A combo and use the difference to pick up a 2.4GHz system. If I decide on the MMM, I'm not sure if I like the 2650kV or 2200kV better. I prefer to run 3s, which makes the 2650kV a better choice, but I'm sure the 2200kV has more than enough torque at 3s to push a truggy around. But I'd like a 2.4GHz setup too. Decisions decisions...
The KD36-6XL is a very inefficient motor and runs very hot regardless if there's a fan on it (I ran a 90mm fan on mine). It runs cooler on 3s, but still hotter than most motors. It also pulls a lot of current and stresses everything more. The hotter it gets, the more current it pulls.
The HW motors run cooler and being lower kV, draw less current and generate less heat running on either 3s or 4s. The removeable endbell is also nice in case you feel like opening it up and is less likely to blow out like the KD36s and Feigaos have a tendency to do because of their pressed-in endbells.
For a cheap motor, the HWs are a better option. Just make sure you don't run over 4s on them.
04-18-2009, 09:15 AM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
I spared no expense on building my dream truggy. I ended up selling off my 1/10 stuff that I haven't used in a year or longer as well as some other misc hobby things.
04-21-2009, 01:04 PM
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RE: CONVERTING 1/8 Truggy to BRUSHLESS Li-Po HELP!!
I agree i also sold all my other stuff at the time for my build, go with the mamba monster combo u wont regret it, when i shop for rc stuff like this i hold customer service higher than anything as sometimes no matter what u buy breaks and when it does u want it replaced for free and fast, i bought a neu 2200kv motor right before they came out with the castle combos and las week i had the shaft on the motor snap off, i sent it in and it will get replaced and i will have it back soon, i also fried a mamba by getting it wet, not soaked but buter got inside, once again free replacement and fast, and if ur going to get a truggy it might be better for u to buy a high end used roller vs. a new cheap truggy as brushless is a strong powersource with lots of power on demand and it will wear cheaply made parts very fast here is a pic of my truggy, way too much Invested but it is reliable and i get much joy from it. motor is only thing missing but is being replaced under warranty projects like these start small but end up big. so if ur serious buy the good stuff now or cheap stuff now then the good stuff later its ur choice. its like comparing the dollar store to sears,
